Backing young and immature horses and riding them away....

R2R

R2R

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 August 2009
Messages
1,455
Visit site
My youngster looked so immature that I had to prove to my old Y/O he was rising 4 when I said he was! He honestly looked like a yearling until this spring (now he looks like an asbo teenager)

Breaking him in was the best thing I did though, I got him going over about 12 weeks last autumn and left him for 6 months from December – May, I tacked him up occasionally and went for a little hack but that was it.

He has completely come into his own this spring however, grown massively and now is a fit and healthy 5 year old. I would have had lots of trouble breaking him if he looked as good as he did now so I am glad he was slightly immature when I did.

I have to say also that my youngster had major surgery on his hock after breaking it, and everything I did was at the recommendation of my vet at Liphook.

I have a 2.5 year old on my yard that we are backing at the moment – purely because he needs a job as he is getting himself into trouble. This was at the suggestion of my vet who told me I would keep calling him out unless I gave the horse something to keep his very active brain working!! He agreed that as long as it was done with care and as little pressure as possible he would be fine and probably enjoy the work. Same thing – he is being done over the summer, will do nothing other than a tonne of long reining and really gentle hacking, then have the summer off, and probably come into work this time next year as a 3.5 year old.

Following a post in another forum, I was wondering what peoples thoughts were on this?
 
I bet you'll get a lot of negative comments but I agree with what you have done, I really believe that it depends on the horse what age they are when you break them in. Although obviously I wouldn't agree with 6 months lunging of a 2yo or regularly jumping huge jumps as a 3yo due to joint maturity but as long as you take care with them I don't see the problem.
 
A lot of people will disagree with what you did but i believe that a the horses will let you know when they are ready and thats when you do it. Ive helped break in a 7yo before for the first time because he was just so immature up untill then but also broken 2.5/3 year olds because as you said they get themselve into trouble otherwise.

Sounds to me like you have done exactly the right thing for your horses which is all we can try to do really =)
 
I backed my mare as a 3yo as she was just very immature and not growing up in anyway, only very lightly, we went long reining everywhere and she needed the muscle build up for the winter as i didnt want her stifles locking again. We went on a couple of hacks and i turned her away. She has grown up so much over the spring and looks like a proper horse now, and is mentally more mature. I had a lot of negative comments off people about it but to be honest if i hadnt i would be having a hell of a lot of problems now. I will do it this way again, although im sure others will disagree.
 
I would not sit on them, not even for gentle hacks, until they were fully 3. I think this "job to do" thing is an interesting reason, but have managed to give my young horses plenty of jobs to do without having to ride them. In fact, I backed mine at 4. As the vet thinks it's a good idea it's probably a waste of time to direct to any of the studies about the rate at which horses mature.
I want my horses to make old bones, working till the day we drop. My cob had to retire early due to arthritic changes that the vet says were most likely caused by his early backing and being ridden too young. My friend's dressage horse retired with very similar problems, he was backed at 3 and doing the things dressage horses normally do at 4 (too much). I don't see the point when you can wait another year, it's no more difficult to back a more mature horse than a baby.
 
Sorry but i do disagree with breaking and riding immature youngsters.

there are 1001 things you can do with an unruly youngster before backing them.

walks out in hand, long reining in straight lines, going to little shows, leading off another horse etc etc.

people were constantly telling me to back my youngster as a 2yro or rising 3 as he was so big (16.3hh as a 2yro) or else he would be too bolshy and strong and would be a nightmare to back.

its b*****ks! if you need to back a horse young because you are scared it will get too strong you shouldn't have a youngster.

if you have an unruly youngster instead of backing early do things as above or turn it out with a load of other youngsters for a year.
i did that with a 2yro a few years ago- she was a pain in the bum and bullying the others, bolshy to do things with so she went 300 miles away for 7 months to live out in a huge herd.
came back as a 3 and 1/2yro a lot more mature and backing her was a total doddle.
 
Mine got his first job when he was 3 -- walking in hand
At 4 he still looked immature, so he got a new job -- long reining
In the February of his 5th year (his birthday is May) I backed him as he finally started to look like a real cob - solid like a brick!! - hacked him out until end March very gently then started schooling. And within three months he's doing intro dressage and winning (working prelim at home), show jumping nicely. Looking at him, he has a lot more growing and filling out to do so not gonna push like if he was a warmblood or something more mature! In my mind there's no such thing as lost time as long as you are doing the right work on your way to your goal.
 
Backing them is one thing, riding them is another, I think people jump to the wrong conclusions sometimes on this subject and there has to be a clear difference and other peoples understandings between the two.
 
Kenzo said:
Backing them is one thing, riding them is another, I think people jump to the wrong conclusions sometimes on this subject and there has to be a clear difference and other peoples understandings between the two.
Click to expand...

Absolutely.:)

But there must be a line between, as you say, backing and riding proper, is backing JUST getting into the saddle and leaving it at that, or a bit of walking as well? Another thread I think perhaps.

I live in North America, it is standard practise here, horses are shown under saddle at 3, whether I approve or not is irrelevant. It doesn't shock me to the core to hear someone say that their horse was backed at 2.
 
The racehorses are broken in at 18months and my youngster (Paint x TB) who's a late foal (May) by my terms but "normal" in the out of racing world has been broken and ridden away and she's 2. I started lunging (shock horror!) and long reining her last October and she happily accepts a full set of tack. Must admit though all mine are broken in with an exercise saddle which is terribly light so they don't ever have anymore than 9-91/2 stone on their backs. I am a firm believer in breaking them early and pottering about. The filly isn't required to work in an outline or anything just a stroll around the farm/lanes. I think it's horses for courses and wouldn't gasp if someone told me they broke their horse in at 7. I just wouldn't offer to ride it away for them!!!
 
From reading your posts you seem to be a sensible & knowledgeable person, so do what you think is best, you & your vet know the horse better than anybody else. You're only talking about a backing him not taking him for a full season hunting!
I'm a big believer in treating horses as individuals what works for one isn't going to work for another.
I didn't start my mare until she was 5, the ground was very hard that summer so I only worked her for a short time & then turned her away, so she didn't do very much at all until she was nearly 6. It worked for her as she was physically very immature, although mentally she was ready.
 
I really do think it depends on the horse.

I usually back ours in the spring of their third year to the stage where they do about 10 minutes ridden, mainly in walk but able to trot and sometimes canter. They are then turned away for the summer and start light work again in the autumn for about six weeks before being turned away for the winter.

However, we backed one in the autumn of this second year as he was built like the proverbial brick 5h1t house but another wasn't done until he was nearly five as although he was tall (17.2 HH) he was physically immature.
 
I bought my horse (one in my siggy) in the autumn as a 2year old. I bought her straight out of the field, although she had been handled. One of the first things I did with her with her (I was 17 and although I had had a couple of just backed 4yr olds had never had anything unbroken) was send her to my instructor who introduced her to tack, lunging, long reining and got her to the point where you could get on and off her. She took all this completly in her stride took about 2 weeks in total. I had previously spent time getting her use to the stable, being tied up, leading, being groomed...general messing around.

I then turned her away for the winter and re-backed her the following summer when she was 3 and a half. I was at uni so did a bit over the summer and then she had breaks whilst I was away, seemed to work fine. As a 4 year old she still wasn't in hard work, did a few competitions a couple of BYEH classes etc. She is also pretty accident prone in the field so gives herself compulsory holidays!

She is a 15.2 TB x connie, we never had to push her mentally or physically she just took it all in her stride. She never looked really immature or went through a leggy/gangly phase. She is 8 now, I still don't feel like I have pushed her at all and she is quite happily jumping BE novices. If she was a big warmblood though I would definately have left her longer to grow up. I have worked with a few that are so big and uncoordinated that they definately couldn't cope with any kind of ridden work until they were at least 4. I think it really does depend on the horse, every case should be treated as an individual/
 
Don't get this 'quick, before they're too big' thinking. They're still big and strong at 3yrs old (they will always be bigger and stronger than you), and even more unpredictable as babies.

If you can't back them a year later, once they're more mature and physically ready, then you're ground work and prep isn't up to scratch.

I loan a rising 7 yr old who I broke at 5.5yrs old. He wasn't broken earlier because he was being immature and silly. 2yrs extra to grow up and mature did him the world of good and made him much easier, not harder.
 
there is a lady at my yard who backed a horse only just turned 2, though all she did was get on it and walk around and then turned it away. i still would not get on one till 3!!

My youngster i have just backed is 3 and we haven't ridden him for long at all but he is walking, trotting and tinsey canters and is now being turned away till next march/ april so he can grow up and mature.
 
My 3 year old has been lightly backed this past month or so...sat on literally and plodded round. He does long reining and loads of ground work but that is it. By the end of the summer (Sept) I hope he will be hacking out for 15 minutes (walk) 2 or 3 times a week, before being turned away for the winter.

He still has lots of filling out to do and needs a lot more bomb proofing and general exposure to the big wide world.

At the moment he does 4 days a week Friday to Monday of groundwork long reining and general handling coming in for a bit of playing with and then spends 3 days in the field 24/7. I think the 4 days of consistant ground work followed by 3 days of chill out time is doing him the world of good. Time to learn as well as time to be a horse.
 
Everybody obviously has very different views on this subject and i think each horse should be judged as an individual but i personally wouldn't back any of mine until they were 4. My youngest was 4 at the end of April & everytime someone asks me how old she is they say 'oh, is she ridden now then?' and when i say no, i'm backing her this summer they look at me as if i'm stupid and dont know what i'm doing. :rolleyes: I'm fed up of explaining she's an immature 4 (when i had her at 3 i swore she was a yearling and her passport was wrong until i found her breeder who confirmed age) and wasn't handled at all until she'd just gone 3 so i'm in no rush to back her, after all she's not going anywhere so whats the hurry? She is a VERY quick learner so it has been tempting but i thought the risks outweighed the benefits so all i've done is introduce tack and get her used to lunging and long reining with saddle on. She's been turned away for the last few weeks and will be backed properly next month. The only thing i completely disagree with is how young TB's going into racing are backed. I've seen too many that can only cope with light work by their early teens & have had to be retired completely by mid teens.
 
Blaise said:
The only thing i completely disagree with is how young TB's going into racing are backed. I've seen too many that can only cope with light work by their early teens & have had to be retired completely by mid teens.
Click to expand...

I am on the fence about this, it isn't going to stop whilst there is so much money in the industry, so if a horse is started as sympathetically and prepared as thoroughly as possible that is the best we can do for them. I worked at a breaking yard with Tb yearlings. We didn't just sling a saddle and jock up on them, jam them between older horses and take them to the gallops, I have spoken to an incredible number of people who think that is all we did with them. Not so, honestly.

They were started traditionally, and most came to us already lunging and at least bitted. Timing varied, some were easier to start than others, if a horse needed longer then it got it. They could all w/t/c in the school, strike off on the correct lead etc. By the time they went on to the trainers they could work in front, upsides or anywhere they were placed on the gallops, go around corners, would jump off and start from stalls.
 
Last edited:
enfys said:
I worked at a breaking yard with Tb yearlings. We didn't just sling a saddle and jock up on them, jam them between older horses and take them to the gallops, I have spoken to an incredible number of people who think that is all we did with them. Not so, honestly.

They were started traditionally, and most came to us already lunging and at least bitted. Timing varied, some were easier to start than others, if a horse needed longer then it got it. They could all w/t/c in the school, strike off on the correct lead etc. By the time they went on to the trainers they could work in front, upsides or anywhere they were placed on the gallops, go around corners, would jump off and start from stalls.
Click to expand...

i don't think Blaise is worried about how well backed/broken they are- more the fact that it is done when they are yearlings and can do all you say above before their 2nd birthday.
 
millitiger said:
i don't think Blaise is worried about how well backed/broken they are- more the fact that it is done when they are yearlings and can do all you say above before their 2nd birthday.
Click to expand...

I understood that, I also understand that until/unless 2 yo racing is banned it will always happen, nothing to be done about it. There will be wastage, it is regrettable and a crying shame, but that is racing for you. Too much money at stake for worrying about little things like what the horse is going to be capable of 10 years down the road if it doesn't make it to stud.
Incidentally, the Arab (as in arabian horses) racing industry in the UK has a minimum racing age of 4.
 
Farrierlover said:
I bet you'll get a lot of negative comments but I agree with what you have done, I really believe that it depends on the horse what age they are when you break them in. Although obviously I wouldn't agree with 6 months lunging of a 2yo or regularly jumping huge jumps as a 3yo due to joint maturity but as long as you take care with them I don't see the problem.
Click to expand...

I quite agree. The sooner the better, but as above would not do too much.
 
Just to recap, there is a young horse aged 2.5 on Op's yard that is being backed and will be hacking out lightly, I based my reply on that. Personally I think that is wrong, and apart from anything else, unnecessary.
Re starting quarter horses and race horses obscenely young, it's a damn shame, but if some want to do it then nobody is going to stop them. Some members of the travelling fraternity get their baby horses working at a young age as well. Just because it's done and accepted by some, doesn't mean it's right though does it? "Breaking" them in sounds a good way to describe it to me. Just because it may be what has always been done doesn't mean it's the only way, or the right way, to do things. Knowledge and science move on. There is no need for a baby horse to carry 9 or 10 stone, or for it to pull a trap.
It's been pretty definitively proved that young horses skeletons all mature at the same rate, regardless of breed. Some breeds look as if they mature more early than others, but the vital infrastructure that is the skeleton isn't maturing any faster.
If you're interested here is an article. I'll just warn you, in the past when I've posted it people have started to pick it apart without reading it properly, just skimming for the bits they found interesting. You might not agree with it, but if you read it the author is pretty thorough and anticipates most questions in the piece. http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf
 
The only thing i completely disagree with is how young TB's going into racing are backed. I've seen too many that can only cope with light work by their early teens & have had to be retired completely by mid teens.[/QUOTE]

I think this is a harsh statement as I am sure there are many eventers, show jumpers and dressage horses who have to be retired early due to the pressures they are put under and are only suitable for light hacking/companion in their teens. Racing is no different. The flat TB's are fed/bred to be early types and the trainers know what they are doing as if they are weak, need time, the work is backed off or the individual is turned away. I would almost go as far to say that dressage horses have it harder due to the degree of collection that is demanded from them and sometimes at a young age. Be it 5 or 6 but that's comparable to a 3yr old TB due to rate of growth/development. Also it's been proven through studies (with TB's) that working a horse younger can strengthen/condition bone rather than leaving them in the field until they are 4 and then cracking on.
 
My Boy is 3 in October and so far this year all we have done is a little lunging and longreining (probably averages about 10 mins a week if that) mainly as I was having handling problems and I felt he needed something to think about. He did and loved it!

I have put a saddle on him and he is bitted and I have even leant over his back. all I want to achieve this year is pretty much just that. get him accepting my weight. The rest I will do next spring when he will be 3.5 and after which he will be LIGHTLY ridden away and perhaps turned away for the winter.

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable hacking a 2.5 year old out. its just a bit too young.
 
There is a three year old on our yard thats cantering and jumping. To me she looks like a yearling/2 year old still and I would probably not even have backed her let alone all that work! Mine is 4 now, we did back him and hack last summer but he is incredibly mature for his age - he at 3 looked more grown up than his field companion does now at 4. And now he is 4, you have to be reasonably knowledgable (ie looking at muscle development etc) to know he is still only a 4 year old. And incidentally the 4 year old field mate was only backed this spring as he wasn't ready last year.
I think it totally depends on the horse when you start them, I personally wouldn't do it before 3rd birthday with any horse, would always rest them for 3 months + between 3 and 4 years old, olny hacked him as a 3 year old and didn't canter at all, and have literally just started tiny showjumps now he is 4. Oh and he is having a four week holiday now and will have another 6 - 8 weeks over winter!
 
Nothing can be fed to be an "early type". They bulk up, but it still doesn't alter the fact that they are out there and working hard before their young bones are ready for it.
Is it hard to accept that some horses are broken in too young, because they are commodities and it doesn't matter if they stay sound into old age? Some do, some don't, so what?
 
I agree with breaking horses at about 3, but then turning them away. I was critised by an owner who i backed a horse for, and rode away as a 4 year old, because i didn't work it hard enough in schooling sessions, like its new rider, although I was doing novice dressage tests as a 4yr old. Even if the horse is physically strong at that age they have a short attention span so there is no point schooling for hours. I tried to point that out but it didn't go down well! :(
 
I have wondered about this as my new pony seems to have a very active mind. He is smart - figures things out quickly and he IS a bit of a menace. I have been leading him out - as has my mate but he is VERY strong and will tank off with you. He seems to need something to do. So I have thought of starting him off later in the year. Keep him thinking.
 
There is just simply so much that you can do with a horse to keep it's mind engaged that doesn't involve sitting on the horse that I just don't accept all this stuff about needing to back a horse early just to keep it's mind active.

You can lead in hand - in all variety of situations - you can pony the horse out - you can take it places - you can get it going through water - take it swimming if you like! - you can do pole work in the school - teach him to loose school - do liberty work - the list goes on!!

If you want to back a horse early for commercial reasons (i.e. racing yards) that's one thing - at least they don't pretend that it's done for a reason other than the money.

If you want a horse that will last 'till his old age, IMHO, backing at just 2.5 years is crazy. Wait another year -and do other stuff in the meantime to engage the brain.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top