bad back lump kissing spines?

twinkle

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well Amber is 16.1 friesian mare 7 years old i have had her since she was 2 she was backed when she was 4 and turned away for about half a year and then i started to ride her mostly hacking with some schooling and i now ride her well not a moment but normally 6 days a week with hacking schooling, long reining!

Amber has had a couple of minor falls in the field in the years i have had her can be quiet clumsy with back legs and slips.but nothing to serious that back lady couldnt deal with she has reagular back lady she has never had any kind of bad back but gets tight shoulders.

i took Amber on a riding holiday in sept and we had a bad fall on the road slipped and took a while to get up as coulnt get up road was to slippery
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really horrible but came away with only a few minor cuts called back lady as soon as we got hiome a she came have a look at her a week after to let brusing die down when she came down amber had buggerd herslef done her pelvis and possibly torn a muscle in her shoulder was very sore she had weeks off in this time i moved yards and amber went out in field and got very badly beaten up with nice kick to back of leg (back leg) and fell over done her pelvis agian so lots of trauma. had back lady agian and this takes us to last weekend
she ha found two nice lumps on her spine one just behind were her saddle would fit and one a bit further behind that she didnt seem to worried about it and im now ment to be working her up back to work slowly but she did also mention that if she start setting bad bucking not wanting to be tacked up then call vet she also mentioned kissing spines can be caused my trauma so got me all worried and called the vet and he is due to come out saturday really worried tryed to take come piccys but dont really show up well.

have read a few posts on kising spines as i no a few of you have had to deal with ks and they are really helpful what do you think this could be any ideas?

if it is what do i do? cant believe it my poor baby
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twinkle

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found this on debradley post
list of signs of ks


Won't stand still to be girthed.
Stiff picking back legs up for hoof picking or farrier
Head carriage all over the place (up, down, in, out shake it all about!!)
Running on the fore.
Couldn't pick up canter, had to run into it, then couldn't maintain it.
Big bucks after landing a jump.
Quite often when going into canter would get the most horrendous corkscrew buck that just sent you flying out the side door for no apparent reason, especially if you were asking for it on a bend (where you should be asking for it).
Towards the end when she was really bad, if you put her on the lunge in canter her back legs would just bunny hop and even disunite them come back to bunny hopping.
When really uncomfortable would back up, rear up and send you out the back door. That was easier as you could just sort of slide off rather than be projected out the front.
Didn't like to stand still at halt.
Pawing the ground with her front feet.
Tail swishing (a lot)
Now and again generally when not so fit would have a bit of a funny action on her left hind leg; almost as if the tendon was hooking.
A bit nervous and flighty, didn't really need any leg contact at all.
Towards the end she looked like two different horses, a bit like a cut n shut. Very muscled in front, good topline, nothing behind.
Difficulty standing square, always wanting to rest one back leg (didn't matter which).

amber has awlays been funny with picking back feet out
trys to eat me when doing girth but not all the time
head carriage when riding up down awlays trys to tuck head in to chest
running on the fore
always found canter difficult (but lots of friesians do)
has never bucked with me on her and have never seen her buck in the field apart from this week every day this week she has bucked and galloped off
 

crabbymare

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Looking at things from a positive direction, a lot of mares can pull faces when they are girthed up, also the head carriage and running on the forehand could be schooling issues. A lot of Friesians are built in a way that tucking the head on the chest is easy for them which does not help!!

Main thing would seem that she does not buck which the majotity of ks horses will do ( and can be very spectacular!). Bucking in the field is their way of playing and letting off steam, so that could be down to her enjoying herself, and if you have just had the back person out she could have freed off a muscle so she feels a lot looser now and is making the most of it!!
I would think she probably does not have it., but is there anyone at your yard or your instructor who is experienced and can have a look at your flat work for you? I know a few people in the Essex area that I can pm you if you want help.
 

twinkle

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havent been having my lesson since she done it, as havent been riding her to sore! the issue with her head is exactly what i thought a friesina thing and same with the on the forehand these issues were getting much better before the accident with my lesson (got a new instructor whos brill) but as back lady has told me to slowly work her up i have hacked her out twice this week on a long rein and she is really really tucking her head in to chest even with a loose rein so when i see the list i just though she does that.

and with the bucking thing aswel honestly i awlays watch her in the field when she runs down and she has never bucked before but has been doing it every dauy this week as if she was sore!

god i just feel like a parnoid wreck to be honest!
 

BethH

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KS can indeed be caused by trauma but one of the best ways to tell is if you ask your back lady to get your horse to arch her back. A usual symptom of KS is that as the bones cross or are close to crossing there is no flexibility in the affected area of spine so a lack of upwards flexion can be a sign and also panic attacks about having to go downhill, especially short, sharp ones. It would take time to develop if trauma, with symptoms gradually getting worse, a lack of muscling or muscle degeneration, especially on the back end can also be seen as affected horses commonly lack the ability to come through from behind if that makes sense. Also increasing behavioural problems can occur that make your horse seem incredibly over-sensitive and spooky, just generally a complete handful in every respect!

The only way a vet can tell is costly, in my case it involved scintigraphy and ultrasound followed by x-rays, but your back lady would have a feeling of not being able to fix things if there was a problem and if she is any good will recommend referral to a vet.

Hope that helps.
 

debradley

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Hi DeBradley here. Please don't take my list as a definative list to diagnose KS. Many horses show different symptoms with KS and Honey infact also showed more than that; it's just I couldn't go on forever, some other horses may show none of these at all, but there are some that seem to be quite characteristic. As Beth says increasing behavioural problems making the horse appear over-sensitive and spooky seems to be the most regular, but that can take quite a few months even years to become apparent!

Amber seems to have had quite a few accidents and if you had quite a serious fall on the road in September that put her pelvis out again she could still well be splinting that injury whilst her muscles build back up to support it.

Please don't panic there are lots of other more minor things that it could be and maybe she just needs time to strengthen and carry herself properly again before she settles down.

It was my physio who finally decided that it was an underlying problem with Honey (namely her back) because no matter how many times he came out to try to improve the freedom in her back legs her back would be stiff. He'd loosen that off and two weeks later he'd be back to square one. He then referred me back to the vet rather than keep wasting my money having him treat her.
Also, there was no visual evidence (lumps or bumps) on Honey's back to indicate a problem; just incorrect muscling and an incorrect way of working, and an attitude from hell.

I hope things work out for you, and am hoping that perhaps just a patient and sensible fitting regime after Amber's pelvis being out will do the trick. Please try not to panic too much and follow your instinct - you know your horse best.
 

Grumbledor

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I have noticed a few posts from people on here with horses with KS, suspected KS and horses that have just had the op and I just wanted to share some optimism.

The horse I have on loan (have know him since the day he was born) had a kissing spine. He was diagnosed after bucking in the school when we first broke him at 3 years. He had the operation at Liphook at 3 1/2 and had 8 months rest. I then got back on him in the school. To begin with he didn't want to go forward and still bucked, however we persevered in the school and kept hacking (which he enjoyed).

This was Last November, he's now 5 and I'm riding him 6 times a week and he's wonderful! A bit slow to mature but he's now moving forwards well and his movement is really improving with maturity and fitness (He's a big warmblood gelding which I think attributes to his slow maturity!). We have done an unaffilliated dressage which we won
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and jumping at home which we both really enjoy. Aiming to affilliate dressage next year and go out and do some jumping too. You never know what's round the corner with horses so I'm touching wood as I write this but hoping I can send out some positive vibes to those of you with horses with KS or potential KS
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twinkle

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thanks guys will let you no how we get on with vet tomorrow!

i must say you do all make me feel better you all so positive a bout this so glad that all of yours are doing well after there kissing spines op its been so informative reading your old posts more than anything i could find on the web thanks
 

debradley

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Hi Twinkle will keep my fingers crossed for you; let us know how you get on. If it turns out to be ks it's not the end of the world. I'm more inclined to think that your lady has just had a really rotten time of it and is feeling battered and sore after all her events, but your vet is the bes.t one to listen to. I think the promising thing that you said in your original post were she was getting better with schooling is a really positive sign! Good luck
 

twinkle

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well im smiling from ear to ear just got back from stables and vet gave her the all clear! said its nothing to worry about probly just a little brusig from the fall done lots of proding , poking and streches and he said she has a very good back!

im just so happy and relieved thanks so much for your kindness you got me fully in its going to be ok mood!

hope all your horses are doing fine

thanks Kelly
 

debradley

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Smiling from ear to ear for you. Just give your girl lots of TLC and be patient glad she's going to be ok. I mean if you'd put you pelvis out recently and then some bully beat you up, you wouldn't feel 100% either I doubt.

Really glad everythings worked out for you.

De
 
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