Bad horses or Bad owners

[cassie summers]

What do you think is that true i do believe in most cases a problem horse/pony is man made especially when i look at some of the horse owners around these days though saying that my instructor had an absolute pig of a horse who she got at 2 and he had been out with a herd and he never changed his way and she is great with horses so in the end she sold him back to the breeder but apart from that the problems i see with horses are some of the owners

 

[spike123]

mine was definitely man made by the people who didn't treat him right. It took me 6mths to be able to handle him reasonably safely and begin to bond with him and even now over 3 yrs later not many people want to handle him let alone ride him as he will still be an idiot with anyone he doesn't know well or trust

 

[*hic*]

Most problem horses are manmade, however I do believe that some horses are just born plain nasty.

 

[Starbucks]

Yup! I think a lot of horses are let down because their owners are a bit useless.

I do think you get the odd bad-un! My dad bought a horse from a fairly reputable dealer (and friend) who informed him - it wasn't a strait horse! He never was TBH!! With a lot of struggle he ended up being a decent hunter and did some dressage. Sold him to a dressage home at one point - it did not go well!! Ended up buying him back or they were going to have him shot! Dad packed in so I took over, he still reared a lot but I was young enough to think he was cool and not scary! I do miss him. Would probably have never got the chance to hunt something so quality and talented and he not been a naughty boy!

 

[Welshie Squisher]

Totally agree, nearly all horses with challenging behaviour have been around incompetent humans, or cruel ones or even well meaning fools.
It's very sad as it's nearly always the horse that pays the price

I think there is the odd rare one that no matter what will always be difficult.

 

[Shantara]

Ned's bad behaviour was definitely man-made. He can be such a sweet and caring horse most of the time, but other times he can be almost dangerous. He doesn't have a mean bone in his body, he is just scared, frustrated or doesn't understand.
I hate what they've done to him, he often shows a spark of potential, but then realises he's come out of his shell and shrinks right back in.
I feel so sorry for man-made bad horses

 

[LouS]

All man-made, no horse is born "bad", a horse may have a more difficult temperament but its not the horse's fault it ends up in incompetent hands. They're such innocent, forgiving creatures it annoys me when people humanize them.

 

[cassie summers]

i only asked as i have over the many years i have owned horses witnessed many a bad horse owner not bad in the sense of cruelty but just plain ignorance and foolishness and yesterday made a random statement about no bad horses just bad owners at the yard which raised a few eyebrows but i will always say it how i see it

 

[tallyho!]

Absolutely no way can you say a bad horse is because of a bad owner!!! There's some horrors out there!

How naive!!!

I believe a good horse can be spoiled by a humans, and a bad horse can be improved.

However, there are some bad horses born out there, a good owner would do the right thing and a bad owner would sell it on!!

 

[tallyho!]

All man-made, no horse is born "bad", a horse may have a more difficult temperament but its not the horse's fault it ends up in incompetent hands. They're such innocent, forgiving creatures it annoys me when people humanize them.

What ARE you talking about??? Choose you words more carefully...

 

[Chestnuttymare]

definitely man made. my mare was an emotional wreck with so many problems. once you scratched the surface tho it was a different story. After the work was done and the trust established she is the most amazing horse.

 

[LouS]

A horse isn't a human, it does not plot and decide to be "bad". Horses react to pain, discomfort and past experience. If a horse is aggressive or dangerous I guarantee there is a reason. No I won't choose my words more carefully, how dare I have an opinion.

 

[tallyho!]

Why can't people just accept that there are some **** horses out there?

Hell, I've known a few!

Also, why can't some people accept that if they are having a bad time, then it could well be because they ahve the WRONG horse - nothing to do with temperament... but a bad match.

 

[Archina]

My fave saying i was told when i was younger and i still stand by it "Its never the horses fault, but the riders" True about 99.9% of the time!!

 

[Shantara]

Why can't people just accept that there are some **** horses out there?

Hell, I've known a few!

Also, why can't some people accept that if they are having a bad time, then it could well be because they ahve the WRONG horse - nothing to do with temperament... but a bad match.

I agree and disagree..
I don't think there's such a think as a horse that has been born bad, it's the world around us that shapes everyone...horses and people alike. We can choose to get over it or choose to let it turn us nasty.

I do agree about being mis-matched though, I couldn't get along with my friends 'perfect' horse. She was everything I usually like in a horse, but we didn't see eye to eye about SOMETHING. I also usually wouldn't even get on a horse like Ned, but for some reason I can get enough of him.

 

[LouS]

Why can't people just accept that there are some **** horses out there?

Hell, I've known a few!

Also, why can't some people accept that if they are having a bad time, then it could well be because they ahve the WRONG horse - nothing to do with temperament... but a bad match.

Because in my opinion they only become that way from incompetent handling/training or pain/discomfort/fear. If a horse is particularly challenging/flighty/clever/evasive/whatever then they need someone who can train and deal with them properly. Dangerous/aggressive/"bad" horses are created by their life experience.

Also a lot of horses I'm sure have chronic pain issues that is never addressed because they just put up with it, I have seen this so many times, they can be very stoic creatures.

I'm not saying horses will never try it on, of course they do, but they are not bad in the human sense of being bad, they are incapable of that kind of thought process. They don't sit in the field plotting against people, but if a horse bites and someone jumps away scared every time, then its probably going to do it again and learn it can control people, so someone has essentially trained that horse to be aggressive. Horses are living in a human world and for them to be safe they have to be trained properly to accept humans are in charge.

 

[tallyho!]

Have you never observed a herd of horses?

There's is always the herd witch/ass! no, I'm sorry but You are humanising horses in thinking they are all benevolent creatures. My arse.

Horses can be just as nasty as some humans and I have seen a few nasty ones in my time.

Look, simple fact is, some horses just naturally like humans and some dont. some "get it" and some dont. The job of the human is to recognise a good one for training and to get rid of one that isn't... the majority are worth keeping.

A nasty horse is a nasty horse... you can teach it to CONTROL itself but thats about it.

 

[Starbucks]

Because in my opinion they only become that way from incompetent handling/training or pain/discomfort/fear. If a horse is particularly challenging/flighty/clever/evasive/whatever then they need someone who can train and deal with them properly. Dangerous/aggressive/"bad" horses are created by their life experience.

Also a lot of horses I'm sure have chronic pain issues that is never addressed because they just put up with it, I have seen this so many times, they can be very stoic creatures.

I'm not saying horses will never try it on, of course they do, but they are not bad in the human sense of being bad, they are incapable of that kind of thought process. They don't sit in the field plotting against people, but if a horse bites and someone jumps away scared every time, then its probably going to do it again and learn it can control people, so someone has essentially trained that horse to be aggressive. Horses are living in a human world and for them to be safe they have to be trained properly to accept humans are in charge.

LouS I would be interested in your opinions on my " bad horse", the one I mentioned earlier in the thread. I guess his trick was "rear if I don't want to do something" We got him going with hunting and dressage, XC was never his thing (often wouldn't set off) and he'd do one round of SJing, but would refuse and rear on the next! He could jump like a stag, hence his good hunting, but the minute you asked him to go away from the other horses, or the hounds, he'd be the same. He wasn't frightened, or in pain, he just did exactly what he pleased! We learned to live with it, but he was a lucky boy! Had he fallen into the wrong hands he could have been shot quite young.

 

[MeganLindsx]

I will put my hands up and say that some if not most of my horses problems are my fault and I now fully admit it (and feel extremely bad for it) but i have learnt from my mistakes. I think owners should look into every possibility of a horses problem being because of pain or discomfort and not just blamming the horse. But I will also say that horses can be stubbon, strong and rude sometimes and that can be because they just have never learnt manners or aren't very trainable.

But there is nothing worse then a horse that knows they are stronger then you or a horse that isn't afraid of anything!

 

[MeganLindsx]

Why can't people just accept that there are some **** horses out there?

Hell, I've known a few!

Also, why can't some people accept that if they are having a bad time, then it could well be because they ahve the WRONG horse - nothing to do with temperament... but a bad match.

I totally agree! Yes some horses are in pain or discomfort and yes some horses haven't been handled properly but YES some horses are nasty and as I said- once they know they are stronger then you then I don't think a monty roberts halter or vet will do it!

 

[CatStew]

When I first had my boy he was quite bolshy to handle. He didn't have any 'character' when ridden either and felt like a machine, not a living thing. I bit of consistency with him has worked wonders and he's a little superstar now! I've only had him 3 months aswell

 

[Capriole]

Mostly man made, but Ive known a colt who was a total toerag from the time he was born...

 

[Oldenburg]

Sadly agree man made most of the time!! But you do get the odd horse who is horrid nature!!

 

[SophieLouBee]

There are many factors that can affect a horses behaviour, it's unfair to say that all of it is due to human interference. Hormones, reactions to pain, reactions to anxiety, brain diseases, changes in natural forage, poisoning and so on. Natural instinct could also be included.

One particular colt I used to deal with, a true horror all the time with everyone, he made no exceptions. Always well cared for in all respects, balanced and varied life, but with a stable routine, what you'd say as the perfect life for him. Always handled by competent people etc etc. It could have been 'just his way' but it could have been his testosterone levels, who would know unless he was gelded, and even then, you couldn't be sure.

 

[Enfys]

Mostly man made, but Ive known a colt who was a total toerag from the time he was born...

Had a filly like that, she came into the world angry We had her checked for all the obvious stuff, nothing wrong with her, just plain didn't like anyone - even her Mom.

 

[Ladydragon]

However, there are some bad horses born out there, a good owner would do the right thing and a bad owner would sell it on!!

This...

A horse isn't a human, it does not plot and decide to be "bad". Horses react to pain, discomfort and past experience. If a horse is aggressive or dangerous I guarantee there is a reason. No I won't choose my words more carefully, how dare I have an opinion.

No, of course it's not... But kids don't tend to plot and decide to grow up as blight on society either... Some are products of their environment (handling) and some literally are 'bad' - depending on how someone views 'bad' as a concept... Whether it be identifiably genetic, medical or just 'whatever' - some less than savoury animal individuals aren't solely the product of their human interactions IMO...

 

[tabithakat64]

I think the vast majority of 'bad' horses are made due to their life experience at the hands of humans. The others are more than likely 'bad' due to pain/illness.

I don't really believe that horses are born 'bad', maybe the occassional one in several thousand.

 

[traceyann]

All four have came to me due to being problems not sure their all human error cob was major bully and knew how to scared his owner even at the age of three. WB the same big bully and 17 hand scared his owner TB reared badly human error i think. Spanish horse man made abuse I do think owners can spoil horses by being to soft and not having rules.

 

[Lynnskatz]

Well i can only go off experience and my mare was deemed Dangerous, unpredictable, and should be pts, ive had her 1 year and she is the most amazing horse ive ever owned, and has never shown any signs of this behaviour

 

[QueenOfCadence]

I don't believe you get bad horses, just like I don't believe you get bad people.

(Now I'm going to go full blown hippy on your arses)
When we (horses and humans) are born into this earth we aren't born malicious or hateful, circumstances shape us into what we become - everyone born is a clean slate, and what is written there is never by their own hand. I guarantee you that if you walked into a prison today and just asked some of their prisoners about what happened to them in their past, they will give you an answer which you wont forget (either they were bullied, or their parents were alcoholics/dealers/addict, maybe their dad beat them or their mom abandoned them and left them on the streets). The prison cells are full of the results of OUR society.

I believe it's the same with horses, of course everyone is born with a personality but I believe it's a GOOD personality, the bad starts to shine through depending on the handling. Bad horses become bad because of bad experiences/owners.

I personally own a "bad" horse who was in danger of being shot himself by his previous owners, tried to kill me daily in the beginning but we came to an understanding and he is now (for the most part) sweet as a lamb...

Coming back to the whole "clean slate" thing, we too often think we can cure these people/horses, but unfortunately what has been written can't always bee erased

And that's my 2 cents worth
Sorry for the hippiness, I do apologize