bad manners

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_Libby_

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a young girl on my yard has recently bought a gelding who is 8 yrs old. she is stables opposite me so asks for help at times.

to ride the pony is perfect and she does well on him, however he barges in the stable, and is a nightmare to lead.
When he decides he doesnt want to go somewhere or is walking along he will put his head down and run off. This means the girl cant take him out the stable as he drags her or gets loose. Her dad who is obviously stronger leads the pony with rope over nose, however quite often it does the same with him and gets loose. They are thinking of selling the pony as their daughter cant work with it outside the stable, and when it takes off it is dangerous.

any suggestions as to how this can be cured? I advised to lead it in a bride however the pony is like a little train and still manages to get away with a bit in its mouth
 
Has an adult handled the pony at all, just thinking that an adult would have more strength than a young girl. Might be the way to teach the pony some manners?
 
yeah her dad handles it as its too dangerous for the teenager to do so. Also myself and a friend have handled it after it pulled her mother right off her feet. We gave it a good hard yank and pulled its head round as it started to run and managed to keep hold of it. It seems to be if you can catch in the the first few steps and pulls its head back you have a chance but if it starts to run off you are as well just letting go.
 
I agree ground work may be the way forward however would control halter be stong enough to hold it?

when it trys to run do you think its best to try to hold on or just let it go?
 
have they tried using a bridle to lead it? its got some very bad manners and has learnt to get away with it, i wouls lead it from a bridle with a lunge line so if it did pull at least i'd have the length of the lunge line to get it back rather than very cheeky pony getting loose!!! a be nice headcollar might help too?
 
I would do lots and lots of groundwork with the pony. And get someone experienced in to help if necessary. Definitely don't go down the chifney route, as in inexperienced hands they are lethal. These should only be used in certain situations and not as a "fix all".

Kelly Marks's book Perfect Manners is good to read all about groundwork.

Would be a shame to see a pony who is nice to ride being let go when with a little bit of work, some kind of pressure halter or Dually and some outside help if necessary he could be the perfect pony for her.
 
thanks for the replies.

Its a hard one to figure out the owners think the pony is scared/ nervous but to me its just plain bad manners, the pony has obviously been let away with this for a long time.
 
When he runs off, where does he go?
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As others have said, needs regular groundwork and then consistent application of these frameworks. The horse needs to learn to move away from pressure on the ground. But it's important that the handler releases pressure the instant the horse does the right thing.
I wouldn't want a bargy horse that dominates my space. This needs sorting. Try to find yourself someone like one of the Monty Robert's associates to show you groundwork principles.
 
We had a pony like this, suddenly he would just go, it was his one fault and either a bridle or a pressure halter stopped him.
 
Most important thing is recognising when the pony is about to go and then doing something about it before it can escape. There is ALWAYS a split second before the decision is made to p1ss off and it may be possible to yank its head round before it sets its neck against the handler.
 
I definitely agree with the groundwork principle as people have mentioned. Also, the Monty Roberts halter (comes with 'how to use' dvd) has worked miracles with a few bargy babies I know. Ponies are the cheekiest aren't they?!!
 
i have a pressure halter (although not the monty roberts one - the richard maxwell one is better as it's made with thinner rope and is harsher) but by the sounds of it this pony will proberbly ignor this as well.

i have a formerly bargy pony (ISH x cob) and the only thing that worked on him is a chiffeney. No pony will pull you over with one of those, if the kid is too inexperienced to use is at first get someone else to use it and show her how to use it properly. I would definatly use a chiffeney on this pony by the sounds of it, garenteed not to pull you over with one of those in his gob!
 
I have a pony like this - takes no notice of the usual restraints. I keep promising myself to take her in hand. I would recommend (as a temporary measure) using a long lead rope on him. It gives you that extra second or two if he makes off, to swing his head round.
 
I was going to suggest a chifney, but then was worried if it was going to be used by people who didn't understand how careful you had to be with them. Mind you, the pony would probably not misbehave again ....
 
A chain (like a dog choke chain) over the nose is far more effective than a rope. Also a long rope or lunge line, gloves & a short whip or pipe. Always walk by his head & watch him like a hawk - at the first sign of a problem a loud "no" with a sharp yank on the rope & a slap across the chest if he doesn't stop instantly. If he gets in front then swing him round, if needs be hit or kick him on the quarters to shock him into moving them. It sounds like I beat ponies up for fun, I don't but sometimes being sharp is necessary to get their attention & it sounds like this lad is just being plain rude.

Don't let the girl handle him until he can behave with adults. Then start her off in a confined area before moving into bigger spaces. She'll have a lot to learn too so don't assume she knows what to do, explain it fully & make sure she's confident before you take a step forward.
 
I'd have I chain through its mouth, obnoxious git. Clip it to off side of headcollar, through its mouth, pass through near side of nose band and hold lead rope connected to end. This stops most of them, and if anyone thinks its cruel I hope you're the one it knocks over next time it buggers off.
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I wouldn't use a chifney! If it bolts that could mean a broken jaw. They MUST lead in a lunge line. If the pony bolts that gives them much more chance to dig their feet into the ground and if needed to wrap it around a fence post!!! The pony needs to learn respect in all manners. he needs to move over when told, stand when told, wait for his food. Some natural horsemanship might help, but then again it might not. The pony should be led if not in a bridle then in a well fitted lunge cavesson. Make him walk two steps then stand. Walk two paces, stand. Keep doing this until he gets the message. A lunge line around his body and / or a roller with side reins might make him feel more restrained, too. I used these methods with my colt after he flattened me first time we tried leading but I know this is different because my colt was green, not rude, and needed kindness, not force. He very quickly learned.
 
i agree that leading in a lunge line is a good idea in that it would give them more time to get a good hold of it again, however isnt in a bit dangerous if he does manage to get loose with a lunge line dragging ?
 
That's true. But it's dangerous whichever way you look at it. My colt broke away in a lead rope and galloped around the field for a good 45 mins, nearly tripping himself up a few times. It would definately have been worse had he been in a lunge line. Would he have still broken away? Probably, because I wasn't expecting it.... probably not if I had been expecting it.
 
My daughter had a welsh cob who used to do this, but only with kids he knew the grown ups could hold him! I bought her a control halter (couldnt hold him in a bridle either!) and showed her how to use it and it worked wonders, they will work on any horse if used correctly.
 
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