Bad outcomes/luck linked to a specific place?

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BlueFire710

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Has anyone got any experience of terrible runs of bad luck seemingly being linked to a specific yard/location?

A very dear friend of mine has an immaculate set up, she dedicates her whole life to the horses, and yet has relentless awful luck and outcomes that are disproportionate.
Horses kept quite naturally but also very managed to mitigate possible issues.
Had countless instances of issues arising that vets can’t believe are possible given the management/are extremely unlikely/‘never seen this before’/‘this doesn’t make any sense’ type cases.

She’s now had one too many and is deciding whether to sell up and leave as she feels it has to be linked to the yard, whether in a woo-woo way or something environmental she can’t identify.
Before moving to this place she’s always had completely normal, reasonable experiences and ‘luck’ (at least in the previous ten years when I’ve known her).

She’s all over the place in her mind and is desperate for input. I don’t know what to say.
I’ve always been a bit envious of her set up but wouldn’t move my horses there now if you paid me, which says a lot.
Equally, I know she’s so independent and quirky I can’t imagine a livery yard making her happy, especially going from full control.
I don’t think she could face starting again with another home set up right now.
I don’t know what to suggest.

Does anyone have any similar experiences or advice?
 
In very much my own opinion, the more managed horses are, the more they seem to come to harm. You don't describe the ways in which hers are 'very managed' (but also quite naturally) so I might be barking up the wrong tree here. I think there is much to be said for horses living in groups (for obvious reasons), out a lot and ideally all the time (keeps them calmer) and with simple basic food, especially those not in hard work. For some reason the local field of gypsy ponies, kept in rough grazing full of dangerous items, seem to survive just fine (and I'm not advocating sprinkling the field with nails and barbed wire, but...). Somehow they seem more resilient this way.

Given that everyone has a style they are comfortable with, it's hard to separate management from location, unless she were to test alternative management in the same place (or the same management elsewhere). Might be worth a survey though...
 
She might just be having a run of bad luck though. And just about to turn a corner. It does seem to happen that unfortunate things come in "groups". Could she maybe hire in some help with the horses and step back a bit from the management so that she gets a mental break from it all?
 
Abacus said:
In very much my own opinion, the more managed horses are, the more they seem to come to harm. You don't describe the ways in which hers are 'very managed' (but also quite naturally) so I might be barking up the wrong tree here. I think there is much to be said for horses living in groups (for obvious reasons), out a lot and ideally all the time (keeps them calmer) and with simple basic food, especially those not in hard work. For some reason the local field of gypsy ponies, kept in rough grazing full of dangerous items, seem to survive just fine (and I'm not advocating sprinkling the field with nails and barbed wire, but...). Somehow they seem more resilient this way.

Given that everyone has a style they are comfortable with, it's hard to separate management from location, unless she were to test alternative management in the same place (or the same management elsewhere). Might be worth a survey though...
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I couldn’t agree more with this. Managed in the sense that they have a full team inputting (bodyworkers, vets etc), lots is done with them day to day (grooming etc), forage and feed very carefully planned (simple), lots of effort (and investment) into keeping fields mud free. They’re natural in that lots of turnout in small herds, ad lib hay and simple feed.
 
BlueFire710 said:
I couldn’t agree more with this. Managed in the sense that they have a full team inputting (bodyworkers, vets etc), lots is done with them day to day (grooming etc), forage and feed very carefully planned (simple), lots of effort (and investment) into keeping fields mud free. They’re natural in that lots of turnout in small herds, ad lib hay and simple feed.
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Also worth adding she’s overhauled management system massively. Very traditional initially (we used to butt heads!), and has shifted under the belief it would change health outcomes. Think the failure of it to do so has been what is breaking her now. I feel guilty, as I was a big part of encouraging her to try it and I have to admit it doesn’t seem to have made a blind bit of difference in this case. It’s still ridiculous things coming up for her horses.
 
Marigold4 said:
She might just be having a run of bad luck though. And just about to turn a corner. It does seem to happen that unfortunate things come in "groups". Could she maybe hire in some help with the horses and step back a bit from the management so that she gets a mental break from it all?
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This is what is causing me the inner conflict in what to say to her - if the tide is about to turn, she’d never find the set up again so well suited to her, and she’s poured so much into developing it.

Unfortunately she’s been badly let down by help repeatedly there, and is a bit crippled with the latest round of vets bills. I’ve house sat for her before for a weekend away - maybe I’ll try to convince her to let me do that again even to give very temporary respite.
 
I think some people do just get a run of terrible, horrible bad luck and there's no rhyme or reason for it. Similarly I know someone who has a beautiful set-up, horses want for nothing and has lost 4 youngsters in a row to awful unavoidable things (neurological issues, crippling degenerative neck arthritis etc.) all well-bred with no known genetic issues, bought out the field unbroken and started slowly.
 
Are they things that might reasonably be linked to the environment (diseases that could be caught from nearby livestock/wildlife, poisonings, serious dietary imbalances etc) or are they just freak accidents, like blown tendons/wounds/getting legs stuck in rugs or fencing?
If the former, it may be that there is something environmental causing the problems, if the latter it's more likely to be a run of rotten luck.
 
Nasicus said:
Can you give any examples of these ridiculous things?
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I don’t want to reveal too much that is specific in case anyone identifies her, but to give a flavour: widespread sarcoid outbreaks on multiple horses, asthma quickly progressed to be dreadful), a very nasty laminitis case (pony on fully grass free track, tested ‘safe’ hay - vet absolutely baffled).
So by ridiculous I mean things that aren’t sport related orthopaedic issues, and which don’t seem to fit with her management system being a cause.
 
KikiDee said:
I think some people do just get a run of terrible, horrible bad luck and there's no rhyme or reason for it. Similarly I know someone who has a beautiful set-up, horses want for nothing and has lost 4 youngsters in a row to awful unavoidable things (neurological issues, crippling degenerative neck arthritis etc.) all well-bred with no known genetic issues, bought out the field unbroken and started slowly.
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This is exactly the same ‘vibe’!
 
See, I have to confess that I'm a bit of a "believer" when it comes to continuous bad occurrences in a place which keep happening over a period of time. When this becomes a recurring theme, it does make superstitious people like me (or perhaps I should say psychicly aware) think that there may be some kind of bad vibes, or something awful which might have happened, in this particular area. I do believe this. I think the psychic term is "negative vortex"; where perhaps something has happened - many years ago even - and that has somehow passed into the residual "energy" of a place, and thus there is a continuity of negative (or even sad) occurrences.

Also I believe in "ley lines" and their influence upon the earth.

Call me as daft as a brush if you will: but I once had a very interesting conversation along these lines with a pigeon-racing guy who came out to collect a stray racing pigeon we had in the yard....... I will never forget that conversation, it was very insightful indeed.
 
SpeedyPony said:
Are they things that might reasonably be linked to the environment (diseases that could be caught from nearby livestock/wildlife, poisonings, serious dietary imbalances etc) or are they just freak accidents, like blown tendons/wounds/getting legs stuck in rugs or fencing?
If the former, it may be that there is something environmental causing the problems, if the latter it's more likely to be a run of rotten luck.
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Some link to the environment perhaps - sudden, severe, pollen related asthma. Of what I can remember not really freak accidents, all more disease/condition type things.
 
U.N.Owen said:
What breed of horses does she have? Very nicely bred warmbloods are likely to keep having 'bad luck' as they are so line bred that their genetics are a bit sh*te.

A forest bred Newfie or a Daetnoor hill pony are more likely to stay sound/incident free as more designed that way.
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Total mix! Some *very* tough, resilient individuals before they arrived who did not remain so.
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
See, I have to confess that I'm a bit of a "believer" when it comes to continuous bad occurrences in a place which keep happening over a period of time. When this becomes a recurring theme, it does make superstitious people like me (or perhaps I should say psychicly aware) think that there may be some kind of bad vibes, or something awful which might have happened, in this particular area. I do believe this. I think the psychic term is "negative vortex"; where perhaps something has happened - many years ago even - and that has somehow passed into the residual "energy" of a place, and thus there is a continuity of negative (or even sad) occurrences.

Also I believe in "ley lines" and their influence upon the earth.

Call me as daft as a brush if you will: but I once had a very interesting conversation along these lines with a pigeon-racing guy who came out to collect a stray racing pigeon we had in the yard....... I will never forget that conversation, it was very insightful indeed.
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This is helpful, thank you! Definitely not calling you daft as a brush, was hoping if anyone had these sort of views/experiences they’d be brave enough to post. I never thought I’d be googling ‘negative vortex’ but here we go…!!
 
It’s so hard to know absolute cause in so many cases, as often it’s a combo of influences.
One thing that can happen commonly is we get so worried and wound-up by continuous set-backs, that we create an anxious worried feedback loop, which we project unconsciously, and then more stuff goes wrong.
Once caught in a loop of worry/concern it’s hard to break it. I’ve never known such a loop of worry create harmony, so hence why it’s said ‘worry is wasted energy’, although it’s understandable we would worry.
It’s likely not practical but I’ve always wondered in such cases you describe if the manager caught in the loop, could holiday away for 4 weeks, and see how the animals are.
I’ve pulled myself away from unrelenting stress and had a re-set and re-charge to find my centre again to return in a different frame of mind and solve issues I was once locked into in stress mode.
It may be the place, energetically, the owner energetically, or simply a very grounded cause of environmental toxicity. It sounds like the owner needs a break from the constant concern, however that could be facilitated.
 
Lets remember that January is the worst time possible to own horses in any part of the UK no matter your set up, and Monday just gone has been officially named blue Monday for good reason. I doubt any one of us hasn't questioned their life choices in the rain and abysmal weather on a January morning. I did this morning!

Has she run bloods to see if the ones getting immunity issues are low or high in something? There is a thread on here somewhere (I think @BBP2 , but I could be wrong) that has had issues with minerals in the ground effecting their ponies.

I've not dealt with sarcoids myself, but could sarcoids also point towards an immunity issue?

Laminitis has caught a few people out this autumn just gone, but grass free makes things a little more predictable. This would point to looking at the water source as well as the ground IMHO.
 
PurBee said:
It’s so hard to know absolute cause in so many cases, as often it’s a combo of influences.
One thing that can happen commonly is we get so worried and wound-up by continuous set-backs, that we create an anxious worried feedback loop, which we project unconsciously, and then more stuff goes wrong.
Once caught in a loop of worry/concern it’s hard to break it. I’ve never known such a loop of worry create harmony, so hence why it’s said ‘worry is wasted energy’, although it’s understandable we would worry.
It’s likely not practical but I’ve always wondered in such cases you describe if the manager caught in the loop, could holiday away for 4 weeks, and see how the animals are.
I’ve pulled myself away from unrelenting stress and had a re-set and re-charge to find my centre again to return in a different frame of mind and solve issues I was once locked into in stress mode.
It may be the place, energetically, the owner energetically, or simply a very grounded cause of environmental toxicity. It sounds like the owner needs a break from the constant concern, however that could be facilitated.
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Thank you for this, very helpful. It may be that showing this thread to my friend, over a coffee and a huge slab of cake, and a good heart to heart could catalyse a breakthrough in taking a break to reset and build energy back for whatever the next step is.

Maybe holiday livery even for her higher maintenance ones to facilitate a break and see where that left horses and human.
 
dorsetladette said:
Lets remember that January is the worst time possible to own horses in any part of the UK no matter your set up, and Monday just gone has been officially named blue Monday for good reason. I doubt any one of us hasn't questioned their life choices in the rain and abysmal weather on a January morning. I did this morning!

Has she run bloods to see if the ones getting immunity issues are low or high in something? There is a thread on here somewhere (I think @BBP2 , but I could be wrong) that has had issues with minerals in the ground effecting their ponies.

I've not dealt with sarcoids myself, but could sarcoids also point towards an immunity issue?

Laminitis has caught a few people out this autumn just gone, but grass free makes things a little more predictable. This would point to looking at the water source as well as the ground IMHO.
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Every time there’s been any issues bloods are always run, I know this. She does baseline bloods too to catch small changes. Never anything of note/clue.

while I don’t know details I do also know she’s done lots of testing for grass/minerals/soil type things too.

I don’t know enough about sarcoids either, but very interesting re immunity if so - I’ll investigate.

Water source is a good idea, I’ll ask about that. It would be one of the few things consistent across all management changes maybe.
 
Are they on mains water or a private supply? Definitely get water tested if on private supply.
Have the vets made any comment re ongoing issues?
 
BlueFire710 said:
Thank you for this, very helpful. It may be that showing this thread to my friend, over a coffee and a huge slab of cake, and a good heart to heart could catalyse a breakthrough in taking a break to reset and build energy back for whatever the next step is.

Maybe holiday livery even for her higher maintenance ones to facilitate a break and see where that left horses and human.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a good plan. Whenever there’s an ever increasing intensity in concern and worry, our resilience can be severely tested, and it usually requires a change of some sort. 3rd party involvement, a break from it all, and shift of perspective etc.
As she’s invested so much into the place, it’s worth trying a break or change of some sort, before going all-out and selling-up.
 
I would agree with the sensible posters on here in that it’s bad luck.

But I have also worked on a yard that seemed cursed. Beautiful yard but a huge amount of illnesses and injuries that were odd.
 
dorsetladette said:
Lets remember that January is the worst time possible to own horses in any part of the UK no matter your set up, and Monday just gone has been officially named blue Monday for good reason. I doubt any one of us hasn't questioned their life choices in the rain and abysmal weather on a January morning. I did this morning!

Has she run bloods to see if the ones getting immunity issues are low or high in something? There is a thread on here somewhere (I think @BBP2 , but I could be wrong) that has had issues with minerals in the ground effecting their ponies.

I've not dealt with sarcoids myself, but could sarcoids also point towards an immunity issue?

Laminitis has caught a few people out this autumn just gone, but grass free makes things a little more predictable. This would point to looking at the water source as well as the ground IMHO.
Click to expand...
I also felt this way today and felt like giving up with this awful weather with no let up in sight!
 
I'd put this down to just a run of bad luck - sarcoids are thought to be spread by flies, aren't they? And can spread from the flies going on affected animals and spreading to healthy horses? I've had a similar experience with the breathing issue - horse was previously healthy, then had extreme breathing issue, we and the vet thought we'd lose her, no cause was ever found, but she recovered and never had a problem again, so eventually we stopped the "precautionary" Ventipulmin, and she eventually (years later) had to be PTS in her 30's with colic. There are a couple of people with threads here at the moment with inexplicable Laminitis cases...and the more horses you have, the more likely you are to see various conditions - that said, I 'm with @MiJodsR2BlinkinTite with ley lines etc but that's been more to do with the "feel" of a place rather than any spectacularly bad luck while there.
 
I haven't any good suggestions to offer, sorry, but it does sound really awful. It seems with horses that there often runs of bad luck, injuries and we scratch our heads and wonder what on earth is going on, when we are doing everything we can to keep them well and healthy.

I think the suggestions here have been good. Get the water tested, see if she can have a break away. The only other thing I can think of is a sort of blessing of the place - sorry about that but it is the only thing I can think of.
 
I went through a stage when I first got Baggs where it seemed like we had endless bad luck/ weird things happening/ injuries and issues that were totally unexpected and had no logical way of happening x

I joked to my vet one day that perhaps I'm either cursed or the yard must have a spirit somewhere with a grudge to bear, and she said how that whenever she visited the yard and no matter who had the vehicle that she was driving, it would always cut out half way up the lane and be a pain to get going again. They took the car into the garage to get it looked at, had the thing entirely rebuilt, different drivers drive it - and you could count down to the exact place where the vehicle would cut out.

We even did a run of driving the car in from a completely different direction and each time it got near the red zone as we called it - you guessed it - clonk and the car would cut out.....

It never did it at any other yards she visited and continued to do it, even when it became her personal car and she had her horse on livery at the same place x

I'm not one to go 1000% into the supernatural side of things, but I do believe that certain things happening to people before they pass, can have an effect on their spirit being left behind etc x

I would say that maybe it's worth your friend getting some freelance help in (even for a few days) so she can step away, breathe and gather herself whilst having a break and knowing that her horses are all sorted and then go from there x
 
I dont believe in bad luck, just probablity.

Few things to consider which may or may not be true.

1, has she increased the number of horses with her own yard? My sister and I have 6 or 7 between us. We basically bank on one of them doing something stupid once a year and obviously keep them as safely as possible. Last year it was 5k of dental treatment for a horse who's looked at every 6 months and a kick to the back of a tendon. The more horses you have the more risk you take on.

2, are they all getting older? Sweet spot between self harming youngsters and higher maintenace older horses where you hope they avoid the vet as much as possible, but horses are horses.

3, ive watched a friend of mine do this (who also thinks she is cursed), but she drives herself bonkers trying to prevent problems with her animals and they end up not living as i think horses should a lot of the time and everything involved spends time in a continual state of stress.

4, again back to probability. You have a disproportionate number of good years, odds suggest they will catch up with you at some point. Its really rubbish when it does.

The other thing is being at your own place can sometimes seem like ground hog day and its easy to loose track of timescales. Get caught up in the mindset that nothing is ever right etc. Can tie this into having a mutiple of horses too so it can seem a continual cycle of issue/treatment/rehab. We all know how doing it with just one horse can feel soul destroying.

And you dont say how long she has been there. New environment and upset herd can bring all sorts of things to the surface. Our boys took about a year to fully settle when we last moved.

Id say get over the winter. Keep a diary (for some perspective). And then i hope that the dice rolls end up more in her favour in the future. Its a horrible sitution to be in whatever the reaaon and it doesnt sound like a management issue.
 
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