Bad Tempered Horse

[Pennyhp]

I have a horse at my yard that has boarded with me since September last year.
He has never been Mr personality or Mr happy, but lately has become really sour looking and is likely to bite.
The family that own him bought him from a trail riding yard. He was working 5 hours a day and looked in excellent condition, but it was a huge yard and he wouldn't have had much individual attention.
He was one of those western horses that is really light to handle and moves around you beautifully, but never looks happy about it.
Even seems a little scared of people.
As soon as they got him his owners (13 yr old girl and dad who used to have horses back in the day and knows it all....not) have fed him treats. Not just an apple when they turn him out.
They bring a bag full of apples and carrots and stuff them all in his face.
I have made known my own views on this and on one occasion the daughter asked me why I thought he was getting more grouchy and I told her not to keep giving him all these treats. Put it in a feed bowl if you have to give them.

Lately though he seems to be even more grouchy and has nipped at people including me (for which he got a swift smack).
He also seems really tense when you work around him. Putting on his rug etc.
He gives you the kind of evil looks that seem to say I want to kill you, but I'm too scared.

What makes a horse so sour? Do you think it is only the titbitting?

All views welcome.

 

[Skhosu]

sounds like he might have a back issue when coupled with the rugs?

 

[AmyMay]

Sounds like he's not exactly Mr Personality - and the titbitting is making him worse.

I had a mare that was very similar. My own silly fault - used to love giving her treats. She was a much nicer person when I was persuaded to stop.

 

[NeilM]

Sounds like he was both frightened of and respectful of the people who handled him at the trail riding yard. Now he is being treated like a pet, enough of the fear is subsiding for him to show his real dislike of people.

There could be something else as well, maybe sensitive skin.

 

[mickey]

I purchased my horse as a 4 year old. From day 1 he was moody in the stable and did not like anyone standing outside his box - He'd stick his head out and lurch over the door, teeth barred.

He is great to ride and I find him easy to handle in all other respects (as do the yard). He has regular physio, I have had him on calmers and joint supplements. He has his teeth done each year. I am a loving owner who spends much time with him. If he ever tried to bite me he'd get a serious telling off and on the 2 occasions in 8 yrs he has kicked out at me I gave him a swift kick back. Apart from that I am very non-aggressive and tolerant with him. I have spent time doing a lot of groundwork with him. He wants for nothing. I have resigned myself to the fact that this is his persona in the stable. I am pretty sure he was handled harshly as a baby.
So, what I am saying is, some horses are just like this.

As you say this horse has become worse, I'd personally eliminate any back, teeth or other vet issues. I'd check the saddle and bridle to be sure there is no pain coming from these. Then I'd work at managing the horse in a confident way, being firm if required. Problem is, you need the owners to provide the same framework.

I agree they should cut the treats out and I'd try a calmer. If it's a mare, it could be hormone related??

 

[Orangehorse]

On the Intelligent Horsemanship DG someone had a horse that was so bad tempered it was going to be PTS. (It was attacking people).

However, it was suggested that he might have ulcers - which turned out to be the case, even though the vet thought the owner was barmy to insist on a scope.

The horse has received treatment for his uclers and is a reformed character.

With nastiness in horses there usually IS a physical issue somewhere, although it often far from obvious and even the usual checks of back, saddle, teeth, feet don't get to the bottom of the problem. Other reasons are agressiveness are fear from previous experiences - "I'll go for you before you attack me"

I definitely think that the constant hand feeding has to stop. It is OK to give something occasionally, but then say "all gone" and then the horse will learn that there isn't any more.

Apart from that - it is a bit beyond my experience, maybe others might have some suggestions.

 

[mickey]

Just thought - What is the horse's diet like? Is it high in sugars or protein? Or maybe the ration is too large? It may be also that certain types of feed affect this horse?

 

[Pennyhp]

Thank you for all the helpfull sugestions and coments.
I don't think its his back as he hasn't been ridden since November as we have had so much snow and ice.
He isn't awfully keen on human contact at all really.
I think NeilM put it very well. I think he was frightened of but respectful of the people who had him before and now is loosing that respect a bit now.
Nothing is ever really asked of him at the moment. Even when she was riding him it was only for 20 minutes of walk and a bit of trot.
I also think he is bored. We all are. Lots of snow and no grass to browse on. Just Hay.
He is fed twice a day on sweetina course mix (don't know if its over in the uk). Just over a kilo a day.

I am trying to be firm but positive with him and spend a bit of time on reasurance when he has given the right response.

He is just a bit of a puzzle. Iv'e never met such a sour horse before.
I know that the treats exacerbate the problem, but they won't stop.
Every thing I suggest to the daughter, the dad undermines and tells her the opposite.
Like I tell her to tie him up to put his rug on, but she doesn't cos dad says there is no need.
The only one she has applied is that she must use a lead rope to get him in and out from the field.
she called me on her cell phone to come down from the house to help her catch him because my horse apparently was being a nusance and she couldn't get through the gate to bring him in. When I got there she had put the headcoller on and as trying to manouver him through the gate without a leadrope, cos dad said she didn't need one. I had already told her once that she should use one, so I pulled the bossy YO card and told her that in my yard she would always use one for safty reasons, no matter what dad says. And she has done that ever since.

This is Tilly being his usual happy self.

The ulcers could be an idea. Not something I would have thought of.
It will be interested to see if he cheers up a bit when we finaly get some spring weather and some new grass.
Maybe horses sufer from SAD too.

 

[charliecrisps]

Aww.. mine suffers from Sad for sure. He is just like the picture above. Spending all day in a courtyard with hay, during the winter but gets much better in the summer. He bucks up when we go out for a hack tho, but then just returns to his miserable self when we get back. He is getting worse the older he gets. Is he old?

 

[Shilasdair]

Sounds like the description of horse in fairly constant low grade pain. It could be something like ulcers, as someone has said, or possible muscle damage somewhere...or a touch of arthritis.
It might be worth trying him on painkillers (under vet advice, obviously) to see if he improves.
S

 

[emma_lg]

Poor you having to try and make an unhappy horse happy...whilst the owner does the opposite for you.

Giving him treats constantly probably backs up his grumpiness to a certain extent...he probably does not see it as a reward but just as normal practice now.
My mare (ex-racer) was incredibly bad when I bought her (11yrs ago)..she had been ill-treated and then abandoned cos she turned on the person who ill-treated her and was right off people to the extent you couldnt touch her. She would also attack you, cow-kick and bite. Yet I always saw her as vulnerable. Its like there was a line she knew she shouldnt cross but she just couldnt help herself. She would attack first before you attacked her.
I had all physical checks done on her and she was a mess muscular wise..so plenty of physio work was done. Also, I just had to draw lines and make things black and white so she knew where she was and what was expected of her. She tended to like things done 'right' not haphazard, and I expected respect from her so we both knew where we stood. She couldn't just bully for the sake of it.
She is still grumpy sometimes...especially with rugs but if she is scratchy it is often cos there is something wrong ie. soreness. She suffers from arthritis and since she has got older cant seem to take any kind of pain.
I do give her treats and she has never snatched or got funny about them at all, yet, I can go all the time with her not giving her any and she doesnt hassle me for them or get grouchy with me.
I do think some horses can just be rather grumpy of their own accord, all have different personalities after all and are not happy-go-lucky types!
It may be worth getting him checked over tho...it would be worth ruling out that there is a pain-related issue, otherwise anything you do to try to improve his outlook on life will be difficult.

 

[mickey]

I agree with Shilisdair's advice of trying a low dose of painkiller and observing what happens to her personality.

If the horse is very bright and likes to be occupied then I would recommend some interesting work (hacking, schooling etc). My horse is dreadful if he is not occupied with regular work.