Baileys no 4, anything as good with less starch and no cereal?

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thatsmygirl

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Iv got my ex racer on baileys no 4, alfa a oil, speddibeet, micro linseed, with brewers yeast, mag oz, garlic and pro feet. I'm happy with his condition but not happy with the amount off starch in the baileys, any ideas what feed to change him 2? He's bare foot behind so far hence the brewers yeast and mag oz but really don't like the starch levels. I don't like calm and condition found it to do nothing so any ideas?
 
tbh if you need that kind of condition, just get soya meal and lucie nuts... much cheaper and no starch!!! Have you looked into pure feeds?
 
Thank you very much I will google the ERS pellets now. Not quite sure what they are or what's in them. I'm not to keen on feeding soya either as from previous threads on here it doesn't sound to good to feed. Lucie nuts is another I will google now as well. Topspec conditioning cubes I have tried but didn't really do anything but has bloomed on baileys. Thanks everybody for the ideas :)
 
Allan and Page feeds - I feed the calm & condition, or power & performance depending what my mare is doing. Low starch, higher in the desired things!
My mare does very well on these - and she's the sort who comes out in full body urticaria on barley!

Forgot to add - do think a lot of the ERS pellets, but my mare won't eat them, neither will friends horse! No idea why!
 
Top SPec Cool Condition cubes or Spillers Response Slow Release cubes, though both have soya in them. Or, if you want a mix, look at Saracen ReLeve.
 
Aces high it's only the starch levels really I hate feeding high starch. I try to go for as low as possable. All my others horses diets are ok but would just like to cut the starch level down a bit.
Looking at the ERS pellets aren't they not going to give quite a bit off energy? And as I feed alfa a oil and linseed isn't that going to be a oil over load? Cause they seem to be oil based.
 
Have a look at the Winergy equilibrium feeds. The senior and low are both 3.5% starch, the growth is 5%.
My previously not so good doer 7/8TB dressage mare needed bucketloads of grub to keep weight on when she was competing at advanced level - over 12lbs a day in winter! She competed her last couple of years on 5lbs of Winergy Medium and has maintained her weight through the last two foals on a mix of the growth and senior depending on stage of pregnancy/feeding foal. Currently on box rest for a b*ggered tendon and is trolling along nicely on 4lbs of the low.
Her now 5yo daughter is on the low - she turned horrible last winter when I added some fast fibre to fill her up a bit and that is only 5% starch so sticking to the Low.

My other mare is a good doer and she competed to PSG level on a couple of lbs of the low in summer/senior in winter.
 
thatsmygirl said:
Aces high it's only the starch levels really I hate feeding high starch. I try to go for as low as possable. All my others horses diets are ok but would just like to cut the starch level down a bit.
Looking at the ERS pellets aren't they not going to give quite a bit off energy? And as I feed alfa a oil and linseed isn't that going to be a oil over load? Cause they seem to be oil based.
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Why do you like feeding low starch diets to your horses? Just trying to work out your reasoning behind it - unless the horse has been tested as having a starch intolerance.
 
Aces_High said:
Why do you like feeding low starch diets to your horses? Just trying to work out your reasoning behind it - unless the horse has been tested as having a starch intolerance.
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I also like feeding high fibre, low starch diets. Horses have evolved to subsist off of this type of diet. High starch feeds can lead to hindgut acidosis, which can cause a range of issues from so-called stable vices to laminitis. Excess sugar and starch in the diet will also make unshod horses 'footy'.

OP - Winergy condition is significantly lower starch than baileys #4, but does contain molasses. You could try the blue bag grass nuts from Simple Systems.
 
Nocturnal said:
I also like feeding high fibre, low starch diets. Horses have evolved to subsist off of this type of diet. High starch feeds can lead to hindgut acidosis, which can cause a range of issues from so-called stable vices to laminitis. Excess sugar and starch in the diet will also make unshod horses 'footy'.
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This! My lad is intolerant of starch because of the acidosis so changed and now he is happy and calm, which is nice as he is 17-3hh and a rearer, so when stressed and agitated by a bad stomach he came very close to be dangerous. FibreGY is great for extra fibre was going to try Fast Fibre, but not if it has too much starch in it.
FDC
 
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Fany Du Champ said:
This! My lad is intolerant of starch because of the acidosis so changed and now he is happy and calm, which is nice as he is 17-3hh and a rearer, so when stressed and agitated by a bad stomach he came very close to be dangerous. FibreGY is great for extra fibre was going to try Fast Fibre, but not if it has too much starch in it.
FDC
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Nocturnal said:
I also like feeding high fibre, low starch diets. Horses have evolved to subsist off of this type of diet. High starch feeds can lead to hindgut acidosis, which can cause a range of issues from so-called stable vices to laminitis. Excess sugar and starch in the diet will also make unshod horses 'footy'.
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FDC - I understand what you are saying but your horse IS intolerant to starch. The OP has said that she'd like to change it because she doesn't like high starch diets. To be honest, if the horse is doing well on No.4 why change it?

Nocturnal - again I see your point but it's all on a can do basis. I think unless you're horse is actually intolerant then why change something which works?

It's just my opinion and way of thinking!
 
Aces_High said:
FDC - I understand what you are saying but your horse IS intolerant to starch. The OP has said that she'd like to change it because she doesn't like high starch diets. To be honest, if the horse is doing well on No.4 why change it?

Nocturnal - again I see your point but it's all on a can do basis. I think unless you're horse is actually intolerant then why change something which works?

It's just my opinion and way of thinking!
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I do agree with you to an extent, though the starch issue is a bugbear of mine. Mho is that all horses are starch intolerant to a certain extent, though how much will obviously differ between individuals. Though the OP's horse may be in good condition weight-wise on the diet it's on, the horse's feet may be telling a different story (she mentioned he is unshod behind).

It's well documented that horses that work unshod cannot cope with excess starch in the diet, and to me that indicates that horses' feet simply aren't healthy if fed too much starch. If the feet aren't healthy then it follows that the horse isn't healthy. Surely that's still true if you put shoes on? It just means that you can't see the evidence so easily.

If you never intend to take shoes off, then perhaps you can get away with it (so long as you keep an eye out for evidence of hindgut acidosis), but I personally would not be happy shoeing a horse 365 days a year, every year. I feel that it's too damaging to the feet.

That's just my opinion, anyway :).
 
Thanks nocturnal you have answered the question for me, he is a ex racer who is currently on a year out ( just finished 8 years off racing) so well earned rest. I do want him to remain bare foot and reduceing the starch level is a important part off this so iv been told via here ( new to bare foot but all going well so far on the 5 who have had backs off, fronts start soon) I just feel why feed the baileys if I can reduce the starch level even more and give his feet a better chance ESP once his fronts come off.
 
The simple systems blue bag grass nuts sound good, do you know the starch level in those nocturnal? He done well on summer grass but had dropped a bit off weight which the baileys has sorted out but interested in the break down off the grass nuts but can't find it on their web site.
 
thatsmygirl said:
Looking at the ERS pellets aren't they not going to give quite a bit off energy?.
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Energy = calories, and calories are what you need to help keep condition on a poor doer. Baileys No 4 is just as high in energy/calories. Are you actually asking if it will make your horse fizzy? If so, it should be less 'fizz-making' than the Baileys due to the lower starch content.
 
Ok thank you TGM that's helpful to know. It's either going to be the EMS pellets or the grass nuts I'm going to swap to, just gona do a bit more reserch off them. Thanks guys
 
The grass nuts are low in starch, though I don't know the precise percentage. I'm sure SS would be able to tell you if drop them an email. You could also look at Pure Feeds, as I've heard good things about them.

Good luck with your horse, sounds like he's landed on his feet with you (no pun intended!) :)
 
I have had my ex racer 3 months and i feed him all SS feed. He has Greengold, blue bag grass pellets,total eclipse and now adding pura beet for winter. He looks a picture on it he is calm and happy and his feet have improved beyond belief in such a short time. As far as i am aware all very low in sugar and starch.
 
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Just bear in mind that the ERS Pellets and the Baileys No 4 are supplemented with vit/mins, whilst grass nuts are an unsupplemented straight. So if you are relying on the feed to supply vit/mins then you might want to use a vit/min supplement if you choose grass nuts. Different brands of grass nuts vary quite a bit in composition depending on the type of grass used and the time cut, so you might want to check with the manufacturer the calorie content (MJDE/kg) and the sugar content. Try to find a grass nut with a lowish sugar content if you are worried about barefoot hoof quality.
 
The blue bag grass nuts are 0.1% starch and 12% sugar. Is that sugar level ok as it's natural sugar from the grass I would think? Thinking for the bare foot horse for those who haven't read it all
 
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