Balancers?

S

Shilasdair

Patting her thylacine
Joined
26 March 2007
Messages
23,686
Location
Daemon from Hades
Visit site
Me again :D
I was just wondering what you all think a 'balancer' balances?
What is the difference between a 'balancer' and a vitamin/mineral supplement?
And which micronutrients you think a horse needs, and why?
For example, if a horse were deficient in selenium, what would be the symptoms (no Googling, please :p)?
And what happens to excess micronutrients fed?
S :D
 
Balancers contain protein which a vit/min supplement normally wouldn't, by feeding both you can double up on vit/mins (normally not a problem as the horse would excrete any excess)

I would not be over worried about Selenium deficiency in this country, I would be more worried about Selenium toxicity tbh, however selenium is essential for muscle function and a deficiency can be one of the causes of 'tying up' which is one of the reasons it is prescribed for horses with muscle dysfunction.
 
As far as I'm concerned the word balancer is a bit misleading. I think of mine as a vit and min supplement with additional quality protein. I like to know that I'm giving him some quality protein as he's fed restricted, not great quality hay. He probably gets enough from the grass in the summer but over winter when he was being fed hay that was the horse equivalent of All Bran (all fibre and not much else) it was good to know he was getting it as he's young and we were schooling quite a bit trying to build some topline.

Not sure about selenium deficiency but I do know that selenium overload is scurfy and itchy skin (I think!).
 
Amaranta said:
Balancers contain protein which a vit/min supplement normally wouldn't, by feeding both you can double up on vit/mins (normally not a problem as the horse would excrete any excess)

I would not be over worried about Selenium deficiency in this country, I would be more worried about Selenium toxicity tbh, however selenium is essential for muscle function and a deficiency can be one of the causes of 'tying up' which is one of the reasons it is prescribed for horses with muscle dysfunction.
Click to expand...

Which protein, and why?
And are you suggesting that the whole of the UK has adequate selenium levels in the grazing? Would 'tying up' be the only symptom you would expect to see?
No Googling, mind. :p
S :D
 
No, there are obviously areas low on selenium, parts of Wales for instance, but the symptoms of deficiency are quite simple to spot:

Lethargy
Unwillingness to move
excess sweating
increase in pulse
muscle atrophy
bloody/brown urine

Ooops all the symptoms of azotoria :)

The protein source from balancers is normally (but not always) full fat soya, although I do know of one very well known brand that contains lactose, which to my mind is not ideal for a grown horse.

Still think that selenium toxicity is a bigger problem :)
 
Amaranta said:
No, there are obviously areas low on selenium, parts of Wales for instance, but the symptoms of deficiency are quite simple to spot:

Lethargy
Unwillingness to move
excess sweating
increase in pulse
muscle atrophy
bloody/brown urine

Ooops all the symptoms of azotoria :)

The protein source from balancers is normally (but not always) full fat soya, although I do know of one very well known brand that contains lactose, which to my mind is not ideal for a grown horse.

Still think that selenium toxicity is a bigger problem :)
Click to expand...

Ok, a few more questions for you (cue Monty Python sketch about the Spanish Inquistion).

1. Do you think 'azotoria' is the same as 'tying up' and if so, what do you think is happening?
2. I didn't ask you the protein source, I asked you which protein.
3. Do you believe lactose is a protein.
4. Why is lactose not ideal for a grown horse?

S :D
 
1/ Call me old fashioned but I do think azotoria and tying up are indeed the same thing, although these days it is probably more correct to call it ER. Build up of lactic acid in muscles

2/Sorry misread it - lysine in most cases

3/No - carbohydrate

4/Lactose being the main ingredient of milk is not imho suitable for any fully grown animal. There are far more efficient ways to feed a carbohydrate.
 
Amaranta said:
1/ Call me old fashioned but I do think azotoria and tying up are indeed the same thing, although these days it is probably more correct to call it ER. Build up of lactic acid in muscles

2/Sorry misread it - lysine in most cases

3/No - carbohydrate

4/Lactose being the main ingredient of milk is not imho suitable for any fully grown animal. There are far more efficient ways to feed a carbohydrate.
Click to expand...

:D
1. Fair enough, just checking :p
2. Why would you want to supplement lysine?
3. I'm relieved!
4. Why is lactose (milk) not suitable for a fully grown animal?
I'm just polishing the thumb screws - you are very brave.
S :D
 
I've often wondered that.

Perhaps it works like the communicators, asks the horse what wrong with it :D

Or maybe it has a secret ingredient which deactivates it if the horse already has too much of something :D

Cant think of any other way it could balance anything with forage being so different throughout the country

I bet its a dam sight cheaper to buy selenium if you need it than feed balancers.
 
Why can't we google? My brain doesn't work well enough to remember everything, but I do my research thoroughly depending on whatever my circumstances :p

Some of it sticks, a lot doesn't, plus a lot of evidence changes or is improved upon so constant research is necessary IMO.
 
Persephone said:
Why can't we google? My brain doesn't work well enough to remember everything, but I do my research thoroughly depending on whatever my circumstances :p

Some of it sticks, a lot doesn't, plus a lot of evidence changes or is improved upon so constant research is necessary IMO.
Click to expand...

Cause its cheating :D :D

This was a test
 
Persephone said:
Why can't we google? My brain doesn't work well enough to remember everything, but I do my research thoroughly depending on whatever my circumstances :p

Some of it sticks, a lot doesn't, plus a lot of evidence changes or is improved upon so constant research is necessary IMO.
Click to expand...

Out of tact and consideration I'm going to pretend that you didn't just imply that Googling = researching.
In fact, I'm going to pretend I didn't read your post at all.
S :D
 
I was just wondering what you all think a 'balancer' balances?

you're horse obvs :confused: Mines used to fall over allot and the balncer stops him fallin .!!!

What is the difference between a 'balancer' and a vitamin/mineral supplement?

a supplment is somefin yous put in the feed mi horse has carrots every day so dosent need supplments

And which micronutrients you think a horse needs, and why?

grass and carrots coz thats wot they eat

For example, if a horse were deficient in selenium, what would be the symptoms (no Googling, please :p)?

i am not intrested in sellin im how dair yous say hes deficient? :mad:

And what happens to excess micronutrients fed?

theys get fat and lamernitus
 
rhino said:
I was just wondering what you all think a 'balancer' balances?

you're horse obvs :confused: Mines used to fall over allot and the balncer stops him fallin .!!!

What is the difference between a 'balancer' and a vitamin/mineral supplement?

a supplment is somefin yous put in the feed mi horse has carrots every day so dosent need supplments

And which micronutrients you think a horse needs, and why?

grass and carrots coz thats wot they eat

For example, if a horse were deficient in selenium, what would be the symptoms (no Googling, please :p)?

i am not intrested in sellin im how dair yous say hes deficient? :mad:

And what happens to excess micronutrients fed?

theys get fat and lamernitus
Click to expand...

I really don't know why rhinos are in danger of becoming extinct: you blend so beautifully.
S :D
 
Shilasdair said:
Out of tact and consideration I'm going to pretend that you didn't just imply that Googling = researching.
In fact, I'm going to pretend I didn't read your post at all.
S :D
Click to expand...

Quite right too. In this day and age you dont need to bother with google, takes far too much time. Wikipedia is the way to go :D :D :D
 
Shilasdair said:
Out of tact and consideration I'm going to pretend that you didn't just imply that Googling = researching.
In fact, I'm going to pretend I didn't read your post at all.
S :D
Click to expand...

So if I do not have access to scientific papers, I am just sitting at home and my search engine happens to be google how better can I check out these things? I know enough to be able to search very specifically, we used to be allowed to use peer reviewed articles at uni.

I am not about to pay for access to data, so how else can I do it?

No smart arse replies please, I would actually like to know.
 
Persephone said:
So if I do not have access to scientific papers, I am just sitting at home and my search engine happens to be google how better can I check out these things? I know enough to be able to search very specifically, we used to be allowed to use peer reviewed articles at uni.

I am not about to pay for access to data, so how else can I do it?

No smart arse replies please, I would actually like to know.
Click to expand...

Well, there are plenty of good websites that you can access using Google, but IME you can get access to peer reviewed articles through libraries anyway.
Or you could always ask on here for someone to search on your behalf.

My point was more that, if you have to Google it, you shouldn't be offering advice on it. :p
S :D
 
Shilasdair said:
Well, there are plenty of good websites that you can access using Google, but IME you can get access to peer reviewed articles through libraries anyway.
Or you could always ask on here for someone to search on your behalf.

My point was more that, if you have to Google it, you shouldn't be offering advice on it. :p
S :D
Click to expand...

I don't offer advice on anything I can't drag out of my excuse for a brain. Is that ok?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top