Ballcocks and other sweary words... Not sure what to do now

Casey76

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Tartine has been off grass completely since Sunday (due to the whole "field envy" issues as previously whinged about), and in that time she has bloated, unbloated, got a hard crest and neck wrinkles and fat pads again.

In 4 weeks her weight has come down (as measured by a tape, so understand it's just an indication) from 518kg to 470kg. Girth on saddle is definitely looser. She is being ridden for 45-60 mins 6 times a week with lots of trot and canter work, so she is sweating lots; and is perky, very forward going, and generally being her delightful self.

However... last night she was footy on the stony path

Her feet look amazing, and apart from one deep sulcus which is growing out, her frogs are also great.

I'm not sure what I can do next.

She has two 3kg nets of 1hr soaked hay, and 1kg of mixed hay replacer in a bucket for interest (and because it's boring - a mix of chopped barley straw and Agrobs LichtGenuss, with 50g Weisen cobs it lasts her ages). Her supplements are: 1 full measure of Pro Earth ProLaminae+, 25ml cinnamon, 50ml micronized linseed.

I can't really reduce her food any further. When this occurred she isn't on grass to take that away from her. During her turnout time, she is on a hard standing pen, still with her muzzle on, so she can't wolf the ad lib hay.

Any more suggestions...
 

3OldPonies

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If it were me, and I'm sorry I didn't see the thread about field envy, I would reduce feed to just the soaked hay in haylage nets and give it a really long soak followed by rinsing before feeding it. Certainly the micronised linseed would have to go as some people use that for weight gain and it's a common additive in conditioning mixes and nuts. I'd also, if you can, get her onto something with a softer surface so that the frogs are supported by some kind of bedding. P would often go in search of something soft to stand on when he first went barefoot and was feeling bruised from our stony lane. My old mini shettie would also avoid concrete and any hard surface when he was feeling footy after a trim (I did get rid of that farrier by the way.) I'd also look into hoof boots if your lane is really stony, you might not need them permanently (P didn't) but they'll help if she is feeling a bit sore, once she's over her footiness you should be gradually able to do without them.
 

Casey76

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Thanks both.

T is 9 and has never had shoes on, she has never shown signs of footiness, apart from the odd "ouch" when standing on a sharp stone on an otherwise smooth road. We regularly walk round the track, as I use is as a cool down after schooling, and even on Tuesday she was fine.

With regards to the hard standing; T is used to being in the pens, and spent an entire winter (daytime turnout) in one.

The micronised linseed is recommended to be fed alongside the ProEarth minerals, especially on a grass-free/reduced diet, due to the omega-3 oils in it. 50ml = approx. 25g, and contains less than 150 calories, which is about the same as 100g lucerne hay.
 

Christmas Crumpet

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The fact that she has grown a crest & fat pads since she has been in is the really concerning bit. Obviously the footiness goes hand in hand with this. I know there is much discussion about how many hours to soak hay for but I really do think for any horse with ANY laminitic symptoms, 12 hours is the way to go with a fresh soak/rinse before it is fed. Is it worth trying soaking her hay for longer and seeing if it makes a difference? I agree with Doormouse about the hard standing. Could it be that the hay has too much sugar which in turn is giving her sore feet which are made a bit sorer because she's on hard standing and not grass & mud when she's out. Just a thought.
 

BlackVelvet

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I think at the moment you are doing pretty much everything right, however it is worrying that she has become footy?

Is she comfortable the rest of the time? Can you turn her in a right circle without her being 'hobbly'? Does she 'weight shift' with her feet, like she's trying to get comfy?

I'm sorry that I have missed your other posts, but have you had a vet out to have a look? The fat pads etc scream EMS to me which can bring the footy symptoms with it. The exercise she is doing sounds fab, EMS horses need proper exercise to really boost their metabolism and get the blood pumping. Interesting that you feed cinnamon, is there any reason? I actually fed this to my EMS horse after a nasty case of lami and I did find it worked (could just have been the other things we were doing though!)


Tbh I didn't ever find hay made my horse footy, it was always changes in the grass. I only soaked hay for an hour and then rinsed again. He was never a horse who needed hard feed anyway so he was just fed Hi-Fi lite with his supps in.
 

Echo Bravo

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Timothy haylage very small sugar content, healthy hooves no molasses and no added sugar. I use to soak my hay but the sugar content was still high even after soaking overnight. She's gone from 305kg to 230 kg in a year and measured her today and she's staying at that weight even thou I'm letting her graze but only from 10am to 4pm and of cause no carrots apples or parsnips although I do give her Equi bite biscuits when she has her feet done and she has EMS also she only get one slab of haylage in the eveving
 

Goldenstar

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Thanks both.

T is 9 and has never had shoes on, she has never shown signs of footiness, apart from the odd "ouch" when standing on a sharp stone on an otherwise smooth road. We regularly walk round the track, as I use is as a cool down after schooling, and even on Tuesday she was fine.

With regards to the hard standing; T is used to being in the pens, and spent an entire winter (daytime turnout) in one.

The micronised linseed is recommended to be fed alongside the ProEarth minerals, especially on a grass-free/reduced diet, due to the omega-3 oils in it. 50ml = approx. 25g, and contains less than 150 calories, which is about the same as 100g lucerne hay.

You need to keep that linseed there to up the protein level in this restricted diet .
But clearly she getting too many calories from the forage while on the hard standings and and perhaps she's moving less than she did on her bare paddocks .
Could you up the work ? Perhaps do twice daily as many days as you can .
 

Casey76

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The fact that she has grown a crest & fat pads since she has been in is the really concerning bit. Obviously the footiness goes hand in hand with this. I know there is much discussion about how many hours to soak hay for but I really do think for any horse with ANY laminitic symptoms, 12 hours is the way to go with a fresh soak/rinse before it is fed. Is it worth trying soaking her hay for longer and seeing if it makes a difference? I agree with Doormouse about the hard standing. Could it be that the hay has too much sugar which in turn is giving her sore feet which are made a bit sorer because she's on hard standing and not grass & mud when she's out. Just a thought.

T initially presented with the hard crest and fat pads (fat pads only on the neck) in the middle of May, after i had been away for 2 weeks, and she had been on the rich summer fields during this time. Once I got back, she had already been moved to the small paddock nearer the yard. They pay off was no grass, but a much smaller space. I put a muzzle on her straight away, and re-started putting her hay in a net. Since then the hard crest has gone and come back a couple of times, but on Wednesday it was just about as bad as it's ever been.

Unfortunately I don't think it would be feasible to soak hay for 12 hours, we are currently having a bit of a heatwave, and I think that 12 hours in 30+°C it would be fermenting.

I think at the moment you are doing pretty much everything right, however it is worrying that she has become footy?

Is she comfortable the rest of the time? Can you turn her in a right circle without her being 'hobbly'? Does she 'weight shift' with her feet, like she's trying to get comfy?

I'm sorry that I have missed your other posts, but have you had a vet out to have a look? The fat pads etc scream EMS to me which can bring the footy symptoms with it. The exercise she is doing sounds fab, EMS horses need proper exercise to really boost their metabolism and get the blood pumping. Interesting that you feed cinnamon, is there any reason? I actually fed this to my EMS horse after a nasty case of lami and I did find it worked (could just have been the other things we were doing though!)


Tbh I didn't ever find hay made my horse footy, it was always changes in the grass. I only soaked hay for an hour and then rinsed again. He was never a horse who needed hard feed anyway so he was just fed Hi-Fi lite with his supps in.

She is fine the rest of the time, and is schooling pretty hard on our sand school. She is walking fine on the yard and up the lane. It is just this new surface on the "cool down" track that she is is finding difficult - though I will admit it is pretty challenging

IMG_2207.jpg


Timothy haylage very small sugar content, healthy hooves no molasses and no added sugar. I use to soak my hay but the sugar content was still high even after soaking overnight. She's gone from 305kg to 230 kg in a year and measured her today and she's staying at that weight even thou I'm letting her graze but only from 10am to 4pm and of cause no carrots apples or parsnips although I do give her Equi bite biscuits when she has her feet done and she has EMS also she only get one slab of haylage in the eveving

As I live in France, I can't get species specific haylage. My yard hay is changeable every 3-4 days as each large bale of used. And you don't know what the next bale is going to be like. I've already had her taken off the haylage, as it is very rich, and is more like silage the past few bales we've had opened.

You need to keep that linseed there to up the protein level in this restricted diet .
But clearly she getting too many calories from the forage while on the hard standings and and perhaps she's moving less than she did on her bare paddocks .
Could you up the work ? Perhaps do twice daily as many days as you can .

I'm going to have to try and work something out with regards to the work. Unfortunately my horses are on livery for a reason - that being I work long hours, and although my commute isn't normally to long, it can be unpredictable due to the border crossing. I might be able to lunge in the morning and ride in the evening.
 

Jericho

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I would agree that maybe the hard standing might not be helping. Also not sure of where you are but have her feet softened due to lots of rain? My farrier said yesterday that he has seen so many barefoot horses with abcessses and bruises as they can't cope the amount of rain some areas of England have had and all the stones come to the surface plus the fact the grass is going crazy with the sun and lots of rain. I am not sure forcing hooves to condition by making them work on hard ground when they are compromised already by other factors is going to help. I have just had to show my horse that has been worked barefoot for the last three years for these very reasons.
 

Casey76

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Feet are like rock, and frogs are really good at the moment.

The only notable thing recently, is that she was adjusted by an osteo a week and a half ago - been back in work for a week - and she needed quite a lot of manipulation.
 
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