Bambi killed

Xlthlx said:
Will the killers of this young deer get as much flack as the alleged shooters of 'The Emperor'?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/8089702/RSPCA-criticised-for-killing-orphaned-deer.html
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I watch a lot of 'Wildlife SOS' and Simon Cowell (not THE simon Cowell by the way) and his team would never let a deer live as long as this fawn was in captivity before introducing it back into the wild. No wonder it was so tame. If it was too young to be released i.e before it was weaned and therefore it was known at the time of 'rescue' that its chances were extremely limited to none existent then it should have been put down there and then. Simon constantly repeats that deer do not do well in captivity (even for a couple of days) and deer get extremelly stressed. You could argue that the deer was too young to fear humans, but it is bred into them that humans are 'danger' so the deer must have been held in captivity most certainly distressed to some extent anway.

Sometimes we have to question the ethics of trying to save wild animals if their state of mind is severly compromised during this process.:(
 
Typical RSPCA, keep it alive whilst its cute and earning them donations. As soon as its not earning them money anymore then shot it. Same story for their smaller animals so i'm not suprised. Wonder if they used the captive bolt gun on it too. Horrible organisation.
 
I don't know why they put it down? If it was healthy and happy as a tame deer then why not put it in someones deer park or with someone that wants a pet deer, why try and release a tame animal back into the wild as it's bound to come into contact with humans at some point on this crowded little island, they should have known better - it's just plain ignorance!!!??
I have 4 pet red deer and OK they are not the brightest animals - I'd say one up from a sheep:D - they do make quite good pets if you have the space and facilities to keep them - I didn't intend to get deer by the way but they came free with some iron age pigs I bought years ago - I think the guy saw me coming!! - sigh!!
Here's my little red stag - now nutless I hasten to add as I don't want anymore:D - destroying the sprinkler!!
DSC_0039.jpg
 
Xlthlx said:
Will the killers of this young deer get as much flack as the alleged shooters of 'The Emperor'?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/8089702/RSPCA-criticised-for-killing-orphaned-deer.html
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In my opinion they should! Why raise the deer then kill it? There were other ways to keep this deer, and not necessarily release it into the wild. If it was indeed tame then why not capture it and find a new home in a park/sanctuary as someone has said. It is just another example of why 'us' humans really are the barstewards. As long as something is of use to us then we keep it. When it is no longer of use then dump or get rid.
If the RSPCA had this view then why rescue the damned thing in the first place? Why not pts to sleep when the mother had the accident? Why keep it alive, stress the poor mite then release, recapture and then kill it. I really do have to question the motives of some people, but then again they are human so what can we expect :(
 
I can't believe people think deer should be kept as pets.
The country is over run by deer hence the culling of 300,000 deer a year. The best thing the RSPCA should have done was put the deer down when it was found. Some of these so called wildlife rescue centres can do more harm than good as there are a number of species which cannot be released back into the wild such as grey squirrels and some deer species who have been rescued due to injury. Consequently there are so called wildlife centres full of once wild animals stuck in captivity. I believe if an injured anim is found and due to the law cannot be put back into the wild it should be put down.
 
This happened locally, and I was really saddened to hear about it.

This deer was raised just a couple of miles away from Reaseheath Agricultural College, which now has zoo status, and has their own tame red deer which was in a similar position to Bambi.
The deer is absolutely fine.

I am sure the college, or their staff, could have helped find a suitable home for bambi...
 
lizzie_liz said:
I can't believe people think deer should be kept as pets.
The country is over run by deer hence the culling of 300,000 deer a year. The best thing the RSPCA should have done was put the deer down when it was found. Some of these so called wildlife rescue centres can do more harm than good as there are a number of species which cannot be released back into the wild such as grey squirrels and some deer species who have been rescued due to injury. Consequently there are so called wildlife centres full of once wild animals stuck in captivity. I believe if an injured anim is found and due to the law cannot be put back into the wild it should be put down.
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The country is over run by humans. Relentlessly concreting over greenbelt countryside, then scratching heads when there is flooding. Depleting natural resources at a break neck speed. Culling masses of wildlife when they dare encroach on our habitats. Don't see anything being done about that.

I can get my head around killing sick/elderly deer, but for the RSPCA to kill a perfectly healthy animal when it was their own damned fault he got as tame, is beyond reproach. There would have been plenty places that could have taken him in. Shame on them!! I have seen quite a few episodes of Wildlife SOS where they have successfully rehabilitated deer and released them back into the wild. It CAN be done.

Alex, thank you for proving that deer can be excellent pets. LOVE your photo. :)
 
Over2You said:
The country is over run by humans. Relentlessly concreting over greenbelt countryside, then scratching heads when there is flooding. Depleting natural resources at a break neck speed. Culling masses of wildlife when they dare encroach on our habitats. Don't see anything being done about that.

I can get my head around killing sick/elderly deer, but for the RSPCA to kill a perfectly healthy animal when it was their own damned fault he got as tame, is beyond reproach. There would have been plenty places that could have taken him in. Shame on them!! I have seen quite a few episodes of Wildlife SOS where they have successfully rehabilitated deer and released them back into the wild. It CAN be done.

Alex, thank you for proving that deer can be excellent pets. LOVE your photo. :)
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I KNOW we have too many humans on this planet which is one reason why I hate this countries benefits system which currently encourages people to have children. Another reason why I dont believe in IVF treatment. The world is in a mess because of humans

Just because something can be done, doesnt mean it should be done. The simple fact is we need to reduce the human population but the politicians wont deal with that. The public need to be correctly educated into countryside management.

In 2008 there were 74,000 reported incidents of collisions between deers and cars, if numbers are not controlled this will increase, posing a greater risk to car drivers on the road.

The number of deer also threatens the successful regeneration of our native woodlands and the ground vegetation found within forests as a result of them being browsers. This reduces the available habitat for other species and threatening the survival of many of britains native plants, birds, invertebrates and could potentially result in the extinction of the capercaillie once more.
 
lizzie_liz said:
Well yes but we all know how selfish the human race are, if deer accidents increase people will be complaining and wanting their numbers reduced. You just can't win.
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The RSPCA at it`s best! How about an "open season " :Don humes then?That could reduce the population a bit.:D:D
 
Alexart said:
I don't know why they put it down? If it was healthy and happy as a tame deer then why not put it in someones deer park or with someone that wants a pet deer, why try and release a tame animal back into the wild as it's bound to come into contact with humans at some point on this crowded little island, they should have known better - it's just plain ignorance!!!??
I have 4 pet red deer and OK they are not the brightest animals - I'd say one up from a sheep:D - they do make quite good pets if you have the space and facilities to keep them - I didn't intend to get deer by the way but they came free with some iron age pigs I bought years ago - I think the guy saw me coming!! - sigh!!
Here's my little red stag - now nutless I hasten to add as I don't want anymore:D - destroying the sprinkler!!
DSC_0039.jpg
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awww thats so sweet! :)
 
EAST KENT said:
The RSPCA at it`s best! How about an "open season " :Don humes then?That could reduce the population a bit.:D:D
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E_K,

that's been tried, on numerous occasions and it's never worked yet. Think WWII, Hitler, Vietnam, Cambodia and more recently Iraq!!

Back to Bambi. Keeping wild animals as pets doesn't work. The closest that you'll get to it, is the system that Alexart has. Male deer, of whatever breed, kept entire WILL be very dangerous, if they've been reared on a bottle. Many have been killed by tame Red stags. They will have no respect for humans, and in truth, can you blame them?

In my youth, I had a near countless string of wild creatures, as "pets". The list include fox and badger cubs, a variety of hawks, owls and buzzards. Two Roe kids and a Fallow fawn, along with leverets, baby wild rabbits, jackdaws, carrion crows and magpies.

Every single one of them ended in disaster!!

Three years ago, I found a new born Roe kid dodging cars on a major A road. I grabbed "him", and should have put him down, there and then. He was THE most beautiful little thing, and I heartily wish that I had..

Wild animals do not make domestic pets. It's that simple. Even if the creature is reared, it will have little fear of humans, its main threat to life, and for the RSPCA to not realise this, is rank stupidity. Releasing hand reared wild creatures, back into their former environment, is a recipe for disaster.

Alec.
 
Wild animals hand reared can certainly be kept sucessfully as semipets outside though, yes they will never be as tame as domestic animals but can be happy, particularly suitable with other semi wild ones of its own e.g at reaseheath which was local.

My neighbours used to have a pet fox in their garden, again handreared it was never tame like a dog would be but you could stroke it, it had run of their large garden and could have escaped but didn't.

I have also known a deer that came and went on a local farm that was semi wild but yes it was a female, it came to call to be fed you could stroke it, it could wander anywhere including into the surrounding woods but it always was only so far.

Agree the rspca must have been out of their minds to try and release it in the wild does not show much intelligence does it.

And wild animals do not make pets in the sense we all have pets however if handreared etc they can live with humans quite hapily as long as it is on their terms.
 
Over2You said:
And maybe this is why they tried in the first place! These centres day in day out raise orphanced young and the vast majority if not all are successfully rehabilitated into the wild, those that imprint too much cannot be released but the rspca does not believe in keeping wild animals in captivity, they do not support zoos etc so what choice do they have but to euthanase.

Is it fair instead to euthanase all orphaned wildlife instead of rearing it, on the chance that they may imprint when as said the vast majority don't due to the skills and techniques used at these centres to limit the chance of it happening.
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That was totally unjustified by the RSPCA, the deer could easily survive in a managed deer herd of which there are many. I've never heard of a castrated one but I bet it could be done.
What about places where they have tame deer, it could have gone there too.
We had a tame deer in our herd called Juniper, she'd been raised as an orphan and loved people yet lived hapily with a herd.
Yet another reason why I walked past the collection in Sainsbury the other day, only to return to explain to the people exactly why I will never give another penny to that organisation. When they allowed sheep and calves to drown in liquid mud during foot and mouth due to their own lack of brains, I vowed to not support them again.
Poor deer, what a sad end.
 
henryhorn said:
That was totally unjustified by the RSPCA, the deer could easily survive in a managed deer herd of which there are many. I've never heard of a castrated one but I bet it could be done.
What about places where they have tame deer, it could have gone there too.
We had a tame deer in our herd called Juniper, she'd been raised as an orphan and loved people yet lived hapily with a herd.
Yet another reason why I walked past the collection in Sainsbury the other day, only to return to explain to the people exactly why I will never give another penny to that organisation. When they allowed sheep and calves to drown in liquid mud during foot and mouth due to their own lack of brains, I vowed to not support them again.
Poor deer, what a sad end.
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Wish I had te balls to explain to the tin shakers why I walk past there pots in disgust but I always feel sorry for the little old ladies shaking the tins who have been brain washed into believing they are raising money for a worth while cause.
 
bexwarren24 said:
Wish I had te balls to explain to the tin shakers why I walk past there pots in disgust but I always feel sorry for the little old ladies shaking the tins who have been brain washed into believing they are raising money for a worth while cause.
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So saving the hundreds and thousands of animals that they do manage to save isn't worthwhile????

Yes there are bad decisions, yes there are dodgy policies, what large organisation doesn't have these??? But the whole thing about the rspca is that they mean well, yes the outcome of this deer is not what they would have chosen but hindsight is a wonderful thing, it's a pitty we don't all have crystal balls! But to just slate the rspca on the things they have failed on is very short sighted, what about all the animals they do manage to save each year?? Who else operates a 24/7 no fee call out for injured animals nationally?? Who else would take large cases like the JG case? My point being instead of people slating them and bringing the charity down, maybe they should write to the head office and notify them of where they are failing, so that the charity can start to address those areas. By spreading bad publicity all you are doing is limiting what the charity maybe able to do in the future........
 
competitiondiva said:
So saving the hundreds and thousands of animals that they do manage to save isn't worthwhile????

Yes there are bad decisions, yes there are dodgy policies, what large organisation doesn't have these??? But the whole thing about the rspca is that they mean well, yes the outcome of this deer is not what they would have chosen but hindsight is a wonderful thing, it's a pitty we don't all have crystal balls! But to just slate the rspca on the things they have failed on is very short sighted, what about all the animals they do manage to save each year?? Who else operates a 24/7 no fee call out for injured animals nationally?? Who else would take large cases like the JG case? My point being instead of people slating them and bringing the charity down, maybe they should write to the head office and notify them of where they are failing, so that the charity can start to address those areas. By spreading bad publicity all you are doing is limiting what the charity maybe able to do in the future........
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The money would be better off going to an organisation that actually cares for the animals yes. Not one that keeps their chief execs in more money than the PM earns and luxury head offices that only some of us can dream of. If they wanted to save more aniamls (and lets be honest they arent even taking in strays anymore) then they can sell their posh new office blokes, cash in some of their multi-million pound investment portfolios, cut the pay of the top dogs and their amazing pension packages. So yes, they save a few animals but I bet if the money was given to another similar organisation alot more would have been saved.

I would expect a large commercial organisation to have "dodgy polocies" yes but not a charity. One that decieves ppl into parting with their hard earned money by means of clever marketing campaigns.

A 24/7 call out system? I have rang them on numerous occasions and not once have they come out to help an injured animal and this is a commen thing among alot of people i have talked to.

As for taking on the big cases, I know someone who worked with them to write the animal welfare act and trust me they didnt want anyone else to have the job of prosecutting people. They wanted that all for themselves so they can reap the benefits.

I dont doubt that the ppl who work for these organisations have the best intentions at heart but the ppl at the top are motivated purely by greed.
 
competitiondiva said:
So saving the hundreds and thousands of animals that they do manage to save isn't worthwhile????

Yes there are bad decisions, yes there are dodgy policies, what large organisation doesn't have these??? But the whole thing about the rspca is that they mean well, yes the outcome of this deer is not what they would have chosen but hindsight is a wonderful thing, it's a pitty we don't all have crystal balls! But to just slate the rspca on the things they have failed on is very short sighted, what about all the animals they do manage to save each year?? Who else operates a 24/7 no fee call out for injured animals nationally?? Who else would take large cases like the JG case? My point being instead of people slating them and bringing the charity down, maybe they should write to the head office and notify them of where they are failing, so that the charity can start to address those areas. By spreading bad publicity all you are doing is limiting what the charity maybe able to do in the future........
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If they don't know of the websites, Facebook groups, countless forum threads, not to mention the numerous letters/e-mails that have been sent their way, then they must be on a completely different planet. However, they are fully aware of what others think of them. They will remove comments from their Facebook page if they dare to question their policies and actions of inspectors. Last year, they killed more than 60,000 animals (many of which were healthy), yet, over the course of four years, they received something like £465,3500,00 in donations and investments. Their average annual income is £110m. They ruthlessly take away old folks pets without offering to have someone help them (something the Australian RSPCA seem to do). Then there was the woman who was pretty much told she would have to rescue her dog (who had gotten stuck under a collapsed barn) herself. They weren't interested. They were contacted by a witness of that Yorkshire horse shooting (the one involving the police), but refused to do anything. The German Shepard dogs they callously killed WITHOUT even contacting any of the rescue organisations. They totally mishandled the removal of ponies from Cumbria moorland which resulted in the DEATH of the animals owner. A poster on H&H said she had contacted them regarding a field of horses in poor condition and nothing was done. Here is an Trevor MacDonald fronted ITN expose on RSPCA 'monitored' farms: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6549494456789987301# The main RSPCA segment starts about ten minutes into the video. The RSPCA claim to promote a number of freedoms on its endorsed farms. Freedom from hunger and thirst, discomfort, pain, injury, disease, fear and distress. But as you will clearly see, the animals weren't getting any of those things. How can the RSPCA possibly put its name on such food when it only has ten inspectors to monitor about 2500 farms. They say they cannot possibly monitor the farms all the time, but they continue to lie to the public by saying the meat has been given a high standard of life before slaughter. Then, to further their hypocrisy, some RSPCA director goes on the BBC's Watchdog show saying intensive farming is a necessity!! Take a look at this: http://rspcainjustice.blogspot.com/ How anyone can support such a 'charity' is well and truly beyond me.
 
competitiondiva said:
So saving the hundreds and thousands of animals that they do manage to save isn't worthwhile????

Yes there are bad decisions, yes there are dodgy policies, what large organisation doesn't have these??? But the whole thing about the rspca is that they mean well, yes the outcome of this deer is not what they would have chosen but hindsight is a wonderful thing, it's a pitty we don't all have crystal balls! But to just slate the rspca on the things they have failed on is very short sighted, what about all the animals they do manage to save each year?? Who else operates a 24/7 no fee call out for injured animals nationally?? Who else would take large cases like the JG case? My point being instead of people slating them and bringing the charity down, maybe they should write to the head office and notify them of where they are failing, so that the charity can start to address those areas. By spreading bad publicity all you are doing is limiting what the charity maybe able to do in the future........
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CD they don't have a 24/7 call out service. And will actually only ocassionally come out to an injured animal - and never a wild one. The only reason why they were involved in the JG case is because of the initial intervention of other welfare organisations. They certainly had not shown an ounce of concern prior to that - despite being contacted many, many times.

As for limiting what the charity can do in future - it limits itself, by choice.

They are a disgrace.
 
More lies!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umFZoCGrdPw I have known for many years the RSPCA has no jurisdiction north-of-the-border, but not everyone does. I often have to correct people when they refer to the RSPCA, but meaning the Scottish SPCA. Pay close attention to the RSPCA statement at 1.56. It says it goes to great lengths to ensure its adverts are not shown in Scotland. Yeah right!! They are on many of the national channels. I have also seen RSPCA greeting cards in Scottish shops. There are NO disclaimers telling people that Scottish animals won't see a penny of the card sales.

Horrid organization!!
 
amymay said:
CD they don't have a 24/7 call out service. And will actually only ocassionally come out to an injured animal - and never a wild one. The only reason why they were involved in the JG case is because of the initial intervention of other welfare organisations. They certainly had not shown an ounce of concern prior to that - despite being contacted many, many times.

As for limiting what the charity can do in future - it limits itself, by choice.

They are a disgrace.
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Please know what you are talking about before making such statements, I realise that some people may have felt let down on some call or another, but instead of it being because they don't care it is actual because they couldn't as opposed to wouldn't, this organisation is a charity with relatively few field officers dealing with thousands of jobs, to blanket say there is no 24/7 cover and that no wildlife is ever collected is seriously inaccurate:

http://www.rspca.org.uk/in-action/aboutus/whatwedo/rescue

135,295 animals rescued in 2009 and I can guarantee you that the vast majority of that figure is in actual fact wildlife!! I could list thousands of stories of wildlife rescued just browse through the rspca website or look at your local newspaper website for past stories!

With regard to the JG case I don't know as any of you don't what the circumstances were before the removal etc, but often the law restricts what can and can't be done, as far as the payment of boarding and bringing the case is concerned the rspca were severely out of pocket in bringing the prosecution, costing them millions. No other charity brings prosecutions they all pass cases onto the rspca to do this, not from any legal point of view but from a training and financial point. the CPS or animal health/trading standards office would never have paid for the boarding of 100 plus horses! The horses would have likely been sold under court order through sales rings and likely straight back into the hands that once hurt them!

With regard to income and expenditure here is the link for all to see what it costs to run an animal charity this large: http://www.charity-commission.gov.u...steredCharityNumber=219099&SubsidiaryNumber=0
£129,251,000 income BUT: £119,339,000 expenditure!! Vet bills for injured/sick animals are not cheap not to mention boarding and cases!!

With regard to head offices and large wages at the top, whilst I would agree with you that the money should be spent more at the front end of things, if you take it in comparison with other large charities the figures are pretty similar %'s!

Now with regard to those animals euthanased, yes we all like to think about say the dogs trust who never put a healthy animal to sleep etc, now how happy would an aggressive dog be living in a kennel for life?? Or what happens to all those strays that are found that other charities including the rspca have no room for??? Are domestic rabbits, ferrets, parrots, etc etc supposed to roam the streets??? Cat abandonments are at an all time high, where are they all supposed to go when every shelter/establishment is full??

And finally with regard to other cases such as this original story, policies, etc etc, as has been proven on here often, everyone has their own opinion of right and wrong, one organisation is never going to live up to everyones version of what is right. Even in this thread alone there have been varying opinions about what should and should't happen to injured/orphaned wildlife. Which is why the rspca stick to being non 'speciesist', working within the law and always ensuring the welfare of the animal is maintained.

I also realise that the rspca is like marmite, you either love em or hate em!!! I'm not trying to sway anyone one way or another, either their policies you agree with or you don't I just wanted to point out a few inaccuries raised in this thread and put the counter arguement out there.
 
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