Bar shoes? Or no bar shoes?

[bgray1981]

Hi,

My horse went lame last year. We had him x-rayed which didn't show anything. Vets suggested either MRI or 6 months off. We went with the cheaper option of having 6 months off. Vet also suggested putting bar shoes on him. (They loosely diagnosed him with bi-lateral soft tissue damage to both front heels).

Anyway, he has had his 6 months off and a different vet came and said he appeared sound and to start 6 weeks of walk with him and go from there. He is still in bar shoes but vet and farrier only see this as a short term process.

In my head if he needs the extra support from them and he's sound then leave well alone as I don't want to put him back on normal shoes then the possibility of him going lame again and having to start the whole process again.

Also, a different vet again that's been out to me says her farrier will only shoe warmbloods in bar shoes and whilst watching Olympia at Christmas. Judy Harvey (commentating the dressage) stated that a lot of dressage horses have to/need to be on bar shoes.

Can bar shoes do damage? What are peoples thoughts please.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Well I've just had a stint of bars + wedges on my horse from last August to Jan, they were put on for a limb issue rather than foot issue.
However I feel they altered her hoof balance negatively and made her lamer, I also think they contributed to an abscess and stresses on her feet.

However, and this is a big however, my horse has poor medio-lateral imbalance anyway and is positive for Cushings. Both these things mean her feet are very sensitive to change, in my opinion. We are now starting a barefoot journey, but before the abscess my vet had agreed to try normal shoes again, but that was because she still wasn't sound.

I would very much go with if it aint broke don't fix it now!

x x

 

[monkeymad]

My horse is about to go into heart bar shoes for bruising to her pedal bone. I don't aim to keep her in them long term, but I will definitely have her shod with pads/vettex gel once the heart bars come off. However if my farrier felt they would benefit her long term, I would keep her in them. I just feel they are more likely to be pulled off when doing fast work/jumping. Perhaps some of the gel pads may help your horse?

 

[ester]

Yes bar shoes can cause damage as they take away any movement the foot might have retained in normal shoes. They also encourage contraction of the frogs and heels so take away the horse's natural structures for good function.

If your horse does have heel pain/damage to the soft tissue I would strongly suggest you do some reading on the long term benefits of taking the shoes off. I can point you in the right direction if that helps .
(Mine had 'heel pain' has been allowed to grow his own supportive structures and 3/4 years later has hunted the last couple of seasons at 23 .

 

[applecart14]

Yes bar shoes can cause damage as they take away any movement the foot might have retained in normal shoes. They also encourage contraction of the frogs and heels so take away the horse's natural structures for good function.

If your horse does have heel pain/damage to the soft tissue I would strongly suggest you do some reading on the long term benefits of taking the shoes off. I can point you in the right direction if that helps .
(Mine had 'heel pain' has been allowed to grow his own supportive structures and 3/4 years later has hunted the last couple of seasons at 23 .

Ester, I am getting quite curious about barefoot as I have heard so much about it. Can I just ask, how often to the horses feet need trimming, how long does it take for a WB type to adapt to no shoes, and what do you do, if like me you do lots of hacking on the roads in the summer or at weekends in the winter? Presumably you need hoof boots - how long do these last for at say, 5 hours hacking per week?

Finally (sorry for all the questions and to hijack this post) but if things don't work out barefoot, is the option to go back to shoeing possible?

OP my horse has lateral extensions on his hinds, and his offside foot on the leg which has a sprained suspensory branch, has the inside half of the shoe built up flush laterally. Presumably this will stabilise the foot and support the branch. The lateral extensions on the hinds were to alter the foot placementon the off hind to a correct foot placement. Its my understanding (although I may be wrong) that this is only for a short term measure (say 6 - 9 months of shoeing @ every five weeks summer, six weeks winter).

 

[ester]

1) I do miles and miles on Frank, with quite a lot on stony tracks and roads and these days I still have to trim him every 2-3 weeks! Road walking is one of the best things to rehab feet. I wish I could wear them out but his toes start to get long (partly because of how he wears them). To start with he had very flat soles so he has spent a period of time in boots for all riding for 6 months- easily doing 5 hours road work a week, and then just for stoney hacking and now I still have them in case but can't remember when I last used them. I am still on the original pair (easyboot gloves) and they seem to last forever . I have replaced a gaiter and some screws at one point. We hunted yesterday, I was on him from 10 until 4 plenty of roads and stoney tracks in the woods and they will need a trim this weekend.

2) Yes of course, a break from shoes correctly done rarely does them any harm. Cally had hers off while mum was rehabbing her suspensory but she has chosen to have shoes back on now. I probably wouldn't have but her choice . I did it the other way, put bar shoes on, they didn't resolve the problem, so took them off as if he didn't come right he was retiring anyway.

3) I think it depends what the feet are like to start with rather than type with regards to how fast they adapt. We took it probably overly slowly as I was rehabbing a lameness too and he needed his palmar hoof to beef up and get his pedal bone up a bit so that he could get some sole concavity. When I moved him to wilts we were then doing more work, more stoney tracks which took him a while to settle with but his feet are better than ever now.

 

[stencilface]

Mine had a similar story to yours OP, although after a few months of letting him be to see if it would fix itself (bruise/hiding abscess/etc/etc) he had an MRI which diagnosed DDFT damage in both feet. He had bar shoes on for 8 weeks and showed pretty much no improvement in his lameness, except when walking in a straight line he appeared more comfortable. Mine started barefoot rehab at the start of January and is now 5 weeks in.

i am hoping he will come sound, or at least sounder by the end of the rehab period of 12 weeks and that I will be a little bit more in the know about his feet. Taking the shoes off and going abotu barefoot the right way can have a very positive outcome for horses with these injuries. Mostly the evidence is anecdotal, but in the horse world we often only have that to go on!

 

[smellsofhorse]

I'm a recent barefoot convert.

I know most people sigh and think "hippy"!

But im not, I've read lost and researched and it makes total sense, why shoes are so bad for horses.

In answer go your question, the bar shoesay show an improvement now, but it is only a short term fix and will make the hoof and heal and everything related weaker, so even if the problem is higher up, the hoof won't be doing its job properly.

 

[FfionWinnie]

You've got to read the Rockley farm blog. Once you've done that and seen some of the utterly horrific looking shod (lame) feet they work with, and the difference in these horses, I can't imagine you will want to do anything other than get the shoes off.

All of mine self trim. None have any issues with their feet, it's just what I prefer to do, but thoughts are changing on feet and shoes as is our understanding.

I keep saying this but horses have been walking on their own feet for hundreds of years. Going barefoot isn't actually that hard.

There are loads of amazing stories of end of the line lameness cases which get back to a productive sound life after a barefoot rehab, even just within the HHO community, that it is absolutely what I would look at doing if I were in your position.

 

[tallyho!]

Shoes off every time.

Bar shoes try to emulate even loading but allow no movement.. counterproductive.

Please, look outside the box.

 

[amandaco2]

Id also try unshod.

 

[ester]

Lol I am so far from being a hippy, it drives me nuts that I cant link to nice peer reviewed statistically significant research on it and am not the only scientist on this forum that has that issue . But it does have unarguable logic behind it, and appears to work!

 

[nikicb]

Lol I am so far from being a hippy, it drives me nuts that I cant link to nice peer reviewed statistically significant research on it and am not the only scientist on this forum that has that issue . But it does have unarguable logic behind it, and appears to work!

I so agree with you and I too am worried about becoming some sort of evangelist/hippy when it comes to horse ownership, and not just on the shoeing front. As you know I am trying to get my head around why people just whack a shoe on something that is sore without. Good luck OP - please keep us updated. It is my belief, as trivial as that may be, that finding out the reason why a horse is feeling pain and addressing it, is far more important that shoeing for the symptoms. xx

 

[stencilface]

God, I'm barefoot, treeless and ride with no noseband!

Hippy alert!!

 

[ester]

Thank God for my Ideal saddle! (my noseband only seems to come out for hunting these days, one less thing to clean!)

 

[tallyho!]

God, I'm barefoot, treeless and ride with no noseband!

Hippy alert!!

No real!

You are merely a wannabe...

Real hippies ride with no bit, no shoes, no saddle, no bridle, no knickers, no pants, no bra and I also believe you have to have your hair flowing behind you at a particular length.

To add, I think hippies only do stock still and gallop as these gaits are the only ones guaranteed not to cause chafe issues.

Go work on it girlfriend.

 

[Micky]

I have had a similar experience, laminitis ppid diagnosis and bar shoes fitted...after nearly a year had normal shoes fitted.. He wasn't comfortable so went back to bar shoes and touch wood, not looked back 3 years on... I too tried barefoot when I first bought him but after a year of boots and gradually (as suggested by my barefoot trimmer((Pete Ramey trained) walking out on gravelly road (no option, that was what was directly outside my field) I gave up as he constantly got abscesses...he has got separation on his fronts and I am happy if he is comfortable/moving landing well.... But if you want to try barefoot, go for it, it will either suit or not, I am a believer in it what suits one doesn't suit all...hippy or no!! ��...good luck.

 

[BethH]

After 10yrs in shoes, I'll be 3yrs barefoot in April. My horse is deffo happier in his body and more sure footed and he does hack well on roads, stony ground, in the school and before he became poorly, I was doing a little bit of jumping in the school and on grass and he was very sure footed with that to.

My only reservation is that the shoes were taken off because poor farriery had caused foot imbalance and the heels had under run by an inch and I wonder if taking the shoes off straight away caused stress to his hocks or whether the hocks were sore because of the poor farriery and then showed themselves as a problem when the shoes came off.

If I had my time again, I'd look at how poor the feet were first and possibly try to get a little bit of heel back under him again before the shoes came off, but I now would never put shoes back on my horse and absolutely definitely would never have him remedially shod, I think it causes more problems than it solves and if it does work it tends to be only short term and leaves you with a worse problem to fix. My qualified podiatrist trims my horse every 5-6 weeks and he now amazing feet with great concavity and my trimmer is just lovely to deal with & full of knowledge.

If you go this route, ensure as good sugar free diet & be prepared to boot or put wraps on if the feet weaken in the wet and you can't get them working enough, the cartilage sometimes softens from standing in mud all winter and then they go lame as the structures have weakened. As an aside, if I had a youngster, knowing what I know now, I would never shoe it in the first place. Metal on feet prevents flexibility, it's madness there aren't better products out there. When I did investigate re-shoeing, I founds a company called Equi-eze that made plastic shoes, seems a better idea to me as it flexes!

 

[stencilface]

To add, I think hippies only do stock still and gallop as these gaits are the only ones guaranteed not to cause chafe issues.

Go work on it girlfriend.

Lol, my horse is very good at standing still at least!

 

[tallyho!]

You've half cracked it then hehe

 

[tallyho!]

I have had a similar experience, laminitis ppid diagnosis and bar shoes fitted...after nearly a year had normal shoes fitted.. He wasn't comfortable so went back to bar shoes and touch wood, not looked back 3 years on... I too tried barefoot when I first bought him but after a year of boots and gradually (as suggested by my barefoot trimmer((Pete Ramey trained) walking out on gravelly road (no option, that was what was directly outside my field) I gave up as he constantly got abscesses...he has got separation on his fronts and I am happy if he is comfortable/moving landing well.... But if you want to try barefoot, go for it, it will either suit or not, I am a believer in it what suits one doesn't suit all...hippy or no!! ��...good luck.

Touching on the abscesses thing... my mare used to abscess loads. For the first three years of her life, abscessing was a frequent fact of life no matter what I tried.

I thought we had turned a corner when she started a hoof supp. and no abscess for 6 months or so... sent her away to be backed and third week in... abscess. Told yard to not feed her anything as at the same time she also got a very poorly tummy and was literally weeing out her bum. Turns out she is not tolerant to alfalfa after all this time feeding her the stuff and I guess the stress just tipped the balance the other way.

Since I stopped she has not had an abscess since oct 2014 touch wood! I stopped feeding anything altogether and she has a handful of grass pellets as treats. Anything else, including supplements, makes her go footy. If I need to feed I can only use grass based feeds.

I'm not writing this to say you should have tried this or that, just to share my own infuriating abscess woes. She's probably a unique case and we have worked out that her body is just extremely efficient at getting everything she needs from grass and hay and topping up with anything extra (apart from salt) just messes it up.