Barefoot cruelty

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FairyLights

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I know this thread may prove controversial but here goes.
From my experience it seems to me that there are some people who have barefoot horses just because they "think" its better, with no proper evidence, and/or because its not conventional.
For example a local woman has 2 barefoot horses, she is a trimmer too. I rode one of her horses recently and it was "footy" on the forest tracks which are a tad stoney. She chooses to ignore this and says hes ok. Her horses also suffer from abscesses sometimes. I seem to hear of more and more barefoot horses having abscesses including an endurance horse I know of which was PTS because of them. The owners/riders choose not to try shoes at all but insist barefoot is the only way.
This does not appear to be in the best interests of the horse.
I have both shod and unshod horses, whether or not they need shoes depends on the work done and the terrain. No way would any of mine do the amount of work I require of them on the roads without shoes.
A local riding school has all shioeless because they only go on grass and in a rubber surface manage, they simply dont need shoes.
With some people common sense has gone out of the window. Its time the whole barefoot issue was properly addressed by vets and farriers and barefoot trimmers made to do a proper 3 year course with the farriery collages. too many horses are being made to suffer from barefoot evangelists.
 
I agree about regulation and training.

However, none of that will prevent situations like you describe In the first part of your post.
 
The problem with making claims like the ones in your post, is that you risk looking foolish if you are making similar mistakes.

It isn't only barefoot horses who get abcesses, not by a long shot. It is perfectly possible for horses to work hard and long on the roads without shoes, either by proper conditioning of the feet or use of hoof boots. Shod horses can also be footy on stones.
 
I agree that you have to use common sense. Horses hooves constantly alter when barefoot, and there are times when you need to use boots.
Basically, I feel the advantages overall to the horse are better barefoot, as shoes just cover up a multitude of sins.
If you are going barefoot though, you have to be aware of the day to day changes in the feet.
As far as 3 year training goes, not everyone is such a slow learner, a good course or two with a knowledgeable trainer and the realization that there is always more to learn is probably best.
Farriery is a black art, and average farriers credited with a lot they don't deserve.
 
So what about all the horses crippled by shoes ? Is that not cruel?
My lad was on box rest and bute but still couldn't walk in his shoes but now he's bare he's back in work.

I agree if the horse is sore he needs boots if the owner don't want to shoe and shouldn't be left sore but if it was me I would want to know why he's sore not just wack on some shoes and cover up a problem.

I think a lot of people need to do their research to understand how they can help their horse cope. Diet , enviroment, stimulation has a lot to do with it.

I know a lame horse which bar shoes, wedges etc none of it is working and he's still in pain but the owner will not take the shoes off. I may be given him ;)
 
OP- at last some common sense. What you say is absolutely true . I ve seen various horses lame all the time and the barefoot excuse is that thry are 'getting used to it and much better than they were'. Rubbish - they are in pain! not every horse will grow a foot like a mustang - any faulty feet in wild horses means a meal for a predator.Yet the barefooters think every horse will be perfect if trimmed . Ah yes, 'trimmed' , by a person who has done a few weekends with the latest barefoot guru . If you do go barefoot at lerast do it through a trained farrier , whose 6 years and more training is somewhat more educated than a trimmmer [ yet trimmers charge as much!?]
I mean really - what came first - sore horses or farriers? Farriers prevent horses getting worn away feet when in a decent amount of work.
If your horse is in light wotrk then fair enough. But dont get me started on the endurance people whose horses after a competition have to be turned away for weeks because they are so sore....
Also, as barefoot is so much better for humans [ at least horses get shoes that are fitted, unlike us!] why are these barefoot taliban stood in nice comfy boots them selves?
 
cornbrodolly

OP- at last some common sense. What you say is absolutely true . I ve seen various horses lame all the time and the barefoot excuse is that thry are 'getting used to it and much better than they were'. Rubbish - they are in pain! not every horse will grow a foot like a mustang - any faulty feet in wild horses means a meal for a predator.Yet the barefooters think every horse will be perfect if trimmed . Ah yes, 'trimmed' , by a person who has done a few weekends with the latest barefoot guru . If you do go barefoot at lerast do it through a trained farrier , whose 6 years and more training is somewhat more educated than a trimmmer [ yet trimmers charge as much!?] I mean really - what came first - sore horses or farriers? Farriers prevent horses getting worn away feet when in a decent amount of work. If your horse is in light wotrk then fair enough. But dont get me started on the endurance people whose horses after a competition have to be turned away for weeks because they are so sore.... Also, as barefoot is so much better for humans [ at least horses get shoes that are fitted, unlike us!] why are these barefoot taliban stood in nice comfy boots them selves?

Tosh, lol.
 
Really? is barefoot riding THAT controversial here? I totally agree with the OP. Horses should be kept barefoot only if they can do so comfortably.
Some horses, by breeding or occupation, need the support of shoes.

For those that say horses never wore shoes for millenia,in the wild, well, the horse of today is not anything like the one of millenia past. We have bred out much of the hoof's toughness, and today's horses are MUCH larger than those of the past.

The draft x I ride has large, pancake feet. He is ok barefoot in the winter when the ground is soft, but in the summer, he needs the support of front shoes. If I were to keep him barefoot 'cause it's "cool" it would mean not riding him much. I don't pay for his upkeep to NOT ride him.
 
I had genuine barefoot questions, I didn't know enough. I came here with my queries and got the hell back out sharpish. I got the impression barefoot enthusiasts were only interested in telling me in no uncertain terms that I was an idiot and their way was the only way. (actually to be fair not everyone but mostly) I was interested so I made enquireries elsewhere and did find excellent help and advice from some lovely people who were interested in advising me rather than dictating.
This is a very scary and unpleasant place to discuss barefoot issues. Unless you are a spectator, as shown by the chairs being pulled up and the popcorn opened.
 
I know an idiot with a crippled, barefoot horse. I also know an idiot with a crippled shod horse. The problem isn't with the method both have chosen, its the fact they haven't gone about it properly. The problem is idiots, not method.
I also know horses that live out 24/7 who are not happy because its done badly. That doesn't justify all turnout being bad, just that the owner's a moron. It applies to most stuff, barefoot is no different.
 
I tend to agree that the training should be longer, there is so much to learn and whilst a few weekends may train you to trim feet to a certain degree, it is much more involved than that.
I think people are asking for trouble letting someone who has done a short course in trimming anywhere near their horses feet. I have seen and heard some horror stories! Some farriers may not be any better but that is why you should use a trusted farrier with recommendations, problems may still happen but at least you've done everything you can to avoid it. It's not like barefoot trimmers cost any less...
 
Erm.....my lami has just gone barefoot, tho I prefer shoeless;), due to him having a very bad abcess that burst out of three places. He had no hoof to put a shoe back on( yes he was shod when he had the abcess) so vet said boot him up and let him grow a good hoof and we will see how he goes. We are giving him a good four ish months before we think about shoing again that that's a maybe. He has had sore days as he has loads of bruising coming out but he still gets chucked out and when he has been sound for a week he will be getting ridden again

My two mares have also just gone shoeless, they kept pulling shoes and it was going to ruin their feet, so choice was made by both farrier and I that it would be best to just take them off. Yes they are going to be sore over the stones, only the one with flat feet is actually, but they will harden up. After a few weeks the footy one walked over stones yesterday without looking footy so it's getting better.

It's not up to you to tell someone that one way is bad, each horse is different and will cope in their own way.
 
littlelegs

I know an idiot with a crippled, barefoot horse. I also know an idiot with a crippled shod horse. The problem isn't with the method both have chosen, its the fact they haven't gone about it properly. The problem is idiots, not method. I also know horses that live out 24/7 who are not happy because its done badly. That doesn't justify all turnout being bad, just that the owner's a moron. It applies to most stuff, barefoot is no different.

Love this post.
 
ribbons said:
I had genuine barefoot questions, I didn't know enough. I came here with my queries and got the hell back out sharpish. I got the impression barefoot enthusiasts were only interested in telling me in no uncertain terms that I was an idiot and their way was the only way. (actually to be fair not everyone but mostly) I was interested so I made enquireries elsewhere and did find excellent help and advice from some lovely people who were interested in advising me rather than dictating.
This is a very scary and unpleasant place to discuss barefoot issues. Unless you are a spectator, as shown by the chairs being pulled up and the popcorn opened.
Click to expand...

Exactly this! I have now gone 'elsewhere' to get more information that I needed to make my decision to take my horse shoeless. Thanks to some calm, sensible, non judgemental but very experienced barefooter's help and guidance on other forums, I will be taking the plunge this weekend. But if after a fair trial it doesn't work I will not hesitate to put shoes back on. But I won't be posting on here about it!;)
 
So, it sounds like this topic is one that looses the rabid pack?
I am sure it is a matter of doing it correctly and not being an idiot. But, there is a certain attiude amoungst barefoot enthusiasts , a certain 'holier than thou" attitude that can make a person who prefers shoes feel like they're not "enlightened".
 
ribbons said:
I had genuine barefoot questions, I didn't know enough. I came here with my queries and got the hell back out sharpish. I got the impression barefoot enthusiasts were only interested in telling me in no uncertain terms that I was an idiot and their way was the only way. (actually to be fair not everyone but mostly)
Click to expand...

grumpyoldmare said:
Exactly this! I have now gone 'elsewhere' to get more information that I needed to make my decision to take my horse shoeless. Thanks to some calm, sensible, non judgemental but very experienced barefooter's help and guidance on other forums, I will be taking the plunge this weekend. But if after a fair trial it doesn't work I will not hesitate to put shoes back on. But I won't be posting on here about it!;)
Click to expand...

I've actually never seen any of this bad behaviour by barefoot zealots here. :confused: Have you got the link to the thread where people were telling you you're an idiot ribbons?
 
littlelegs said:
I know an idiot with a crippled, barefoot horse. I also know an idiot with a crippled shod horse. The problem isn't with the method both have chosen, its the fact they haven't gone about it properly. The problem is idiots, not method.
I also know horses that live out 24/7 who are not happy because its done badly. That doesn't justify all turnout being bad, just that the owner's a moron. It applies to most stuff, barefoot is no different.
Click to expand...

exactly!!!!
 
hahaha, there are so many, many, many posts on here along the same track on here now - done to death.....the same argument. PAGES of the exact same stuff. Do a search, and you'll find them ;)
 
The problem is that modern horses have been bred for athletic performance IN SHOES. Little attention is paid by breeders to hoof conformation and strength. In an ideal world all horses would be barefoot. I believe it is far better for them to be as nature intended and I see all kinds of problems such as under run heels and negative pedal bone rotation cause by shoeing. (Not all of it poor shoeing). However, we must also realise that there are some horses that just cannot cope without shoes. To persevere for years with these horses, is cruel IMO. And IME such horses DO get more abscesses than shod horses, no doubt about it. My two horses are barefoot. My thin soled, flat footed TB has boots on if I work him. My mare sadly after two years absolutely sound barefoot has had her feet (hopefully temporarily) ruined by laminitis. She is now in imprints (glue on shoes) and as sound as a pound.
 
So what? Report it then if you think it's cruel. That is what WHW and the BHS get my money for. If you think something is cruel, tell someone who cares.
 
I've just taken the hind shoes off mine as a physio commented that his heels looked tight, and coudl be causing the tendon/ligament issues I have been having. He has wonky back heels, so I've taken his shoes off for 6 weeks to see if his feet will spread at all and whether he becomes more comfortable. My farrier was a bit put out tbh, and couldn't see how it would make a difference, still nothing ventured and all that. I will be reviewing on a daily basis, and prepared for a bit of initial footiness, however if it persists I wil have the farrier out sooner and get some shoes back on.
 
Lol! Tally ho!
I think like most things, if you've not been through the process and tried it then you can't make a judgement really.
I also think that you can't change someone's opinion really unless they have a tiny crack in the door. I learnt a long time ago to do what I think and hope is best for my horse and not try to put it on anyone else. If they ask then I will tell but I won't get into Back and forths because if there mind is made up then I sure as hell ain't going to change it. I think you will generally find that most people are just trying to do their best that's all. My new yard owner had the very same opinion as you when we arrived on her yard and she saw how footy my horse on stones as we never really encountered them. She's slowly conditioning her feet to the change and I'm Pretty sure my yard owners opinion will change when she sees her rock crunchers when she's transitioned and conditioned thoughroughly.
 
It's not so much barefoot cruelty but uneducated people cruelty. If that's such a big problem it's not hard to research qualifications so you can quite easily find out who has trained for however many years.
Personally I do believe that every horse can be happy barefoot, however I also know how much time and attention to detail it needs to keep a horse happy barefoot, which not everyone can/will do. It's always best to make up your own idea though without being influenced by biased view points, or bad practices.
 
I prefer my horses unshod, but one is shod as it suits us all better...however I do owe it to him to learn about foot balance and diet and how it affects him in order to ensure the shoes are fitted to a heathy well shaped foot. I've no objection to either method if everything is done right but I've seen more bad examples of shoeing than trimming....
 
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