Barefoot hoof pictures - concerns

[Reacher]

Mr H has been BF in front for a couple of years and behind for several years. I have some concerns about his feet since he was last trimmed. Here are some photos taken on the day they were trimmed. I’d like some unbiased opinions of the feet from the hoof experts then when I’ve had some feedback i’ll add some back history / explanation and my questions. Thanks!
Front left (more pics to come...)

 

[Reacher]

Back left

 

[Reacher]

Back right (red mark is paint from a trotting pole)

 

[Reacher]

Front righti

 

[ester]

Thoughts
I wonder what was there before that required high rasping.
I suspect horse is retaining sole which is reducing visible concavity but I'd leave it there until it decides to come off
I would be fairly aggressively treating frogs.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I have to say apart from the frogs they look like nice feet.

is the horse sound on most surfaces? Some horses can have the most horrendously balanced looking feet but it works for them

 

[Reacher]

Hi Ester, by high rasping do you mean rasping high up or a large/severe amount of rasping? (Sorry for being dense).
Thanks re the frogs, that wasn’t actually what I was concerned about, but have made a note to disinfect them. (He got thrush in winter mud though I thought /hoped that had dried out now.)

I think you are right about retained sole, a previous summer he got a lot of retainer sole and I had massive panic about loss of concavity

Thoughts
I wonder what was there before that required high rasping.
I suspect horse is retaining sole which is reducing visible concavity but I'd leave it there until it decides to come off
I would be fairly aggressively treating frogs.

 

[Reacher]

I have to say apart from the frogs they look like nice feet.

is the horse sound on most surfaces? Some horses can have the most horrendously balanced looking feet but it works for them

Hi, thanks, glad they don’t look too bad!
Ha, well I was trying not to give too many clues initially, however, he has always been fine on grass, ok on tarmac but not as springy and sometimes stumbles on sharp stones. I have to admit I’m disappointed he has never been completely rock crunching (though I don’t have a rock crunching horse for compARison)
AFter the trim he went shorter striding in walk on tarmac and extremely short in trot - this was very noticeable and alarmed me

 

[ycbm]

From the rasp marks, trimmer appears to have rasped into the sole callous, which is an absolute no for me.

 

[ester]

I mean rasping higher up the wall, it's entirely possible its very light and didn't take much of anything off though. My farrier does it I'd rather he didn't but I tolerate it as I am the opposite side of the country!
ycbm I wasn't sure, it looked like it in some pics not others.

Given what you have said about soundness were the frogs in contact with the floor pre trim?

F was never rock crunching he was relatively flat, he retained a lot of sole 2 years ago (very hard ground) and really struggled (retired then) but not been like that since.

 

[Reacher]

From the rasp marks, trimmer appears to have rasped into the sole callous, which is an absolute no for me.

Yes I think you are correct that the trimmer has rasped half a cm or so in from the white line. So he won’t get a chance to develop sole callus if this happens each trim.
I think the purpose was to take the white line back to where it is narrower plus take pressure of the walls. Though this concerns me that this will lower the pedal bone closer to the ground

 

[Reacher]

I mean rasping higher up the wall, it's entirely possible its very light and didn't take much of anything off though. My farrier does it I'd rather he didn't but I tolerate it as I am the opposite side of the country!
ycbm I wasn't sure, it looked like it in some pics not others.

Given what you have said about soundness were the frogs in contact with the floor pre trim?

F was never rock crunching he was relatively flat, he retained a lot of sole 2 years ago (very hard ground) and really struggled (retired then) but not been like that since.

Ah, I think you are referring to the front left (white) hoof? This is his unsymmetrical hoof and trimmer tends to rasp the flare slightly. I don’t entirely understand the reason but had the impression it was so that the walk didn’t grow more flare

 

[ester]

front left, front right and back right.
Addressing flare is often quoted but we had no problem leaving it

 

[Reacher]

So my main concerns are:
Surely he should not be so uncomfortable on tarmac after a trim?

I’m also concerned hoof is getting sole thinned too much especially at the toe. I read Pete Ramey about sole depth and when I measure at the toe using a ruler across the hoof to give “ground level” there’s appears to be no thickness . Well maybe 1cm tops. Maybe the retained sole is exaggerating the effect. How proud should the walls be above the sole?
.....ETA because after trim the wall is lower than the sole and the outer half cm perimeter is lower than the adjacent sole

 

[ester]

IME they shouldn't, the outside of edge of the sole will also have ground contact.

My query re. the frogs is whether they are causing the soreness, but it wasn't an issue pre trim as they were slightly elevated.

 

[Reacher]

@ester PS yes I’d say the frog was load bearing pre trim.
Sometimes the frog is trimmed if it is proud of the sole and it is usually trimmed “sloped off” at the toe

 

[Reacher]

IME they shouldn't, the outside of edge of the sole will also have ground contact.

My query re. the frogs is whether they are causing the soreness, but it wasn't an issue pre trim as they were slightly elevated.

Ok so just from the trimming geometry I’d say the sole 1 cm in from the walls will take more pressure than the outside edge of the sole and the walls. .

 

[Gloi]

I think that the very dry MAy has caused problems with retained sole for a lot of people. I'm hoping now we have had some rain mine may think about shedding some of his.

 

[jnb]

I have a similar issue with my cob this summer, he appears to have lost concavity in fronts, is what you're saying it looks like this because of retained sole due to dry weather? He has very occasionally felt the odd stone for the first time ever in the past few weeks and I thought it was due to trimming and too much work, could this not actually be a problem then? He is completely sound on the road, tarmac, grass, hard ground just feels road scalpings if big lumps or huge stones. But this is new for him so I was panicking a bit and looking into boots
Sorry if this is derailing the thread

 

[Reacher]

A couple of summers ago he had thick retained soles but it didn’t bother him. I just flapped that he suddenly had “flat” feet. Isn’t thicker sole a good thing, ie more protection?

 

[ester]

Often yes, this is what happened when it rained, you can see the relative length of the wall (I don't have a before pic but it was pretty much sole level).
All of this came off with a hoof pic, the right hand bar came off soon after and the frog shed at the same time.

 

[ester]

A couple of summers ago he had thick retained soles but it didn’t bother him. I just flapped that he suddenly had “flat” feet. Isn’t thicker sole a good thing, ie more protection?

There was a reason neither me or the farrier took it off before it was ready to come off, but it was a bit chicken and egg whether it was protective or causing more agro due to the lost concavity.

 

[Reacher]

BTW, For diet interest, he gets some Timothy pellets soaked , with CHH minerals, salt and micro-linseed. Timothy hay at night .