Barefoot & National Riding Clubs

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Michelle73

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I found out something interesting last night, having asked my local RC for Barefoot Farriery lectures I was told that the National Riding Clubs are against it and they don't feel that any horse should be ridden on tarmac without shoes. My horse isn't shod - he was when I first got him but he's been barefoot since October 2006 and goint exceptionally well.

Whats your views on this?
 
The riding in my area is mostly tarmac unfortunatley even though it is off road
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But my boy copes exceptionally well with it. I just can't understand British Riding Clubs being so stubborn and not opening themselves up to new ideas. I wonder if it is the BHS input???
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My understanding is that barefoot is better for the horse and my farrier says that my horses feet are much better for having gone barefoot. ?????????????
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I don't know about that. I think they probably don't like the fact that in a lot of cases Equine Podiatrists do the trimming rather than farriers. As part of the BHS they probably have to tow the party line as far as who is registered and trained, and I would imagine the BHS would see the Podiatrists as not fully qualified like a farrier.

There's no problem with competing in Riding Clubs unshod though.

If your horse has good strong feet and can cope with the terrain and doesn't slip about too much if/when competing then don't shoe I'd say.
 
I think it depends on whether you get a trained farrier to do your horses feet, or someone that has read on the internet about trimming and calls themselves an equine podiatrist (an unregulated, and possibly uninsured, horse trimmer)

I can certanly see riding clubs banning the latter.
 
Yeah, I agreed with you on the unqualified trimmers. But surely the British Riding Clubs could actually be promoting this with the use of qualified farriers???? I don't know. I only chose this option initially as it was cheaper than shoes but its turned out to be fantastic and I wouldn't ever go back to shoing a horse unless I have to.
 
Well my riding club accept barefoot horses on their teams - friend of mine has competed and won at the area team SJ and done the eventing too on her barefoot warmblood.

Personally if that's how the BRC thinks it doesn't surprise me, just another example of our fusty antiquated BHS thinking.

Oh an Feufolet - I think your statement regarding barefoot trimmers was a bit of a sweeping one. Whilst I do think more regulation of trimmers would be good, not all are bad, inexperienced nutters. And lets be completely honest, regulation/legislation has done nothing to keep the farrier industry on the straight and narrow - there are some right morons in that!

Personally I think the BRC should concentrate more on whether a horse is sound and happy with or without shoes, than whether it just conforms by having four bits of metal slapped on its feet! Some of the standards of farriery I have seen locally at RC events are shocking!
 
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Well my riding club accept barefoot horses on their teams - friend of mine has competed and won at the area team SJ and done the eventing too on her barefoot warmblood.

Personally if that's how the BRC thinks it doesn't surprise me, just another example of our fusty antiquated BHS thinking.

Oh an Feufolet - I think your statement regarding barefoot trimmers was a bit of a sweeping one. Whilst I do think more regulation of trimmers would be good, not all are bad, inexperienced nutters. And lets be completely honest, regulation/legislation has done nothing to keep the farrier industry on the straight and narrow - there are some right morons in that!

Personally I think the BRC should concentrate more on whether a horse is sound and happy with or without shoes, than whether it just conforms by having four bits of metal slapped on its feet! Some of the standards of farriery I have seen locally at RC events are shocking!

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You see, this is clearly a statement made by someone that is 'for' barefoot.

My point had nothing to do with whether a horse has shoes on or not...it was stating that 'equine podiatrists' are unregulated in this country, whereas farriers have to go through years of training, anyone (yes that includes people with internet qualifications, or just a jolly good...or not so good understanding of horses hooves) can become an equine podiatrist and go about trimming horses feet.

Unfortunately this leads to cases of neglegence which is why I can totally see how a riding club could 'ban' barefoot members.

I am sure that if your horse was unshod (as in got regularly seen to by a TRAINED, REGULATED AND INSURED Farrier, not an 'equine podiatrist') and this was explained to the RC, they would have little problem.

Of course there are bad farriers, but at least you have the option of a governing body to complain too should you need too, and at least you know the people dealing with your horse have had 4+ years of training, and are required to be insured - thus protecting you and them

It is sensible to discourage UNTRAINED, UNGOVERNED, UNINSURED, UNPROVEN individuals from treating horses. Whilst some are good, many may not be.
 
Blimey FF, you do have a problem with this topic don't you!

Yes I have my mare barefoot, yes I use a DAEP, no I am not in any way "anti" farriers or shoes - I would have my mare shod in an instance if I felt it was the best route for me and her. I don't think anywhere in my message did I push barefoot as the only route for good equine foot care.

Said friend mentioned in my above post competes her "Farrier" trimmed barefoot horsey on RC teams - I know for a fact that the RC have never ever asked her whether he is farrier trimmed or otherwise, likewise my mare who also competes in RC events or my sister's gelding who does PC stuff.

By the way, have you ever tried complaining about a regulated/legislated farrier or even tried to get a more experienced farrier to admit publically that one of his fellow tradesmen as messed up? If you have had success in this, then I take my hat off to you, because from what I have witnessed, they all back each other up and close ranks pretty damn quick when anything goes wrong. If that's what regulation and legislation does for a trade, then you can keep it.

I would always recommend people stick with their existing farrier if they are good, but sometimes that isn't the case and to me I think choice can only ever been a good thing.

As for insurance, my trimmer is fully insured thank you very much, as is my horse when being trimmed by him.
 
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I don't know about that. I think they probably don't like the fact that in a lot of cases Equine Podiatrists do the trimming rather than farriers. As part of the BHS they probably have to tow the party line as far as who is registered and trained, and I would imagine the BHS would see the Podiatrists as not fully qualified like a farrier.

There's no problem with competing in Riding Clubs unshod though.

If your horse has good strong feet and can cope with the terrain and doesn't slip about too much if/when competing then don't shoe I'd say.

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The propper EP's have to attend 5 intensive courses and pass multiple theory tests. TBH the work from the EP's I've seen have been a lot better than some farriers.

Also as an owner I have a choice to employ whoever I feel is fit enought to care for my horse's feet. An incompetent wouldn't be employed by me and I'm sure any good owner can spot a cr&p farrier from a mile off. My mare is currently shod I'm not anti or for anything.
 
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Blimey FF, you do have a problem with this topic don't you!

Yes I have my mare barefoot, yes I use a DAEP, no I am not in any way "anti" farriers or shoes - I would have my mare shod in an instance if I felt it was the best route for me and her. I don't think anywhere in my message did I push barefoot as the only route for good equine foot care.

Said friend mentioned in my above post competes her "Farrier" trimmed barefoot horsey on RC teams - I know for a fact that the RC have never ever asked her whether he is farrier trimmed or otherwise, likewise my mare who also competes in RC events or my sister's gelding who does PC stuff.

By the way, have you ever tried complaining about a regulated/legislated farrier or even tried to get a more experienced farrier to admit publically that one of his fellow tradesmen as messed up? If you have had success in this, then I take my hat off to you, because from what I have witnessed, they all back each other up and close ranks pretty damn quick when anything goes wrong. If that's what regulation and legislation does for a trade, then you can keep it.

I would always recommend people stick with their existing farrier if they are good, but sometimes that isn't the case and to me I think choice can only ever been a good thing.

As for insurance, my trimmer is fully insured thank you very much, as is my horse when being trimmed by him.

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I have no problem with it...what I have a problem with is the fact it is unregulated...and exaclty how is your trimmer insured - who do you go to if you have a problem, how is your trimmer regulated, and what happends if you need vetrinary advice if it goes wrong, would your insurance cover it if you were using someone other than a farrier?

Currently to qualify as an Equine Podiatrist in the UK one needs to complete two strands of study covering the practical and theory aspects of equine podiatry as taught by KC La Pierre. A minimum of 200 hours of practical, hands-on experience is required, which involves attending at least five five day courses, held either in the UK or the US, as well as a final theory exam.

(I got that from wikipedia...by the way)

Whereas an actual Act of Parliament (Farriers (Registration) Act 1975) prohibits the shoeing of horses in the UK by unqualified persons and all farriers have to be registered with the Farriers Registration Council in order to practice their trade. To register, a farrier has to complete a four year and two month apprenticeship with an approved Training Farrier and pass the Diploma of the Worshipful Company of Farriers examination....which is basically a degree.

I know who I would rather have near my horses feet!
 
This does come from the society that thinks every hat sold outside of the UK is inferior - just because of the kitemark

Doesn't surprise me, and this is why I wear an ill fitting hat which is kitemarked instead of my ENHAP recommended hat that actually fits my head.....
 
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This does come from the society that thinks every hat sold outside of the UK is inferior - just because of the kitemark

Doesn't surprise me, and this is why I wear an ill fitting hat which is kitemarked instead of my ENHAP recommended hat that actually fits my head.....

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HUH
 
Hey FF I am honestly not trying to pick a fight - I think to be honest we would agree more than disagree on many points of this issue, but one thing I do disagree with is when people start quoting this :
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Whereas an actual Act of Parliament (Farriers (Registration) Act 1975) prohibits the shoeing of horses in the UK by unqualified persons and all farriers have to be registered with the Farriers Registration Council in order to practice their trade. To register, a farrier has to complete a four year and two month apprenticeship with an approved Training Farrier and pass the Diploma of the Worshipful Company of Farriers examination....which is basically a degree

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All that is true, but in practice the standard of farriery in this country for many horses is not good, so there is something very very wrong with the training. Now whether that is regulated or not, makes not one bit of difference, EXCEPT in my opinion it makes people accept bad workmanship because they think "oh well the farrier must know what they are doing cause they have done....xyz in their training"

If the introduction of the barefoot movement/trimmers is enough to shake up the farriery profession and puts its house in order, than fantastic. I am genuinely not anti farrier.

As for insurance, my trimmer works closely with vets on quite a few of his cases, he is insured (sorry I don't have the details, do you for your farrier?) and my horse insurance does cover my horse. I'm not a numpty, I would no more put my horse in danger than you would.
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And while you're at it FF, have a closer look into just how much time is spent by farriers looking at the horse's internal structures of their feet etc as opposed to learning how to make horseshoes, nails etc.

Barefoot isn't for every owner and every horse. It takes a lot of dedication and commitment from the owners. And we have all heard the Strasser horror stories. But any sensible horse owner will be taking an active interest in their horse's feet too - so at the first sign of someone doing something wrong would be escorting them off the yard pronto I would have thought?

But please don't be blinkered enough to believe that farriers are right in every case either. Like people in every walk of life there are good, bad and indifferent farriers, barefoot trimmers, hairdressers, lorry drivers, the lot...
 
Farriers have to study the structure of the foot, as well as anatomy of the horse. They have to take exams in it.

I am not blinkered...I am just very pro farriers!
 
Topic gone slightly off on a tangent
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I cannot understand why the NRC isnt happy with barefoot farriery.
Having personally seen the mess which a farrier can make on more than one occassion, I would be happy to use an EP not regulated by the farriery people. I wasnt aware that they had to do a course and take tests, so thankyou, it's something i will be looking into.

TBH it's just more of the old fashioned snooty views of the horseworld... ie if it doesnt cost you the earth it isnt worth having done. Lets face it, there are some pretty horrific farriers about, who turn up three days late, expect tea and cake, and then make your horse lame. But like any thing, there's good and bad. There may be bad farriers and good, just as there may be bad EP's and good. SAs always, go by personal recommendation, not by what qualifications they have.
 
Just a small point.

My horses are barefoot and trimmed by a qualified EP. When the EP comes to do my horses, before they are trimmed, she asks me about their general health, what work they are doing, their diets, and then she has me walk and trot them up, all this before she's reached for her tools. I never had that with a regular farrier when they were shod, it was'old shoes off, two sugars in my tea please love, shoes on, gone'.

And that's why I prefer barefoot, the EP's are as concerned for the whole horse as they are for the feet, they will balance the hoof up to suit the horse's gait and conformation.

My arab, wow, his stride now is amazing, I never realised how stilted it was before, being barefoot has freed up not just his feet, but his legs and shoulder too.
 
i suggest you get the facts correct, i am sure BRC are not agaisnt barefoot horses, neither are BHS Welfare...i know! However welfare are agaisnt unregulated, unqualified/poorly qualified people who trim horse's feet, or their own horse's feet even, this is on welfare grounds not because the BHS/BRC don't like it!
 
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I found out something interesting last night, having asked my local RC for Barefoot Farriery lectures I was told that the National Riding Clubs are against it and they don't feel that any horse should be ridden on tarmac without shoes. My horse isn't shod - he was when I first got him but he's been barefoot since October 2006 and goint exceptionally well.

Whats your views on this?

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As far as I am aware BRC are not specifically against horses going barefoot. The policy within BRC in all aspects is that the welfare of the horse is of paramount importance. Perhaps you could let me know which BRC area & which club you are from?
(PM me if you prefer)
 
Sorry Michele - off topic but I wanted to answer this as well.

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This does come from the society that thinks every hat sold outside of the UK is inferior - just because of the kitemark

Doesn't surprise me, and this is why I wear an ill fitting hat which is kitemarked instead of my ENHAP recommended hat that actually fits my head.....

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Well they potentially are aren't they........because they're not batch tested......all it takes is for something to go wrong with the initial chemical bonding process & god knows how many brittle hats could end up on the market. The first time anyone would know that there was a problem would be when the hat failed to provide the level of protection that could reasonably be expected of it.

I find it hard to believe that with all the different styles available you cannot find a kitemarked hat that fits. Unless of course you purposely wear an ill fitting one to try & prove some kind of point?

You may also like to bear in mind that the Pony Club, AND British Eventing take the same stance..(can't comment on BSJA as don't have their rulebook to hand!!), BE actually list the hats which are acceptable.
 
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Sorry Michele - off topic but I wanted to answer this as well.

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This does come from the society that thinks every hat sold outside of the UK is inferior - just because of the kitemark

Doesn't surprise me, and this is why I wear an ill fitting hat which is kitemarked instead of my ENHAP recommended hat that actually fits my head.....

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Well they potentially are aren't they........because they're not batch tested......all it takes is for something to go wrong with the initial chemical bonding process & god knows how many brittle hats could end up on the market. The first time anyone would know that there was a problem would be when the hat failed to provide the level of protection that could reasonably be expected of it.

I find it hard to believe that with all the different styles available you cannot find a kitemarked hat that fits. Unless of course you purposely wear an ill fitting one to try & prove some kind of point?

You may also like to bear in mind that the Pony Club, AND British Eventing take the same stance..(can't comment on BSJA as don't have their rulebook to hand!!), BE actually list the hats which are acceptable.

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I don't have the BE rulebook to hand, because I am not a member, but I do know riders that have enquired in to the LAS hats, for example, that are worn regularly by jockeys in this country and abroad, but have been told they can't wear them. Not because they are not safe, but because in the case of this manufacturer the EN marking is on the tear off ticket and not in the hat. Maybe if foreign manufacturers were more aware of this requirement more of their products would be accepted
 
WOW, I never expected this to turn into such an interesting discussion. Having read my original post which contains what I was told by one of my RC Committee Members, I feel that BRC are somewhat contradictory! They don't ban unshod horses from any of their events yet they have clearly stated that RC cannot have lectures about Barefoot Farriery. Now the way that this thread has progressed in discussion just makes me think that BRC are blinkered and should recommend lectures in the barefoot and farriery to open this discussion up to more people. At the end of the day, they don't need to condone barefoot but surely pushing lectures on it gives people the chance to make up their own mind with a hopefully well informed opinion on the subject having had the lectures. It just sticks in my mind that the RC Committee Member said "BRC don't think that any unshod horse should be ridden on tarmac" well, those that follow barefoot will know that you have to do the road work to stimulate the foot to grow??? Or at least thats my understanding of it. My friend who introduced me to barefoot had a horse who'd been shod by a not so good farrier - the horses feet were turning in and were flat like saucers - my friend has had barefoot farriery for 12months now and paid out for a hell of a lot of massage because the problems caused by poor farriery left the horse with a lack of free movement though his shoulder and back. I have had shod horses all my life until the one I have now - when I got him he was shod and I would say he is more supple and freer moving than ever since he went barefoot. Now I'm not against shoing or farriers and I use a farrier for my barefoot but have enjoyed reading the discussion that this has created.
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Michele -Please tell me where it states that RCs cannot have lectures on barefoot farriery?
Affiliated riding clubs are autonomous - ie they are entirely responsible for what events they choose to run. THERE IS NO BAN ON THIS OR ANY OTHER SUBJECT!!!
I think you'll find this is something your RC committee have chosen to implement.
 
In fact BRC, the PC, & BE also accept hats with the SEI (european standards) mark as well as the kitemark, as hats with that mark have also been batch tested.
 
Zebedee, I'm only repeating what the RC Committee Member told me. She did say that she would check if the policy has changed. Whether its a BRC or local RC thing, either way it is still a blinkered view.
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Well they potentially are aren't they........because they're not batch tested......


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Actually the kitemarking is only done once a year, so as a consumer I don't think it offering much protection per se.

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I find it hard to believe that with all the different styles available you cannot find a kitemarked hat that fits. Unless of course you purposely wear an ill fitting one to try & prove some kind of point?

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Thanks for your kind comment
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I have been to all saddlers in the area - which includes Derby House. NONE had a hat that fitted. I do not fit Charles Owen, Champion or other UK brands. Eventually found that with extra pading the HS1 gatehouse SNELL hat fitted.... guess what - It wasn't kitemarked....
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So I am wearing my mothers old Champion, as I cannot see the point in buying a new hat that doesn't fit when I compete BRC qualifiers say three times a year.

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You may also like to bear in mind that the Pony Club, AND British Eventing take the same stance

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Err no they don't!! If BE did this they would exclude all EU compeititors from bringing their own hats - BSJA are same as BE.

However that said I think the BRC might have relaxed their rules this year. I've just read their dress code and now it says EN1384 rather than BSEN1384
 
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