Barefoot on a livery yard?

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Charlie31

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I know there are lots of people on here who keep their horses barefoot successfully either at home or on a livery yard where you can tailor your own arrangements but I was wondering how people cope on livery where they don't have much say in how it's run?

The grass at my yard is very high in sugar and the horses are all just turned out in big fields. Our owner is not amenable to suggestions of things like strip grazing or track systems! The hay and haylage are made on the farm too. So even if you get the diet in the bucket right you're really up against it with the rest of what they eat. Stabling for some of the time would be an option but they'd still be getting the farm hay/haylage and high sugar grass when they're out. Also as I gather movement is good for the feet I guess stabling isn't great?

We have lots of gravel all over the yard too, which is obviously not ideal. And we are on clay which bakes hard in the summer but goes really wet in the winter. There are a few people on the yard who keep their horses successfully without shoes but most who do any decent amount of riding have given up and had them shod.

So are there any of you who are in this less than ideal sort of situation who manage to make it work or do I have to choose between shoeing or finding another yard? There isn't a lot of choice by me to further complicate matters.
 
Following this one for other peoples tips. I have two barefoot horses on livery which was originally used I believe for grazing cattle so the grass isn't entirely ideal for barefoot horses. Hay/haylage also made on the farm, one of my horses turns loopy in winter so I soak hay to rid of the sugar in an attempt to keep her quieter more than anything else.
We have heavy clay too and horses turned out in herds in big fields. Not a chance our YO would ever let us set up a track system or the like. We have smaller paddocks for summer use but they are generally reserved for those horses who are lami prone or otherwise injured and transitioning from box rest to turnout.

We have gravel and big stones all over the yard, particularly on the car park which is a blessing in disguise for conditioning those hooves. If you look at pictures of Rockley or other barefoot yards they have gravel to help toughen the horses up.

Fortunately mine currently cope just fine and are in work, one in front boots for hacking and one totally barefoot. Neither are prone to lami or cushings or have insulin/hormone issues or anything like that and hold their weight without getting huge so are generally easy keepers.
 
That's interesting. Your yard sounds very similar to mine as mine is ex-cattle too. Can I ask how much you keep your in/out during summer and winter? And do you fight to keep the gravel out of their feet all the time? I worry about it going into the white lines and causing abscesses.

Did your transition to barefoot at this yard? Mine currently has shoes on and his feet are very poor despite me doing the best I can with his diet, so I know if the shoes come off his feet will completely break up and I'll have to use hoof boots. That's fine but it's just whether he would ever grow a decent set of feet on this set up or I'd be permanently up against it that I wonder about.
 
During the summer (mid April - November 1st) my horses live out 24/7 only coming in for worming, riding, farrier etc. In winter they are in at night and out in the fields during the day weather dependent. In winter I tend to make the most of their turnout and because of my working hours they go out at 4:30/5am and come in anytime after 6 so they get a good 13 hours turnout minimum - thankfully we have no rules on the yard about when they have to come in I've not brought them in until about 9:30/10pm before and then they're back out by 5am. We have a gravel turnout pen when it's too wet to turnout so they do get some turnout everyday regardless of weather.

I do find they get some small stones in their feet but most of our gravel is too big and heavy to get stuck unless really muddy. I do pick out and check their feet religiously. The white line gravel issue is my biggest concern so I'm fighting hard to close the white line up. My 5yo gets abscesses a lot, 4 in one summer once, but funnily enough *touch wood* she hasn't had one since I changed her diet to no cereals, correct zinc/copper ratio and balancing minerals. All the other times she has had abscesses she has been on stud mixes which does make me wonder if it was self induced (me not her).

My 5yo has never worn shoes so never transitioned, my 15yo is currently transitioning and only 5 weeks out of shoes after 10 years in them and yes this is happening at current yard and so far so good.
 
Current horse is shod, but I've previously kept unshod horses on livery yards. The only difference in management was that they needed regular road work to keep them comfortable on all surfaces.
Both shod and unshod horses require the same amount of exercise to reduce the risk of obesity or laminitis.
 
A bit of a similar story to sasanaskyex but mine are at home on old cattle grazing, I have had one horse barefoot almost 2 years, the other is 7 weeks shoes off (story on my barefoot journey thread) I can split my fields so I suppose I do have an advantage but they do basically live out unless weather is terrible, I also have gravel on my drive which I have been walking my horse on as it is very good for bare feet, a wire brush is great for getting dirt and stones out of the white line I brush mine probably brush them every few days or if there are small stones stuck.

I think it can be done on livery definitely.
 
Thanks for all the comments, this gives me some hope as when I read the barefoot books they say that diet is key, and obviously I can’t achieve the perfect diet.

Can I ask if any of you have done it with horses with crappy hooves? My horse has always had very poor hooves and is the sort where neither shoes nor barefoot seem to be a good option. If the shoes come off he’ll be doing it to try and help a bad situation rather than because he’s a natural contender for barefoot and doesn’t really need shoes.
 
Charlie31 said:
Thanks for all the comments, this gives me some hope as when I read the barefoot books they say that diet is key, and obviously I can’t achieve the perfect diet.

Can I ask if any of you have done it with horses with crappy hooves? My horse has always had very poor hooves and is the sort where neither shoes nor barefoot seem to be a good option. If the shoes come off he’ll be doing it to try and help a bad situation rather than because he’s a natural contender for barefoot and doesn’t really need shoes.
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What are you feeding? Bad hooves are normally diet related
 
I keep mine on a livery yard. In summer he is out 24/7 with another horse on a field is slightly less rich grass than the smaller paddocks used for daytime turnout. In the spring he wasn't quite 100% without his boots but now he is fine. I use the boots on longer or rougher routes and ride bare otherwise. There is more grass than I would like and he is a bit plumper than I'd like too but I am trying my best to negate the effects of the grass by doing a lot of miles which seems to be working. I do offer him chop with minerals every day but he doesn't always eat it in summer though he will when winter comes.
 
Pinkvboots said:
What are you feeding? Bad hooves are normally diet related
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He has a low sugar and starch balancer and a hoof supplement with extra magnesium oxide, as well as salt and linseed in the winter. He’s really fussy so this is what I can get him to eat. I’m going to get some Progressive Earth and/or Forageplus for him to try but I really don’t think he’ll touch it.

This is what I mean about sugary grass at the livery yard though. Does what you feed make that much difference if you can’t control the sugar in their grazing?
 
why not try and take his hind shoes off as a trial and try and get them to improve. if they cope ok then take the fronts off and use boots at the beginning...most horses seem to be ok without hind shoes ..so you could get half way there..
 
In my personal experience I changed my horses to Equimins Advance Vitamin 3 months before going barefoot, had my hay analysed to establish sugar/starch content, used muzzles during flush of grass, increased exercise, employ an expert barefoot trimmer who advised not just on hoof but whole holistic approach. The trim is imperative to success, as is the diet, its harder work than being shod as you should wire brush & hoof clay twice a week. But its so worthwhile - shows up problems so much quicker as well.
If you don't have the option of reducing field sizes you can reduce intake by using a muzzle, soaking your hay, increasing exercise - you don't have to strip graze or track system to make barefoot work that's just how some people are choosing to keep their horses many of which have become obese but you can stop this happening on a normal livery set up.
 
I have never used a wire brush ever and have used hoof stuff twice in 5 yrs but never ever used hoof clay, so that really is not essential at all. We operate a system of benign neglect. I keep an eye on the wear and feed her an appropriate diet and thats it. I rarely even pick them out as there isnt much need.
 
I think success depends alot on diet but as long as you can keep your horse in work mineral balance is more crucial than grass sugar levels. You are actually in a good position to get the diet right as all the forage comes from the same farm so you can get a forage analysis done and get a mineral supplement made up to match.

I will also say that poor mineral balance in the ground can make it very difficult to get a horse comfortable barefoot. I took my first horse(s) barefoot on a yard with ridiculously high iron levels and, even with very tightly controlled diet all 3 needed boots and remained slightly footy on stony ground. I then moved to a different part of the country with much lower iron levels (almost too low) and only have to feed a fifth of the copper and zinc I was giving at the old yard and 2 horses are rock crunching without boots despite the ground being much rougher on the yard. The third has only been out of shoes a month and has seriously contracted heels so I'm expecting to need boots for a year on her, but even so she already has good sole concavity.

With regard to getting them to eat supplements, I have had some seriously fussy horses and have never yet failed to get them eating a full dose of my custom mineral mix. The method I use is to start with literally just a pinch of powder in each feed for a few days, then increase to 2 pinches, then half a teaspoon and so on. Expect the whole process to take about 6 weeks to reach the full dose and never increase the amount too quickly and you will get there! I also add brewers yeast and micronised linseed to my mineral mix to improve palatability.
 
Leo Walker said:
I have never used a wire brush ever and have used hoof stuff twice in 5 yrs but never ever used hoof clay, so that really is not essential at all. We operate a system of benign neglect. I keep an eye on the wear and feed her an appropriate diet and thats it. I rarely even pick them out as there isnt much need.
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Lucy you Leo Walker as its back breaking work especially on 4!
I think each case is different but we found as we were transitioning from shoes & in one case 15 years of being shod, it does definitely help to keep them clean & treat the thrush. It just depends on the individual & also the state of the ground especially wet & muddy turnout.
 
A short period of transition is different to doing it all the time forever. If you get the diet right you should get thrush anyway, or at least thats always been my experience.
 
I went barefoot with my old cob around 15 years ago on a yard which has old cattle pasture on clay - there were still cows there when we moved in! As Splashgirl45 said I'd suggest taking off the hinds first. I've never fed anything special long term although we did use Progressive Earth minerals for a while. The key for us seemed to be enough exercise, eventually on a wide range of surfaces and 24/7 turnout in a good size field with some reasonable drainage. Hoof boots with pads will help the heels to build up if this is needed. Our trimmer advises walk work on a smooth road surface to promote circulation and strong growth in the hoof. Walking over deep pea gravel also helps - but this is trickier to find in my experience! Hopefully with time you can then take off the fronts and build up from there. I'd advise picking out feet before and after work but to be honest we weren't religious about this unless we'd been over very uneven ground.
My cob has excellent feet and is very sure-footed, though as he is now ~30 and retired I'd say his feet are not quite as good as when he was in work. My son's horse (now 19) has also been mostly barefoot for at least 10 years but although his hoofs are excellent they are not quite as concave and I found him a little footier on very stoney ground when I did a couple of Trecs with him a few years ago. If I'd done more I would have bought him front boots. My younger cob has never had shoes at all - definitely much easier than trying to transition an older horse! Good luck!
 
I feel your pain OP. I kept my two at livery for many years, but always struggled especially with my metabolic one. I moved yards several times - the worst was one had lush, fertilized cattle pasture, no turnout in winter, and no strip grazing allowed - he was a farmer who just didn't understand the needs of horses. The best was on chalk and old pasture, where I had a stable plus a concrete turnout area adjoining. I was lucky enough to get my own place after that, but I think I did 6 yards in 7 yrs in the struggle to find somewhere I could manage my two horses of differing needs successfully.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I think I’m going to get an analysis of our grazing done based on some of the comments here. I suppose I hadn’t realised just how big a difference it can make. I do expect that the minerals in our grazing will be wildly unbalanced one way or another though! We have separate summer and winter fields and then different fields again where the hay and haylage are grown and all seem to have slightly different mixes of grass. Will I need to get them all analysed or do the mineral levels tend to depend more on the underlying soil does anybody know? I can start with our summer field anyway as that’s where they are now and then take it from there.

Landcruiser said:
I feel your pain OP. I kept my two at livery for many years, but always struggled especially with my metabolic one. I moved yards several times - the worst was one had lush, fertilized cattle pasture, no turnout in winter, and no strip grazing allowed - he was a farmer who just didn't understand the needs of horses. The best was on chalk and old pasture, where I had a stable plus a concrete turnout area adjoining. I was lucky enough to get my own place after that, but I think I did 6 yards in 7 yrs in the struggle to find somewhere I could manage my two horses of differing needs successfully.
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It’s difficult isn’t it? I have been pondering for some time now whether to look for another yard, not just because of his hooves but for various other reasons too. I don’t live in a very good area for yards though, as it sounds like you didn’t, and that is made more difficult by his various special needs. I would so much love to get my own land but sadly I just can’t see that happening in the near future. It can make life challenging on a livery yard when your horse isn’t straightforward though, that’s for sure.
 
I'm interested in the replies here too, mine are both barefoot and I have had some fantastic advice on here.

I really wish I could bring mine home, like landcruiser I've struggled on yards where grass and turnout is restricted in winter and they are out on long grass in sumer, again a farmer that just didn't know.

My gelding is pigeon toed and gets footy on grass (edit thats meant to be from eating grass), and I have recently come across information on grass affected horses which started to resound with me and I have been feeding loose salt to try balance him with his minimal feed.

With two I must stay I struggle as their needs are very different. The mare gets tubby on air, gets a woegous grass belly (she is a little older) and my gelding is a stressy sort that drops weight very easily.
 
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Charlie31 said:
Thanks for all the replies. I think I’m going to get an analysis of our grazing done based on some of the comments here. I suppose I hadn’t realised just how big a difference it can make. I do expect that the minerals in our grazing will be wildly unbalanced one way or another though! We have separate summer and winter fields and then different fields again where the hay and haylage are grown and all seem to have slightly different mixes of grass. Will I need to get them all analysed or do the mineral levels tend to depend more on the underlying soil does anybody know? I can start with our summer field anyway as that’s where they are now and then take it from there.
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I would start with the summer field now, then get the hay / haylage tested when you start feeding that. If you can afford it, get the winter grazing tested too but if your horse isn't out for long or is fed hay in the field I wouldn't bother.
 
Can anyone recommend a company to do a borad spectrum analysis? I know we are low in magnesium but I have a hunch there's something else going on so I'd like a proper profile - and to be able to know whether the various minerals are high or low!
 
Forgage plus do one. There is also a series of maps which show the mineral composition for the whole country. So far its always been accurate. I don't have the link as I'm at work, but if you cant find it let me know and I'll get it off my laptop at home later.
 
Leo Walker said:
Forgage plus do one. There is also a series of maps which show the mineral composition for the whole country. So far its always been accurate. I don't have the link as I'm at work, but if you cant find it let me know and I'll get it off my laptop at home later.
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Had a quick look but don't think I found it, I'd be very interested to see that if you could share the link later.
 
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