barefoot probs,somethings just not right??

jackessex

jackessex

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 April 2008
Messages
310
Visit site
hi all my chap seems to be having some probs with hooves,bit of background,4yr old welsh x been in work since sep last yr,just hacking never been sore before does approx 1hr 5x wk mainly gravel tracks and tarmac,great feet tight white line self trimming,prev living out 24/7 on unfertilized mixed grass pasture,has suffered from thrush on and off since last yr(mostly only very mild thrush)but since about oct with wet muddy fields it has taken hold in two hooves,so he was brought in at night and now is only out for about 6hrs a day.i have tried everything to get rid of thrush,thrush powder,milton,apple cider vin,tea tree oil,sudocream,canastan,purple spray and it seems to start getting better then comes back again :( he is now geting funny about me picking feet out,frogs are shedding and although central sulcus looks good i think its in the grooves either side of frog (i can smell it)He is now really struggling on difficult gravel surface and really feels odd stones on tarmac,so as much as i dont want to im thinking of shoeing him :( i know this is not the answer but i feel i cant work him without doing something to ease the soreness.My gut feeling is telling me he is lacking something from his diet and that is why he cant "fight" the thrush,he is currently fed fast fibre,micro linsead,brewers yeast,mag ox he has unsoaked hay when hes in as we do not have mains water,i am wondering if he isnt getting enough of something as his coat isnt as it should be it looks dull and is scurfy although he has been recently clipped so may be dirty?any ideas would very gratefully recieved as im at a loss :(
 
Firstly, and you'll probably curse me for saying this, it is possible to be too aggressive with thrush. If the frogs are looking good for the most part I'd think about just slapping some field paste on and not scrubbing etc.

Also, is the horse getting any frosty grass? I can cause problems with footiness at this time of the year.

Maybe get some boots to hack out in whilst you figure out what the problem is?
 
Have you tried Red Horse Field Paste for his feet?

Could you bring him in to a dry bed for a few hours a day?

I've got no ideas about diet I'm sorry, milton, and an immaculate bed worked when mine was looking thrushy.
 
Def would be careful about what you're putting on his feet and being over zealous with the cleaning.

Id start on Pro Balance or Forage Plus winter balancer - I suspect you're maybe low in copper as this often seems to correlate to thrush. Also can you do some boot and pad work? The pads squish up into the frogs and stimulate them. Presumably frogs arent being trimmed?
 
I had ongoing issues with thrush at the end of last winter and spring summer this year too. Was never bad and she was never sore, we just couldnt shake it off. However, once I changed her mineral supplement (from pro hoof to meta balance after getting forage analysis showing that the mb was more suited to our grazing) we havent had any grips of thrush since! I still field paste 1/2 times a week but thats it.
 
There is alwasy the Cleantrax hoof soak, which is a bit of a trial as the horse has to stand with a plastic bag on his foot/leg for 45 minutes.

I used Borax dissolved in water and sprayed it on daily. This is very mild and it did take a while, but it works eventually. If the product is too harsh, then you are giving the fungus dead tissue to feed off. I would try stopping everything for a few days, and just keeping the hoof clean and dry. Then start with something that is "non necrotising" - i.e. is gentle enough not to kill the living tissue. Then you have to provide the environment where the fungus cannot grow.
 
TigerTail said:
Def would be careful about what you're putting on his feet and being over zealous with the cleaning.

Id start on Pro Balance or Forage Plus winter balancer - I suspect you're maybe low in copper as this often seems to correlate to thrush. Also can you do some boot and pad work? The pads squish up into the frogs and stimulate them. Presumably frogs arent being trimmed?
Click to expand...

thanks tg,i was thinking maybe a complete balancer and had thought the same about the copper,boots are a bit difficult as he grows slightly odd shaped feet,which is why i am thinking a little spell of shoes while i sort out whats happening,but he idea of ruining his lovely feet gives me nightmares!!
 
TwoTurtleDoves said:
Firstly, and you'll probably curse me for saying this, it is possible to be too aggressive with thrush. If the frogs are looking good for the most part I'd think about just slapping some field paste on and not scrubbing etc.

Also, is the horse getting any frosty grass? I can cause problems with footiness at this time of the year.

Maybe get some boots to hack out in whilst you figure out what the problem is?
Click to expand...

This sounds good advice.:)
 
thanks all its not the frosty grass as i thought the same and stabled him for 5 days to see if he improved and it made no difference,but the thrush became worse as he was seeking out his wee patch and standing in it!!:( i have also tried not doing anything and leaving feet alone (except picking out)and that made no difference either,he is on rubber mats and bed down excel(sorry sp)part of me is wondering if i do shoe him that when farrier trims :( feet for shoes it will give me the chance to really get at the thrush?
 
As Lucy Priory(qualified trimmer) said on here yesterday if the horse isnt sound without shoes it isnt sound in them - its just numbed by the circulation being compromised.

You can always tape pads on with gaffer tape :D
 
Sounds to me like it's the conditions that are not helping. One of mine has has thrush which has been difficult. I've kept it in the school instead of the wet muddy field for about 6 weeks, massive improvement.
 
In that case OP, I agree with PaleRider - it may be an idea to try and provide some dry turn out, as you've ruled out grass. I don't know about you, but our fields have frozen solid now; maybe think about increasing time out in the field?

If there's no escaping the mud then you may have to boot to ride during the muddy seasons. You could shoe, but booting is less damaging to the feet and the preferable option if the horse is comfortable whilst not ridden. :)

You could also try a grazing analysis. Consider also, however, that as a 4yo your horse will have finished major growth spurts, and will no longer be using so much energy in growing. Its fairly well documented that horses often go footy at this age, as where before they could cope with sugar/starch levels in the diet due to the energy being used for growth, now that that is over they can no longer cope as they did. In these circumstances you may have to look at soaking hay or increasing exercise.
 
Last edited:
Orangehorse said:
There is alwasy the Cleantrax hoof soak, which is a bit of a trial as the horse has to stand with a plastic bag on his foot/leg for 45 minutes.
Click to expand...

This is what I did with my boy when I first took his shoes off and he had bad thrush. It's quite expensive and a faff, but once its done it is done, I didn't have to touch his frogs again for nearly 6 months. If you think the standing still with bags on legs is possible (I bribed mine with haylage, which he's not usually allowed) I'd definately give it a go as then you can start again from a clean slate so to speak. If he gets thrush again soon after a CleanTrax soak then you'll know there is something very wrong with the diet / environment.
 
right ive just ordered some pro hoof which i will start him on asap,and my thinking is that i will calm down on thrush treatments,and turn him away except to walk him in hand to keep his feet ticking for a couple of wks,and hope and pray that we freeze solid and i can turn him back onto track and keep my fingers and toes crossed that he improves does that sound like a good idea??
 
JE is there anyone nearby who uses the same water source for human consumption? If so, they should have an analysis, which the Council do free for us, and you should ask to see a copy. Ours is high in manganese and iron, preventing copper absorption, which can give problems with tolerance to carbs due to ineffective insulin management and skin/hoof quality issues.

If I were you I would supplement copper as a trial and see what happens. I see you are going for Pro Hoof and that should do it.
 
That sounds worth a try JE, though you'd probably have better results if you could get the horse comfy in boots and keep up the work levels. If that's not an option then in hand walking's better than nothing no work :).
 
It certainly wouldn't harm to try a balancer high in copper and zinc to give his system chance to be resistant to the bacteria/fungus.

Other than a smother in Field Paste a couple of times a week, I'd lay off the topicals too.

My old boy is prone to sulcus thrush.

Last August he chose to start coming in at night and I noticed he had a deeper sulcus than normal - a warning sign of infection.

I worried about digging out my topicals for a week or so - all the while he was getting feeds at night with balanced minerals.

After two weeks (and I'd still failed to remember to bring any topicals to the yard :o) and the sulcus was back to normal and there was no sign of infection.

He'd been getting the balanced minerals and coming into a dry area - and that gave him the ability to kick the infection himself.

This year he needed nutritional support all year round and was getting a bucket feed all summer. He hasn't had any thrush so far :).
 
I so agree about trying to organize a dry area for his hooves to dry out each day.
I prefer to soak severe thrush then you don't have to do weeks of scrubbing with this or that generally but I only look after my lot. It does sound like a break from the various treatments is a good idea and I definitely agree with mineral supplementation. My laminitic pony prone to severe thrush hasn't had any for over six months and I'm sure it's because the minerals I'm supplementing have kicked in.
 
cptrayes said:
JE is there anyone nearby who uses the same water source for human consumption? If so, they should have an analysis, which the Council do free for us, and you should ask to see a copy. Ours is high in manganese and iron, preventing copper absorption, which can give problems with tolerance to carbs due to ineffective insulin management and skin/hoof quality issues.

If I were you I would supplement copper as a trial and see what happens. I see you are going for Pro Hoof and that should do it.
Click to expand...

thanks cptrayes,the water we use is collected rain water and water brought to field in a bowser,there are 3 other horses on same pasture 2 are shod and have no thrush and my pony who has just recovered from severe abscessing in all four feet,yet has fantastic frogs with no thrush,but this leads me to think its a mineral prob??also thinking about it i had noticed that all horses have been digging soil up and eating it??
 
amandap said:
I so agree about trying to organize a dry area for his hooves to dry out each day.
I prefer to soak severe thrush then you don't have to do weeks of scrubbing with this or that generally but I only look after my lot. It does sound like a break from the various treatments is a good idea and I definitely agree with mineral supplementation. My laminitic pony prone to severe thrush hasn't had any for over six months and I'm sure it's because the minerals I'm supplementing have kicked in.
Click to expand...

thanks amandap,he comes in at night now on rubber mat with bed down excell(shavings)so his feet are drying before turnout next day but he is seeking out his wee patch and standing in it so he is not really helping matters!!
 
jackessex said:
thanks cptrayes,the water we use is collected rain water and water brought to field in a bowser,there are 3 other horses on same pasture 2 are shod and have no thrush and my pony who has just recovered from severe abscessing in all four feet,yet has fantastic frogs with no thrush,but this leads me to think its a mineral prob??also thinking about it i had noticed that all horses have been digging soil up and eating it??
Click to expand...

I have to agree with the minerals and vits. At least it would support his immune system.
 
If you have the diet balance right.. which it looks like you pretty much have to be honest. It looks like the environment is the likely cause. In a wild horse hoof this would all be a natural part of the process, however in a domestic horse with a performance hoof expecting to be ridden it becomes a problem... This is where i understand the problems come from having barehooves in constantly wet climates, even if they fair slightly better than the shod ones. In some respects.

I guess if performance is off you have a few descisions. looking at your environment and if it is suitable to continue barefoot longterm or if this is just a blip re staying/moving etc, in winter weather. Using boots and or pads. Reshoeing.
 
How are shoes going to fix thrush??? Do an as fed analysis like http://nrc88.nas.edu/nrh/ or feed xl and see where your current feed is failing then have a play round and work out the most economical way of addressing it, I have found most complete feeds and a lot of complete multis are no so complete for every horse.
 
There are boots to fit many different shapes of hoof, if he grows slightly odd shaped feet i promise we could get round that. PM me if you are interested in trying boots, just some photos help to decide which boot is best :)
 
Interesting you say he's deliberately standing in his wee patch. I know I read somewhere a while back that horses will do this to relieve the discomfort of thrush, because ammonia has anaesthetic properties. It's annoying, because of course it doesn't help the problem!

Maybe look at a topical product that also has anaesthetic properties? The Pete's Goo approach would probably work on this basis, and if it took away some of the ouchiness, it might stop him standing in the wee and making the problem worse.

I can't offer much other advice, because like you I have worked my way through every thrush product on the market with very limited success. Ironically, he is currently out 24/7 eating frosty grass, no hay and standing on frozen ground, and having no topical products other than a saline scrub - and his frogs are better than they have been for about 8 months :rolleyes:
 
maccachic said:
How are shoes going to fix thrush??? Do an as fed analysis like http://nrc88.nas.edu/nrh/ or feed xl and see where your current feed is failing then have a play round and work out the most economical way of addressing it, I have found most complete feeds and a lot of complete multis are no so complete for every horse.
Click to expand...

Shoes don't fix thrush, nobody is suggesting that they do.. but they do help a horse and rider continue with performance in some instances rather than extended periods of discomfort and timeoff or boots of course.
 
potto said:
Shoes don't fix thrush, nobody is suggesting that they do.. but they do help a horse and rider continue with performance in some instances rather than extended periods of discomfort and timeoff or boots of course.
Click to expand...

Oh right. So, doesn't matter about the horse's health then? Better we continue to compete and forget about any problems the horse has which we should sort first. We can always sort it out when the horse is COMPLETELY lame.

I like the logic. Genius.
 
Brightbay said:
Interesting you say he's deliberately standing in his wee patch. I know I read somewhere a while back that horses will do this to relieve the discomfort of thrush, because ammonia has anaesthetic properties. It's annoying, because of course it doesn't help the problem!

Maybe look at a topical product that also has anaesthetic properties?
Click to expand...



This may be why sudocrem often works really well on thrush, it is also anaesthetic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top