Barefoot question - i'm new to this!

[Arniebear]

Hi i'm an older poster but very new to barefoot!

Horse was sadly diagnosed with navicular changes in June this year, so our event season went out the window. After trying the medicated routes and shoeing (to an extent) i took the decision to take him barefoot after lots of research.

He had 2 weeks off in the field when shoes were removed and then we started hand walking up the road and gradually increased the distance and to riding him (hes a bit of an idiot in hand it was safer to be on him!) He was doing really well and was sound in trot (i wasnt doing trot work with him exactly but like i said hes an idiot so we had the odd OMG tractor i must run away moments!! and he does like to play in the field) unfortunately it then all went downhill and he became extremely lame even in the field..... i was praying for an abscess (as it seemed to happen pretty quick) and we had a few days of rain but sadly nothing was found and it was concluded he was foot sore. He was about 8 weeks barefoot when he went lame again.

He lives out 24/7 fed hay and a handful of unmolassed hi fi and progressive earth pro foot supplement. I treated his feet for thrush as soon as shoes were removed and also keratex hoof hardener. I am currently treating him with stolkholm tar every other day. He is looking sound in walk in the field but still not 100% in trot in the arena (i lunged him just to see him move) since the lameness (2 weeks ago) I've done nothing with him work wise.

What do i do now??

I'm wandering if we reached the stage where he was wearing his feet down quicker than he was growing them? he was being walked 5-6 days a week as i was told the more he does the better he will be. So i've just left him in hope his feet might catch up? or do i boot him? even though he was 100% fine on tarmac when shoes were first removed.

I've owned horses 20 odd years but never had one barefoot!! I am of course hoping and praying we can event again in the future i'm just not sure where to go now do i wait until he is 100% sound before starting walk work again?

 

[Leo Walker]

You dont mention boots. Do you have them and are you using them?

 

[Arniebear]

You dont mention boots. Do you have them and are you using them?

No i dont have any... wouldn't even know where to start tbh.

He is now happy in the field again still foot sore across my stoney driveway but he doesn't come in out the field very often atm because i'm not doing anything with him.

When shoes were first removed and for about 8 weeks he was striding out beautifully up the road.

 

[ester]

This isn't unusual, after a few weeks usually the feet wake up a bit and they go footy rather than it being a wear issue. Mine was booted for all road work from 6 weeks (when he went footy) to 6 months.

When you say lame do you mean worse on one side than the other?

 

[Arniebear]

This isn't unusual, after a few weeks usually the feet wake up a bit and they go footy rather than it being a wear issue. Mine was booted for all road work from 6 weeks (when he went footy) to 6 months.

When you say lame do you mean worse on one side than the other?

Ahhh ok i wasnt aware that can happen... i did say i was new to this!!!

So he was footsore on both fronts RF worse... now hes is still lame in trot on a surface on his RF - like barely 1/10th and short striding. He has been lame on his RF since April 1-2/10ths This is the foot with the navicular diagnosis which was diagnosed by MRI. He also had quite an obvious medial lateral imbalance to the outside of the hoof... x rays were clean. He was shod at the time. The foot is leveling out more now but still imbalanced. Could this by why he is still lame RF?

 

[paddy555]

I'm wandering if we reached the stage where he was wearing his feet down quicker than he was growing them? he was being walked 5-6 days a week as i was told the more he does the better he will be. So i've just left him in hope his feet might catch up? or do i boot him? even though he was 100% fine on tarmac when shoes were first removed.

I suspect you did too much and made his feet sore. When he became extremely lame he could have stood on something and badly bruised his foot. That would look similar to an abscess. When they first come out of shoes horses often do stride up the road as if nothing has happened then a couple of weeks later they become sore.

Don't worry, I would simply start again. I would also boot. Not all horses out of shoes need boots but for yours I think it would help and get you moving forward more quickly.

I would boot possibly with a pad and see if he is sound in walk on the road. If he is I would start by walking in hand or long reining on the road for a few days to make sure he is fine. The important thing is not to do anything that makes him sore. This included walking over stoney driveways. A sore horse doesn't condition it's feet and become sound it simply becomes more sore which then progresses through the body as it holds it's self badly. It needs to be sound before you can condition the feet to greater things.
put a length of carpet down for him to walk in over on your stoney driveway Raid the skips in carpet warehouses. They often give you carpets for free for poorly horses.

To my mind boots come in 2 types, boots for horses just out of shoes or for very simple work and then performance boots to actually ride properly in (cantering etc) Horses also change foot shape when they come out of shoes. It may help to post a pic to get some idea as to whether yours will do. If not I would look at cavallo boots with a pad to start with.
To start with measure your feet. It is best to do this fairly soon after a trim. Finally don't let anyone trim too much off your feet. That is the quickest way to a sore horse.
I am not suggesting you use renegade boots ATM but below is the first foot measuring guide I came across.

https://renegadehoofboots.mobi/renegade-hoof-boots/sizing/

 

[ester]

Ok, I just wanted to check he wasn't 4/10 lame on one side or something. I wouldn't worry about that as the foot needs to rejig everything and it's early days yet really.

Get some boots and keep walking if he looks comfortable in them . Re. boots if you get photos of his soles with a tape measure on them (length and width) and send them to any of our boot sellers they all give good advice on best fit. (hoof bootique/urban horse/saddlery shop/equine podiatry supplies).

re-reading it does sound like he may have done a bit much a bit quick, but also I took mine particularly slowly due to his age.

 

[Arniebear]

I suspect you did too much and made his feet sore. When he became extremely lame he could have stood on something and badly bruised his foot. That would look similar to an abscess. When they first come out of shoes horses often do stride up the road as if nothing has happened then a couple of weeks later they become sore.

Don't worry, I would simply start again. I would also boot. Not all horses out of shoes need boots but for yours I think it would help and get you moving forward more quickly.

I would boot possibly with a pad and see if he is sound in walk on the road. If he is I would start by walking in hand or long reining on the road for a few days to make sure he is fine. The important thing is not to do anything that makes him sore. This included walking over stoney driveways. A sore horse doesn't condition it's feet and become sound it simply becomes more sore which then progresses through the body as it holds it's self badly. It needs to be sound before you can condition the feet to greater things.
put a length of carpet down for him to walk in over on your stoney driveway Raid the skips in carpet warehouses. They often give you carpets for free for poorly horses.

To my mind boots come in 2 types, boots for horses just out of shoes or for very simple work and then performance boots to actually ride properly in (cantering etc) Horses also change foot shape when they come out of shoes. It may help to post a pic to get some idea as to whether yours will do. If not I would look at cavallo boots with a pad to start with.
To start with measure your feet. It is best to do this fairly soon after a trim. Finally don't let anyone trim too much off your feet. That is the quickest way to a sore horse.
I am not suggesting you use renegade boots ATM but below is the first foot measuring guide I came across.

https://renegadehoofboots.mobi/renegade-hoof-boots/sizing/

Yeah i do wander if we did too much too soon I was only doing what i was told

Thanks will take a look into some boots for him.

I do have some pics of his feet and they have changed quite a bit already not sure how much more they will dramatically change though?

Ok, I just wanted to check he wasn't 4/10 lame on one side or something. I wouldn't worry about that as the foot needs to rejig everything and it's early days yet really.

Get some boots and keep walking if he looks comfortable in them . Re. boots if you get photos of his soles with a tape measure on them (length and width) and send them to any of our boot sellers they all give good advice on best fit. (hoof bootique/urban horse/saddlery shop/equine podiatry supplies).

re-reading it does sound like he may have done a bit much a bit quick, but also I took mine particularly slowly due to his age.

No hes never been that lame just not right
I feel awful if i have caused him to go lame again... i was only doing what i was told

Mines only 8 and while i know its more than just removing shoes to go barefoot perhaps i rushed him too much i hope i havent done any further damage

Thanks will get shopping for some boots!!

 

[paddy555]

Yeah i do wander if we did too much too soon I was only doing what i was told

Thanks will take a look into some boots for him.

I do have some pics of his feet and they have changed quite a bit already not sure how much more they will dramatically change though?

Don't worry it is a learning curve. In general feet improve with work but they have to have reached the point where they are capable of work and just out of shoes is often not capable to start with

pics would help. Have a look at www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk
www.easycareinc.com
www.hoofboutique.co.uk
www.urbanhorse.co.uk

these sites will give you a lot of reading about boots and the various types and how to fit them.
if you send some history and pics to either urban horse or hoof boutique they will advise on what may be suitable. Pads to go in the boots also come from the above.

Easycareinc is the main US manufacturer of easyboots and, whilst you will not be buying from there, there is tons of info. on boots and barefoot in general that could help you. If you google Renegade hoof boots it may inspire you and also Scoot boots which are very common and excellent boots as you progress.

 

[Kat]

Don't panic or beat yourself up, you are doing the right thing. I would get some boots and pads though, then you can get more comfortable mileage into those feet.

I used cavallo simples when I was rehabbing mine, they are great easy to use transition boots and you can fit a really big soft pad in them. Check your measurements and get some boots like cavallos or easyboot trails or old macs or boas as these can take a big pad and are more forgiving to a changing foot shape than something like Renegades or Scoots.

For pads the EPS 4lb pads are brilliant. You cut them to size and put them in the boot and they mould to the shape of the sole and frog. They made my horse instantly comfortable despite being very sore bare.

Keep up the walking in the boots and keep up the current diet too. Ditch the keratex and Stockholm tar, if you have a thrush problem use Red Horse products, you don't want to use any paint on products for moisture/growth/hardness, if the feet are very dry you can use water but anything else interferes with the hoof's natural moisture regulation.

 

[Arniebear]

Don't panic or beat yourself up, you are doing the right thing. I would get some boots and pads though, then you can get more comfortable mileage into those feet.

I used cavallo simples when I was rehabbing mine, they are great easy to use transition boots and you can fit a really big soft pad in them. Check your measurements and get some boots like cavallos or easyboot trails or old macs or boas as these can take a big pad and are more forgiving to a changing foot shape than something like Renegades or Scoots.

For pads the EPS 4lb pads are brilliant. You cut them to size and put them in the boot and they mould to the shape of the sole and frog. They made my horse instantly comfortable despite being very sore bare.

Keep up the walking in the boots and keep up the current diet too. Ditch the keratex and Stockholm tar, if you have a thrush problem use Red Horse products, you don't want to use any paint on products for moisture/growth/hardness, if the feet are very dry you can use water but anything else interferes with the hoof's natural moisture regulation.

Thanks will deffo look into getting him some boots.

Does anyone know of a rough rehab program i could maybe follow??
My vet isnt massively on board so no point in asking her. I've rehabbed lots of tendons injuries but not navic/barefoot

How often is it ok to do stuff with him once hes comfortable in boots? 3/4 x a week? im used to him being in work 5-6 but im guessing thats too much? even in just walk?
how long would you just walk for? 6 weeks? 4 weeks?
any arena work ok or a complete no go? circles?

I want to do right by him i'm just not sure what to do!

 

[ester]

I think daily but shorter duration is the way to go. How long have you been doing? I would have been at about 20 mins walk in hand by the 6 week point and I think I stuck at that for a couple more weeks once he'd then been footy and then increased be 5 mins a week. We trotted at about the 4 month point on grass.

Personally I wouldn't do any circles because of the navicular foot lameness at this point.

 

[Arniebear]

I think daily but shorter duration is the way to go. How long have you been doing? I would have been at about 20 mins walk in hand by the 6 week point and I think I stuck at that for a couple more weeks once he'd then been footy and then increased be 5 mins a week. We trotted at about the 4 month point on grass.

Personally I wouldn't do any circles because of the navicular foot lameness at this point.

I was doing up to 30-35 mins daily (built up over the 6 weeks he was in work) with a slightly longer one at the weekends. Unfortunately my hack routes aren't great and once you get on a route you kinda have to keep going to get home - i'll avoid that one in the future! It does take about 8-10 minutes just to get to the top of my lane to get onto the main road and onto the best surface for him which is a bummer and does mean he's out for longer before he's even really done much on a decent surface I dont really have the best set up i dont think. I was told walking wouldn't harm him so doesn't matter how long it was as long as it was built up - which i did.

ok so ill just keep to hacking and straight lines basically for the rest of winter? seems the best option once i've found him some boots and he's comfortable. Shame he's not the best in traffic which means hacking isn't always enjoyable!

 

[ester]

Oh, I just turned round again . We also have a stretch of grass about 1/3 mile which we can only go up and down so I was able to do part road with boots, then take boots off for some grass work then put them on for tarmac home.
We were also scuppered by them resurfacing said road with grit that summer which wasn't very helpful
Personally I would, I think that gives it every chance to resolve. our timeline was shoes off late march, cantered in a straight line september, did some circles late october then carried on as normal.

 

[Gloi]

Hopefully you will soon get yourself sorted with some suitable boots. The links given earlier in the thread will give you good information. There are often second hand boots for sale which are good to start off with until you are happy they fit and the hooves stop changing size and shape. You can usually resell these without much loss of money until you get the right ones. I used to use Easyboot Epics with mine but now use Scoots though I only need them if I am doing more mileage than normal (an hour a day on the roads is no problem) or going on really bad surfaces.Good luck.

 

[TPO]

Lots of good advice and a great post by @Kat

Agree with boots. Movement is key but it has to be comfortable movement. That way the horse isnt compensating and creating other issues.

I have always used cavallos too. If you're on FB there are quite a few pages selling second hand boots at reasonable prices.

The pressure pads (mine were from equine podiatry supplies website and you cut them yourself to fit in the boots) were great for starting a sore (in shoes) horse.

I'd also say to consider getting whatever physical therapist you use out more regularly. It's very common for movement to change and stride increase once shoes are off and build up a better topline and shoulders especially widen.

With that in mind also keep a very close eye on saddle fit.

Feet First is a good book to start with but ignore the feed advice as a lot of it is outdated eg do not feed seaweed or high iron. Also a lot of (relatively) new research and reports about feeding haylage and soaked hay (bad for gut health).

Good luck. It can be hard but once the switch has gone on and it all clicks how hooves should function going back to shoeing is close to impossible 😬

 

[Native Pony]

Mine is a 10 year old horse and he has always been barefoot. To start with I got boots following advice but these did not suit him and most are fairly expensive and not as durable as the hoof itself in my opinion. Before him I had a lovely pony who went barefoot after after illness like your horse. Once the shoes come off there is a gradual but significant shift in how the hoof interacts with the ground. Blood supply for one thing and heel depth another. These are good changes but it takes a while for the foot to adapt. Some footy behavior is normal but don't let that stop you completely. Riding out at walk or brief trot at times helps strengthen the walls and sole. Contact with the ground and the hooves being used helps develop strong hooves. Protecting them too much is probably counter productive. I would not bother with tar, or hardener because you need the hoof to have a population of natural healthy flora and to be able to be dynamic. Hooves expand and contract constantly.

I would recommend reading the work of Jaime Jackson or Pete Ramey (slightly different approaches to being barefoot but both are minimalists and both were farriers too). My horse has lovely strong feet. I trim him myself but have had trimmers too. You just need to ensure the trimmer is performing the kind of trim you approve of. For example, I entirely object to something called a "performance trim" costing a lot of money but making no sense at all in terms of hoof performance and comfort

 

[emfen1305]

I am following this with interest, my cob has just been diagnosed with navicular disease in one foot and have also read barefoot is the way forward but he is currently sound in remedial shoes so scared to break him. Can't do anything against vets advice as bound by insurance but wanted to put a mark here so I could come back at a later date!

I also tried taking him barefoot last winter and had the same problem, he wouldn't even come sound in boots despite following all of the advice so very reluctant to try again!

 

[Native Pony]

I am following this with interest, my cob has just been diagnosed with navicular disease in one foot and have also read barefoot is the way forward but he is currently sound in remedial shoes so scared to break him

Agree with you. Why change something that is working for you?

I am just a horse owner who is well read and experienced, not an 'expert' but for anyone thinking of going barefoot it is worth doing some homework. Join an online group, look at as many photos of what the barefoot hoof looks like and ask as many questions as you can. If a horse is sound when the shoes come off that is probably good fortune. My horse will spend his entire being barefoot. He can gallop, trot and jump like any other horse and is more sure footed on roads and on tracks. When your horse has had shoes at some point, the hoof has adapted to accommodate the shoe and there will be an inevitable transition phase. When it works it is well worth the effort