barefoot question.....nice answers only please :)

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Slightlyconfused

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Okay so been reading some of the other bf posts and it got me thinking......I tried taking the fronts of my wb project mare last summer as she wasn't doing much and farrier advised we try as her back feet are to rock solid bf(nothing to do.with supplements as she would barely allow a trim there so we just let them to do.want they wanted.) Anyway when i did it last year by the time six weeks came round she wouldn't walk anywhere apart from on soft surfaces the ground was quite hard and I thought this would help her feet harden etc but as she was so sore I put the shoes back on. Just read one of the repiles to another thread and it said the wet conditions we are having at the moment is the best time to go bf as it suppers them more. She is due to be shod in Feb so am thinking of taking them off again but as she is such a good doer she isn't on any feed just good quailty hay and grass and i don't want her on any food as I have struggled to get the weight off her and she has only a few its to go before in perfect weight for the spring grass that seems to be coming through now :) her weight problem was due to regulate as she is very bad in her seasons so I'm hoping this year as she has been on it for.two years it will have done as the vets hope and reset them.

Also she can't do.a lot of road work as she has a lot of human made problems which are to complecated to go into here but hopfully with the help of a loverly man called terry she will be backed this year and not scared of everything.

Hot Chocolate and marshmellows to any one who answers :)

Xxx
Ps sorry for any spelling etc mistakes, writing this on my new phone and we havent gotten to know eachother that well yet ;)
 
Good doers on a grass diet are very likely to be sensitive on stones. From what you have described, I don't think you should try to go barefoot again unless you are able to restrict her intake of grass very severely this coming spring and summer.

Once you get her into full work you may be able to get her metabolism working fast enough to cope with more grazing and try again then. But at the same time she will have finished growing and require less energy, so I wouldn't bet on it.
 
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It sounds like grass and good quality hay may be your stumbling block.
However if you can continue to manage her weight,perhaps by soaking hay and limiting grass intake,she could be rock crunching all round in no time.
Good do-ers often benefit from a magnesium supplement. (I do get your point about not wanting to give a bucket feed-but you could try Pure Easy from the Pure Feed Company and just use a handful to carry the magnesium.)
This mineral also promotes a calm attitude,which might help her overcome her other issues.

If you can get her barefoot and rock-crunching,you will have a healthy horse for years to come. Shoes often mask metabolic problems so we don't always get chance to nip them in the bud.

Good luck.......and with the new phone as well!
 
cptrayes said:
Good doers on a grass diet are very likely to be sensitive on stones. From what you have described, I don't think you should try to go barefoot again unless you are able to resitrict her intake of grass very severely this coming spring and summer.

Once you get her into full work you may be able to get her metabolism working fast enough to cope with more grazing and try again then. But at the same time she will have finished growing and require less energy, so I wouldn't bet on it.
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Thanks, I should have put that she is 13 this year so has stopped growing :) she will be out at night and in during the day in the summer and she only has now 6lb of hay a night and is not rugged up that much as i like her to use her own body to heat its self as it uses more of her energy. She is also in lunging work and in hand work we have managed to help her deal with her fear of the bridle, she was ear twitched badly in the past, so am able to do a little more with her.

Xxx
 
We bought a cattle mineral lick. It has copper zinc some other things and we got the one with higher magnesium. They help themselves and feet are looking fab!
 
abitodd said:
It sounds like grass and good quality hay may be your stumbling block.
However if you can continue to manage her weight,perhaps by soaking hay and limiting grass intake,she could be rock crunching all round in no time.
Good do-ers often benefit from a magnesium supplement. (I do get your point about not wanting to give a bucket feed-but you could try Pure Easy from the Pure Feed Company and just use a handful to carry the magnesium.)
This mineral also promotes a calm attitude,which might help her overcome her other issues.

If you can get her barefoot and rock-crunching,you will have a healthy horse for years to come. Shoes often mask metabolic problems so we don't always get chance to nip them in the bud.

Good luck.......and with the new phone as well!
Click to expand...

Thank-you, its strange as when we got her she was a hatrack! The regumate put on about 50 extra kg last year and i was so worried about lami she isn't going on it this we are going to see how her seasons are.

She get soaked 3lb haynet when she comes in during the day in the summer from about 9am till 6pm at night but she is so stuffed on grass that's all she needs. I might just wait until she is in full work and try next year. I'm not rushing things with her which is why its taken this long to get her trusting enough with the bridle and i met a fab guy at my yard who worked wonders on another horse up there who agreed that she is petrified of people and just needs time rather than paying stupid amounts of money to those idiots who do "intelligent horsemanship" who told me she is dangerous just turn her away!!!

Xxx
 
I think it is quite a missconception that barefooters are better in winter because of the softer ground... as I have found out for myself this year!!

Having finally felt like we were turning a corner with this barefoot malarky - My 4 year old has never been shod but only came into work last year... building up slowly etc etc, on high fibre, low sugar, low starch, low protein diet, added mag ox, added brewers yeast and added biotin (all seperately and all over along period of time). ROCK hard feet in summer and actually coping quite well without shoes... the first major rain came in November, went out for an hour long hack, came back and all growth (we were a week before we were due for a trim) had been completely worn away. The wet conditions had softened his feet so much! My trimmer actually remarked that she found it more common for barefooters to need boots in the winter and ever since then we have used ours for hacking, still schooling barefoot but once again, he is due for a trim tomorrow and apat from needing his toe taking back, he really doesn't need anything much doing.
 
Janah said:
Try this forum, lots of good advice.

uknhcp.myfastforum.org

Jane
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Thank you will take a look.

I'm not sure how well she will take to boots. The one thing I don't get is if i change her fronts to barefoot why do i have to change the way I feed her if her back hooves are nice and rock solid through just grass and hay? She is very happy and healthy on the deit she is on has a nice shinney coat, skin condition is good surely going barefoot means more natural for the horse but then what is more natural than leaving on grass and a bit of hay when she is in? Probably a really stupid question

Xxx
 
slightlyconfused said:
Thank you will take a look.

I'm not sure how well she will take to boots. The one thing I don't get is if i change her fronts to barefoot why do i have to change the way I feed her if her back hooves are nice and rock solid through just grass and hay? She is very happy and healthy on the deit she is on has a nice shinney coat, skin condition is good surely going barefoot means more natural for the horse but then what is more natural than leaving on grass and a bit of hay when she is in? Probably a really stupid question

Xxx
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Hind feet are easy, fronts are more sensitive.
Nothing natural about UK grass fields compared to the Prairies and Steppes the horse evolved on.
She may be OK, but we tend to suggest you feed for feet before removing shoes.
 
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slightlyconfused said:
Thank-you, its strange as when we got her she was a hatrack! The regumate put on about 50 extra kg last year and i was so worried about lami she isn't going on it this we are going to see how her seasons are.

She get soaked 3lb haynet when she comes in during the day in the summer from about 9am till 6pm at night but she is so stuffed on grass that's all she needs. I might just wait until she is in full work and try next year. I'm not rushing things with her which is why its taken this long to get her trusting enough with the bridle and i met a fab guy at my yard who worked wonders on another horse up there who agreed that she is petrified of people and just needs time rather than paying stupid amounts of money to those idiots who do "intelligent horsemanship" who told me she is dangerous just turn her away!!!

Xxx
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I look at it the other way, if you stuff her full of hay [lpw sugars] she wont be desperate for grass [high sugars]
I don't think they make a three pound haynet, round here that is a whisp of hay, a peck of hay is about five pounds, a net is ten pounds
 
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Miss L Toe said:
I look at it the other way, if you stuff her full of hay [lpw sugars] she wont be desperate for grass [high sugars]
I don't think they make a three pound haynet, round here that is a whisp of hay, a peck of hay is about five pounds, a net is ten pounds
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What I mean by 3lb I have got a few really small nets that i weigh without the hay then just put 3lb of hay in it, soak it for an hour or two then she gets that. She isn't a big hay eater, if i try to stuff het full of soaked hay she will leave a lot and unlike it dry I can recycle it to my others.

Thank you for your advice.

Xx
 
Because the cattle licks are balanced for the grazing and horse ones are not! Also I am appalled at the amount of molasses in horse licks. I tried Saracen and they finished it in under a week! The cattle licks have much less molasses and are much cheaper because the word horse is not infront of the product!
 
slightlyconfused said:
What I mean by 3lb I have got a few really small nets that i weigh without the hay then just put 3lb of hay in it, soak it for an hour or two then she gets that. She isn't a big hay eater, if i try to stuff het full of soaked hay she will leave a lot and unlike it dry I can recycle it to my others.

Thank you for your advice.

Xx
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Sorry you did not get my point, which is that the horse needs more than 3 lbs of hay.... and if soaked for hours it will be unpalatable to some horses,

Personally, I think you should be stuffing her with hay [high fibre low sugars] because grass is full of sugars [low fibre high sugars], what do I know, well a bit more than some people on here, I have always had horses which look in top condition and have no colics [well not since I was a novice owner]
What I am saying is.................. three pounds of hay is not enough!
 
CBFan said:
I think it is quite a missconception that barefooters are better in winter because of the softer ground... as I have found out for myself this year!!

Having finally felt like we were turning a corner with this barefoot malarky - My 4 year old has never been shod but only came into work last year... building up slowly etc etc, on high fibre, low sugar, low starch, low protein diet, added mag ox, added brewers yeast and added biotin (all seperately and all over along period of time). ROCK hard feet in summer and actually coping quite well without shoes... the first major rain came in November, went out for an hour long hack, came back and all growth (we were a week before we were due for a trim) had been completely worn away. The wet conditions had softened his feet so much! My trimmer actually remarked that she found it more common for barefooters to need boots in the winter and ever since then we have used ours for hacking, still schooling barefoot but once again, he is due for a trim tomorrow and apat from needing his toe taking back, he really doesn't need anything much doing.
Click to expand...

I've just read a theory that the sole becomes more flexible on wet ground to adapt to the conditions (people think it's the mud ruining the feet) but if the horse isn't doing a huge amount of work and then goes out on the roads, the mud adapted hoof is no longer suitable and therefore not 100% comfortable any more.

When someone is taking a horse from shoes to BF - I am not considering that the horse is going to be suitable for ridden work at all.

My first thought is if they are going to be comfortable in the field. In winter, with low sugar levels in grass (avoiding frosts) and in the soft ground that packs itself into the sole like a home made pad - I would consider that to be a comfortable surface to start building sole with.

Thinking about getting the horse comfortable enough for ridden work comes later.

RE the OP - it sounds like there are lots of issues regarding your mare. If you were to take her BF I would advise you to initially engage the services of someone who specialises in BF horses. And preferably who can fit hoof wraps as they sound like the best option. If you mare is able to be shod - I can't see why she wouldn't cope with hoof boots?

Diet is all important to some horses and we've found time and time again that there are no short cuts.

Minerals are essential to maintain hoof health and also metabolism of grass.

If it's all too much - perhaps leaving the shoes on until you have more time to look into it all would be best:)
 
Alphamare said:
Because the cattle licks are balanced for the grazing and horse ones are not! Also I am appalled at the amount of molasses in horse licks. I tried Saracen and they finished it in under a week! The cattle licks have much less molasses and are much cheaper because the word horse is not infront of the product!
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I am not referring to the molassed lick treats, but the horse licks like Minsups.
 
Alphamare said:
Because the cattle licks are balanced for the grazing and horse ones are not! Also I am appalled at the amount of molasses in horse licks. I tried Saracen and they finished it in under a week! The cattle licks have much less molasses and are much cheaper because the word horse is not infront of the product!
Click to expand...

If cattle licks work for you and your horses then keep using them.
You don't have to buy or use horse products for horses in many cases especially when there are alternatives that are just as good and cheaper.
 
Miss L Toe said:
Sorry you did not get my point, which is that the horse needs more than 3 lbs of hay.... and if soaked for hours it will be unpalatable to some horses,

Personally, I think you should be stuffing her with hay [high fibre low sugars] because grass is full of sugars [low fibre high sugars], what do I know, well a bit more than some people on here, I have always had horses which look in top condition and have no colics [well not since I was a novice owner]
What I am saying is.................. three pounds of hay is not enough!
Click to expand...

Okay, one I am asking advice not criticizing other people's knowledge

Two soaking hay for hours is needed for my lami as when he was bad it wad soaked for 12 hours with vet say so and it never did him or the mares any harm last summer.

Three my other mare colics about three times a year due to numrous factors the most is getting cold in the rain, or stressed out when little s****s start throwing things in het feild because its fun not because of how I feed her. So the comment about colic is a little silly as none of the othes have it *touches wood*

Four she gets the 3lb in the summer, also vets are aware of this, and she spends most of the day sleeping. She is fine when i turn her back out at night not rushing to the grass at all.

Five she is only on 6lb of hay at night and grazing all day, if i put that up her weight goes up.
Six its a bit arrogant to say you know more than most as everyone has knowledge in different areas and I am glad your horses are healthy but what works for you might not work for someone else. That is the way of the world.

She is happy and healthy and has been in this routine for the past two years, I was just wondering about what i would need to do to go bf but it seems the way i look after my horse has annoyed you for which I am not going to say sorry.


Thank you for your advice.

Xxxx
 
Oberon said:
I've just read a theory that the sole becomes more flexible on wet ground to adapt to the conditions (people think it's the mud ruining the feet) but if the horse isn't doing a huge amount of work and then goes out on the roads, the mud adapted hoof is no longer suitable and therefore not 100% comfortable any more.

When someone is taking a horse from shoes to BF - I am not considering that the horse is going to be suitable for ridden work at all.

My first thought is if they are going to be comfortable in the field. In winter, with low sugar levels in grass (avoiding frosts) and in the soft ground that packs itself into the sole like a home made pad - I would consider that to be a comfortable surface to start building sole with.

Thinking about getting the horse comfortable enough for ridden work comes later.

RE the OP - it sounds like there are lots of issues regarding your mare. If you were to take her BF I would advise you to initially engage the services of someone who specialises in BF horses. And preferably who can fit hoof wraps as they sound like the best option. If you mare is able to be shod - I can't see why she wouldn't cope with hoof boots?

Diet is all important to some horses and we've found time and time again that there are no short cuts.

Minerals are essential to maintain hoof health and also metabolism of grass.

If it's all too much - perhaps leaving the shoes on until you have more time to look into it all would be best:)
Click to expand...


Thank for your reply, re the boots she panics when things are wrapped round her feet, I am slowly desensatizing her to this with different things but it will take time. She is fine, although paniced a bit when we first got het, being shod as i think she feels its not trapping her.

I'm not planning on taking the shoes off until I have looked into it a lot more as i want to have all the info before I decide. My sisters old pony was bf for years and we never changed his diet from just grass and hay so this is all new to me. I feel a little like a fish out of water :)

Xxxx
 
Oh bless her:(

You are not alone - everyone starts somewhere and we all felt the same at the beginning;)

Wraps might be the best option as she wouldn't know any different from shoeing.

She may be absolutely fine and be totally happy without dietary changes or any of the waffle we talk;)
 
Oberon said:
Oh bless her:(

You are not alone - everyone starts somewhere and we all felt the same at the beginning;)

Wraps might be the best option as she wouldn't know any different from shoeing.

She may be absolutely fine and be totally happy without dietary changes or any of the waffle we talk;)
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Thank you, I think for now I am going to leave her be until can desensatize her hoofs to wraps than things.....it got me thinking that I'm going to have to practace with poulticing and hot tubbing as *touches more wood* she hasn't had any need for it. :)

I'm sure its not complete waffle :) I always enjoy reading your posts.

Xxxx
 
slightlyconfused said:
Thank you, I think for now I am going to leave her be until can desensatize her hoofs to wraps than things.....it got me thinking that I'm going to have to practace with poulticing and hot tubbing as *touches more wood* she hasn't had any need for it. :)

I'm sure its not complete waffle :) I always enjoy reading your posts.

Xxxx
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It's waffle, woman.

Sometimes I read what I've written and cringe:p
 
I especially like them because they cost me less than £20 and last my herd 6 weeks. If anyone needs top up vit and mins I have stuff that I buy by the sack. Got to keep the costs reasonable! I was feeding brewers yeast, seaweed with rosehips and magnesium and it was costing me a fortune!
 
Alphamare said:
I especially like them because they cost me less than £20 and last my herd 6 weeks. If anyone needs top up vit and mins I have stuff that I buy by the sack. Got to keep the costs reasonable! I was feeding brewers yeast, seaweed with rosehips and magnesium and it was costing me a fortune!
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What make is it.......will it be allright with lami's?
Xxx
 
Would be great to hear what you buy by the sack Alphamare, as i too seem to buy too many supplements! And what are everyone's thoughts on feeding seaweed to help with hoof / sole quality and thickness? Thank you :)
 
Gracie said:
Would be great to hear what you buy by the sack Alphamare, as i too seem to buy too many supplements! And what are everyone's thoughts on feeding seaweed to help with hoof / sole quality and thickness? Thank you :)
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Only useful if your forage is low in iodine.
 
I buy a general multi vit/min by the 25kg sack for £66 (that's what I paid last time and it worked out at £14 PCM for the whole herd. The BY seaweed etc combination was costing me at least £40PCM!
I buy it offline from Pegasus horse feeds. I also by a sack of the magox
 
From my local farm/feed shop. It's I think 20 kilos and cost under a tenner.

As far as the cattle lick goes I have a laminitics on it and he has been absolutely fine. You need to go to your local feed/farm shop as they all seem to make their own, I certainly by the home brand one do I cannot suggest a brand name. Mine has a pamphlet that lists the different licks and their ingredients and you can choose the one that suits your needs best. I had a good chat with the woman and she was the on that told me its formulated for the grazing so only has what the grazing didn't in it. I have been very pleased with the result especially my mare who has been on field rest. I always thought I would have to put shoes on her when it came to ridden work. She was so ought on stones in handwalking which we were doing at lot of. She has had this lick and I take her down a very stony track ridden and not a single flinch!
 
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