barefoot question

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helencharlie

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Charlie went to the vets 2 weeks ago for a lamneness work up on his hindlegs and came out with deterioation to his navicular in his fronts, with the right having significant changes to the navicular bone. He has been managed barefoot for the past 4 years, keeping the angle of his feet correct. However, his heels have collapsed again. Is it possible to correct collapsed heels whilst barefoot, or should I follow the corrective shoeing method as advised by the vets for 3 months and see if the heels become corrected. Does anyone have any experience of this. I have sent an email to Rockley farm asking for their advice as well
 
When my mare had terribly under-run heels (coupled with long toes), my Farrier wanted to take the shoes off as he said that they would recover faster without shoes.
 
I was unable to correct my horse's collapsed heels in shoes, but they recovered quickly once barefoot.

Is your horse actually lame in front? The changes to the navic bone are often not the cause of lameness, and may be present in a sound horse. So they may not be a recent thing...
 
Oberon, yes his frogs are in contact with the ground and he is walking on his heels. His heels have collapsed whilst barefoot. He also does not seem to have grown much hoof either.

He goes appearing to be sound on his fronts to then being hopping lame.

When his heels collasped 4 years ago he went barefoot and this worked. His heels appear to have collapsed again just over a period of 6 weeks.

I have also noticed that his has dropped condition over the same period of time and he has become unhappy ridden, by putting his ears flat back, rather than having his ears pricked forward.
 
helencharlie said:
His heels appear to have collapsed again just over a period of 6 weeks.

I have also noticed that his has dropped condition over the same period of time and he has become unhappy ridden, by putting his ears flat back, rather than having his ears pricked forward.
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I would expect all this to be connected, and everything that you mention is symptomatic of Cushings and I would have the horse tested for it.

Six weeks ago the days were getting longer and even though it was still cool, it was over the temperature at which grass will grow. The timing would be spot on for Cushings related grass sensitvity in the feet and the effect also often shows in a poor coat and loss of condition. Feeling like he has a constant hangover would account for the attitude change.
 
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cptrayes said:
I would expect al this to be connected, and everything that you mention is symptomatic of Cushings and I would have the horse tested for it.

Six weeks ago the days were getting longer and even though it was still cool, it was over the temperature at which grass will grow. The timing would be spot on for Cushings related grass sensitvity in the feet and the effect also often shows in a poor coat and loss of condition. Feeling like he has a constant hangover would account for the attitude change.
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Yes I can second this. My very fit lean 3/4 tb has just been diagnosed with cushings. And 2 vets thought I was barking when I asked for the test. They said she was just needing shoes. Humble pie me thinks!

eta - shes only 14!
 
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helencharlie said:
with the right having significant changes to the navicular bone.
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It drives me mad that vets continue to make pronouncements like this. In vet speak "significant" should mean that the changes seen will account for the horse's lameness. In fact, there is now a mountain of evidence that deterioration of the navicular bone visible on xrays is only rarely responsible for lameness On MRI, the lameness is generally found to be caused by soft tissue injuries inside the foot.
 
My mare also has slightly under-run heels and she too has cushings. Her heels have started to improve now that she is back in work, though she's retired from ridden work so I have to do everything in-hand and it's hard work!!
 
All of the above...

and have a good close look at his heels - if there is any hint of central sulcus thrush or infection then nuke it - when you take him out of shoes with the aim of improving his navicular then you need to also make sure that his heels are comfortable enough to land on.
 
Thank you everyone for your replies. I hadnt thought of cushings relating to hooves. I will research this and then mention it to the vets. The problem is that he is sore on his heels as he is landing on these each time, which is why the vets want shoes on. At the moment I am reluctant to put shoes on as I feel this will hinder his progress, but I dont know how his heels could be raised without any shoes. The angle of his hooves and the lenght of his hooves are where they should be.

I sent an email to Nic at Rockley Farm and they have suggested that I should strengthen his palmar hoof. Nic also said that the lameness could be ligament or tendon damage. The vets have made no mention of any other damage. But this could explain why he is only lame for a couple of days and then becomes sound again. Again I am now entering new and unknown terriority. My farrier was due to speak to my vets and then get back to me again. I will see what they come up with, as the vets were against barefoot (wanted eggbars!) and 3mths of corrective shoeing. My farrier will also be emailed the xrays and I will discuss with him what route to take.

Im at a point now where I look at Charlie and I think there appears to be nothing wrong with you and you look sound when trotting or cantering across the field. Again the vets have advised that he is to be rested
 
Helen, just to stir into the mix coz it's so easy to forget stuff when you're in the middle of a nightmare... Charlie had tendon problems in the past if you remember and was diagnosed with desmitis a few years back. Also, he's lost masses of condition because of an extremely over-zealous EDT who does everything with power tools and he's reduced Charlie's teeth to smooth rounded pillars! No grinding edges at all. Vets have advised it will take a very long time for this to rectify itself and in the meantime poor Charlie can't properly break down his forage to get the nutrition he needs. You were going to talk to an equine nutritionist with the aim of getting some condition back on him to help his overall health and resilience. Talkaboutcushings.com (or possibly.co.uk) are giving away vouchers for free ACTH lab tests for Cushings. You only pay for the vet to take bloods. Worth checking. Vets also suggested Farriers Formula to strengthen hooves but of course that would take 12 months. Think vets said rested while you try the eggbar shoes route for 3 x shoeings because normally he works and competes hard and it would be impossible to say what and where the problem was otherwise. Hang in there chick ... I know zip about all this being a confirmed cob owner but it makes sense to me to give Charlie the best possible chance by resting him while he's so unhappy and intermittently hopping lame. I know you're miserable too but please don't give in and ride him yet xxxxxxxxxx
 
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