Barefoot Question

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H_A_C

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My boy has been barefoot all his life I have owned him for 18 months, never had a problem with hoof growth but he doesn't seem to be growing enough hoof. Farrier has been this morning and he could remove nothing and has said that its the time of year. He has a raised digital pulse in each hoof at present. Last year this time I was doing less road work.

He is living out, and has a high fibre diet of Alfalfa A, Saracen Enduro and Equijewel.
Is this normal I don't really want to shoe him unless I have too. Any ideas?
 
He may be self trimming with more roadwork ? My barefoot 2 always grow less hoof over winter so I wouldn't be too worried, unless he's not comfortable on the road now.

The digital pulses may be due to frost/snow/cold mornings affecting the grass.
 
He is self trimming unfortunately he is pigeon toed so needs that sorting occasionally. I will check the pulses later now i know where to find them.
 
I would change the diet.

He is out and, the grass is coming through, it will increase in sugar content.
You need to increase his fibre intake, can you section off a bit / keep him in dry/soaked hay for a few hours.

Feed minerals all year round, this will improve hoof and skin quality and ensure he is not deficient. Progressive Earth for a summer balancing mineral.

DO NOT FEED MOLASSSES.

Cut out Alfa A as lots of bfoot horses are sensitive, and I don't see any advantage to using it.
Equijewel is good stuff, but expensive for what you get.
A quick look at Enduro look s like another expensive bagged feed.
Go back to basics, a horse needs a fibre based diet.

His feet do not want sugars. Molasses/Moglo are NOT GOOD.

When bagged feeds first came out [1962] the choice was horse and pony nuts or racehorse cubes. So we all bought racehorse cubes!

OK that was a diversion.

Feed him minerals all year round, his hooves grow all year round. The daily requirement for minerals in horses it more critical for barefoot as the shoeing masks minor problems and also major problems.

A barefoot horse is a healthy horse, but you may need to manage the horse.

I like to feed 50gms micronised linseed in summers, 100gms in winter,

My pony diet is non molassed sbeet [quickbeet]. minerals, some salt, some chaff, a few oats, micronised linseed meal.
 
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Ok im nearly out of Alfalfa A, he doesn't like linseed goes on hunger strike with it in his feed. What can I feed as a good source of protein (ideally a chaff), will get some vits and minerals. He is very chilled and the Enduro mix works well for his energy requirements so I would rather not drop it.
 
I wouldn't try and sort pigeon toes on an older horse. I'd be inclined to be happy that he is self trimming. I wouldn't be happy with pulses though and I suspect that is certainly diet related.

Fwiw I feed speedibeet, dodson and horrell just grass chaff and rolled oats + equimins advanced complete pellets.
Mixes are not usually barefoot friendly really compared to feeding straights.

My chap isn't self trimming but if he was I would be happy that he is producing plenty of good quality hoof on his current diet.
 
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He has been on the mix since last September with no problem the thing that i have added is the alfalfa A which i will cut out. And add vits and minerals.

The farrier did not alter the shape of the foot but it needed tidying up. Had no problems with spring grass last year but this is the first time I have fed Alfalfa A.
 
that's because in enduro it is is covered in molasses.

Mine is fussy, hence the grass chaff.

Sorry you said he has a pigeon toe so that needs sorting sometimes and he needs growth to do that, not just a bit of a tidy up.
 
You are making lots of assumptions about my horse he is a 16.2 gelding, who needs to put on weight. I struggle to get him to have plenty of energy before the Enduro i struggled with him having enough energy. Its not a fitness issue.

He works pretty hard and uses lots of energy as we are muscle building.

I have tried rolled oats and he just went on hunger strike. I know what is ideal however all animals are individuals so I will try to work out what is right for him.

The pigeon toe just causes one side of his hoof to have a point which doesn't help the balance of the hoof, so it just needs a quick tidy up.
 
It did take my lad a fair amount of time to come off his sugar fix and eat tbh, even though he hadn't been on mixes before- even longer to work mineral powders in.
Presumably he has adlib hay/haylage while out?
If you take the alfalfa out I would consider adding some sugar beet and micronised linseed. Copra is also excellent for weight and as a high energy source but apparently we have a bit of a shortage currently.

You need to consider how he is using which energies.
Enduro is a mix of faster and slower released energies. You should be able to replicate it/a similar effect using straights and not including the molasses and lucerne pellets (alfalfa) that are in it.
Eg many find that micronised linseed is better than soya oil for the oil portion, sugar beet as a high fibre source of energy and then something added for quick release energy if required. Usually oats but these also come in different forms, I know a fair few who sprout them before feeding. I think it depends if you are happy with how the horse is in himself without worrying too much about the feet, or if you are concerned enough about the feet to try some alternatives, only you can see them so can know that.
Fwiw Frank did well on spillers instant energy, but the bruising could be seen on his white back feet some time later to match when I fed it.
 
the DE of the saracen is 13.6, speedibeet is 12 so not a million miles away, add some linseed and some faster release energy to that and job's a good un.
 
ester said:
Usually oats but these also come in different forms, I know a fair few who sprout them before feeding.
Click to expand...

What does sprouting the oats do to them? And is it like growing cress?! Mine I think goes a bit loopy on oats, but thats onyl what I've been told from when he was on oat straw. We struggle for energy too, he is excessively lazy! I'm currently feeding speedibeet and dengie hifi molasses free with linseed, prohoof, yea sacc and peppermint. I'm thinking of changing to fast fibre or grass nuts (although they tend to cause more choke than fast fibre) for the summer as he is not a fan of the chaff at all really.
 
http://shop.thunderbrook.co.uk/whole-organic-oats-for-sprouting-20kg-175-p.asp

there are a fair few on phoenix that feed them if you are a member and do a search SF. I wouldn't necessarily trust the loopiness comment if you haven't actually tried them.
Frank finds FF more palatable than SB but needs the energy level of the SB. I wasn't sure about adding the grass chaff but he doesn't get much by weight and means he eats up fine.
 
stencilface said:
What does sprouting the oats do to them? And is it like growing cress?! Mine I think goes a bit loopy on oats, but thats onyl what I've been told from when he was on oat straw. We struggle for energy too, he is excessively lazy! I'm currently feeding speedibeet and dengie hifi molasses free with linseed, prohoof, yea sacc and peppermint. I'm thinking of changing to fast fibre or grass nuts (although they tend to cause more choke than fast fibre) for the summer as he is not a fan of the chaff at all really.
Click to expand...

I don't take what others say 100% into account as there is so much variation: feed/work/rider/turnout , yes if you feed oats when horse is getting no work and no turnout, it will explode, possibly.
Oat straw is fairly rare these days, but in ye olden days a sheaf of oats [straw+grain] was the standard feed for a working plough horse. A lot of the grain can be seen in the poop, undigested.
I think that there is a possibility the soaked oats will ferment, so I don't see any advantage in sprouting them, only disadvantage. It may be that if you only have whole oats the sprouting will burst the husk so the horse can access the whole grain, but light rolling also does this.
 
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As others have said, hoof growth slows in the winter. If he was mine and everything else was fine, I would not be changing anything, but give him a couple of months and see if spring makes a difference.

All of mine get oats, whether they are doing plenty or just hanging out in the padock. No explosions to date - like anything you feed for what you are doing.

Lucern/alfalpha is a great source of protein - something else all of mine get every day. Again - not great slices of hay, but enough for their needs.

I don't know if you can get it in the UK, but Hemp Seed Cake is a great source of protein for horses. It's a complete protein and is also a good source of omega 3.
 
ester said:
ferment where bonkers?

there is a lot more changes in a sprouted oat than just a rolled one.
Click to expand...

Well, the main reason for rolling or bruising oats is to allow horses to get the full value of the nutrient, starch and fibre.
but the disadvantage of bruising or rolling oats is that the more you do it the shorter the shelf life. The traditional feeder would bruise oats twice a week or more.
When you add water to a product, it does not add anything to the product, it may alter the way it is presented to the gut, but the gut organisms adapt to the diet presented, so I don't see any magic is involved.

If kept too long in water any grain will ferment [we make whisky from sprouted barley], so soaked oats need to be fed quickly before they ferment.

Tell me why you think oats should be sprouted?
 
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NZJenny said:
As others have said, hoof growth slows in the winter. If he was mine and everything else was fine, I would not be changing anything, but give him a couple of months and see if spring makes a difference.

All of mine get oats, whether they are doing plenty or just hanging out in the padock. No explosions to date - like anything you feed for what you are doing.

Lucern/alfalpha is a great source of protein - something else all of mine get every day. Again - not great slices of hay, but enough for their needs.

I don't know if you can get it in the UK, but Hemp Seed Cake is a great source of protein for horses. It's a complete protein and is also a good source of omega 3.
Click to expand...


Is hemp seedcake a brown ribbon of meal with beans in it?
We used to get it from the mills [1950's], it was molassed, so as kids we ate some of it, not very palatable even to kids.
not available these days.
We also call "hemp" an illegal drug .... cannabis resin I am told.
Hemp is a grass which was used to make rope in the days before plastics.
 
Bonkers2 said:
Well, the main reason for rolling or bruising oats is to allow horses to get the full value of the nutrient, starch and fibre.
but the disadvantage of bruising or rolling oats is that the more you do it the shorter the shelf life. The traditional feeder would bruise oats twice a week or more.
When you add water to a product, it does not add anything to the product, it may alter the way it is presented to the gut, but the gut organisms adapt to the diet presented, so I don't see any magic is involved.

If kept too long in water any grain will ferment [we make whisky from sprouted barley], so soaked oats need to be fed quickly before they ferment.

Tell me why you think oats should be sprouted?
Click to expand...

Sprouting is not fermenting, the two are different. In the production of whisky barley is sprouted and then dried to stop the sprouting before fermenting it.

I understand that sprouting changes the enzymes in the oats and that change is beneficial to the horse's digestion. Having said that, I have never fed oats, sprouted or not.
 
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Bonkers2 said:
Is hemp seedcake a brown ribbon of meal with beans in it?
We used to get it from the mills [1950's], it was molassed, so as kids we ate some of it, not very palatable even to kids.
not available these days.
We also call "hemp" an illegal drug .... cannabis resin I am told.
Hemp is a grass which was used to make rope in the days before plastics.
Click to expand...

LOl - hemp is a cousin of cannabis and is not illegal, but people tend to go off on a bit of a tangent about it. You could smoke it if you wanted, but there wouldn't be a lot of point.

They grow hemp here for the oil, which is very high quality and a great supplement for humans and animals alike. It is really expensive, but I know several people who do feed it to their horses. I like the cake (which is what is left after the extraction process), becuase you get the added benefit of the protein, and high quality-complete protein is hard to find for horses. We can't get micornised linseed in NZ.

It comes as a pallet, no added molasses. I feed it as a supplement - all of mine get a cup a day. Grows great quality hooves and beautiful coats and I never have skin issues such as rain scald or mud fever when they are on it. If you ever get the opportunity to try it, I highly recomend.
 
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