Barefoot Rehab

Ambers Echo

Ambers Echo

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The full story is on the Puzzled By Ginny's Nappiness thread. The potted summary is my 6 yo pony has a 'complex multi limb lameness'. Scintigraphy and then nerve blocks and xrays have narrowed the source of the problem to coffin joints with compensatory pain in suspensory and back. No clear diagnosis. She has had cortico steroid injections, other injections whose name I forget, physio, heart bar shoes and box/small paddock rest. She has deteriorated if anything. Leahurts are reassessing in 3 weeks but in the meantime ycbm suggested the possibility of barefoot rehab and described a really positive outcome with Rockley Farm. (Thanks very much for input ycbm!) But knowing nothing about this I thought I'd ask for your stories- good and bad - of trying this. I will also read up but I am aware that a book on barefoot by people who live and breathe barefoot is likely to focus on the successes not the failures or mixes outcomes so I am after a broader range of views. I would particularly appreciate first or second hand accounts as opposed to ideological positions on barefoot.

Thanks in advance as feeling a bit lost and hopeless.
 
many years ago a friend had a horse who was intermitantly lame and this was before we knew much and he had his shoes off and was retired, after about a year he was sound and she started riding him gently and he stayed sound till old age when he then strained a tendon and was never right afterwards so was PTS. we didnt know what we were doing and were lucky but it took a long time. your case sounds much worse and if i was you i would discuss the option of no shoes with your vet rather than take advice from a forum who havent seen your horse...i had 2 horses who were managed exactly the same and were ridden together, one was a coloured lightweight cob and she was fine with no shoes, the other was a black cob cross and she couldnt manage without shoes so its very dependent on each individual horse. good luck
 
started taking the odd off step the summer of his 19th year (never any previous)
lame by the november
blocked to palmar hoof, then to coffin joint.
xrayed- only thing of note both coffin bones flat, heels generally run forwards (had been too short shod essentially)
injected with steroid and shod in home made egg bars.
After two shoeings hooves looked a lot better on the outside, but as soon as work increased to 'normal' hacking level was not right again.
Vet agreed hooves looked better, decided to take them off, vet cautious (has sent some to rockely but we didn't have a navicular diagnosis) farrier said he didn't know about barefoot rehab so get someone else in
Met trimmer (suggested by Nic at Rockley) decided trusted her enough to give it a go so shoes came off in the March/April and I had him injected at the same time as we knew it had helped.
Slow mo video revealed that one difference between the lame and sound hoof was that he was landing badly laterally on the lame one. My suspicion is that we might have seen some collateral ligament damage on MRI had we done so.
Changed diet
Did a slow rehab, started with 5 mins road walking (on long lines as he's rubbish to lead in that he ambles!) increasing 5 mins per week and turned out on a grass track at home for weight management.
by week 6 he was footy when road walking so started to wear easyboot gloves for that and once we were going further I could take them off for the long grassy stretch and put them back on for the road walk back, progressed to riding but all straight lines.
In the september when the ground was good we had our first canter
november we did our first dressage test back.

He hunted into his 23rd year then was scuppered by thickened hind annular ligaments so move to the flat and did light hacking. Until this year (now 25) he has been totally sound and happy on his feet and this year was likely a combination of hard ground and being retired.

Oh and he now lands a bit laterally on the 'sound' side, and has never worn his feet evenly due to his wonky knees.

I don't think it works for everything but I do think it is often their best chance of being as functional as they can.
 
I took advice from a forum and it saved my horses life.

Like anything, do your own research. There’s so much quality information out there and so many individuals willing to help. Call Rockley, call a podiatrist. Many barefooters started off thinking horses could not walk never mind go hunting without shoes and come out the other side looking none the worse for it :D

Good luck researching and may the outcome be good whatever you choose to do... choose with a good vet that isn’t stuck in the dark ages and either a EPAUK qualified podiatrist or a farrier that has many working barefoot and shod horses. No point using one that only knows how to work with shoes, blind leading the blind there.
 
Oh I just want to add (sorry!)

I had by that time read enough on here that I had said if I ever got a navicular dx I would barefoot. But because that wasnt the dx and my trusted vet seemed to suggest it would be easily solved I was swayed to doing the traditional route first.
Also obviously because of his age I figured if he didn't come right he was retiring and didn't need shoes on :p so might as well try and do it properly.

After a couple of years I found it easier to take over the hoof care myself (trimmer kept an eye for a while) the same farrier as before does now trim him and mostly 'gets it' we just disagree about flare ;). I was very pleased to have my trimmer through the transition if just for a little hand holding at times.

If I were to do it again now I think I might try making use of hoof armour too.
 
I am putting a link to a thread about a vet who supported barefoot rehab after heart bars failed to help, the OP has a fair few threads on her journey that would be worth looking through when you have time, her story has had it's ups and downs but the horse went sound as soon as the shoes came off, it was only the start but shows that some vets will be supportive but sadly they are still in the minority.

I haven't read all of it today but it is interesting.

https://forums-secure.horseandhound...elf-trimming-rockley-farm-supported-by-my-vet
 
My dressage horse went lame in September 2016. Lameness work up and nerve blocks took us to the right fore hoof and X-rays showed. Navicular deterioration. Heart bar shoe put on but no improvement, if anything the lameness got worse. Went to the RVC in October 2016 for an mri, diagnosed with navicular bursitis, collateral ligament damage and a torn DDFT. Prognosis was very poor with little chance of being sound enough to ride, was told only option was 6 months box rest, time and patience.
A friend suggested looking up Rockley Farm and I spent hours reading their blog. At our post mri review my own vet asked me what I thought we should do as he knew I’d have done some homework. I said I’d looked at a Rockley Farm and barefoot, he agreed straight away and was happy to give the referral needed to send my horse there. After speaking to Nic at Rockley and learning she had a 10 week waiting list I decided to take the shoes off and rehab him myself. Best thing I could have done, he was much sounder as soon as they came off and his whole body and temperament changed. Poor boy must have been so uncomfortable.
We did 5 months of in hand walking on different surfaces and then started ridden work. He’s got progressively sounder as time has gone on. He has also had compensation issues with hock djd and muscle tension across his hind quarters and SI. We’ve been having regular body work which has helped massively and I’ve been doing straightness training and using the classical dressage approach in our schooling which has been the next best thing after barefoot for him.
I now have a sound horse and am planning a return to competing 2 years after being told he was unlikely to be ridden again.
 
My experience is mixed.

It started back in 2013 with an 8 year old Novice event horse which went lame, MRI showed damage to DDFT in foot etc. Prognosis poor. Read everything I could (inc. Rockley blog, this forum, lots of other stuff), got hold of a trimmer and took his shoes off. He improved but never really was sound. MRI was done again the following year and showed just as much damage as first one, slight changes but basically bad. We really tried with him too, many hours of hacking in boots over many months. Diet was as good as possible. Long story short, I finally gave him last summer with pals in the field and said goodbye to him last September 4.5 years later.

However, the trimmer also started trimming some of the other horses too. Firstly 2 retired horses, then a retired but still in work event horse who had rubbish flat feet and was intermittently lame in the summer with hard ground. All of them have done really well, the latter mare has much better feet now than before and is going better too.

I also now have the best farrier in the area who is into biomechanics and is pro barefoot too.

Is your pony landing toe first? What are her feet like? Toe first is a killer.
 
Sorry about your event horse AnShanDan.
Thanks for input everyone.

I have bought the Feet First, Barefoot Performance and Rehab book and read it from cover to cover yesterday. I am cross it has taken me this many years of horse ownership to look into barefoot! Especially as I was a barefoot runner!! There is not one shred of evidence that supportive running shoes prevent inury and plenty that they cause it. The science of adaptation expressed by barefoot running experts is EXACTLY the same as that descibed on the book. 'Doh' moment.....

So I am going to move Amber and Jenny over to barefoot and need to feed them differently first. But the diet chapter has really confused me.

I get that most of the diet needs to be forage - that's fine, it already is.
I get that I can use a forage focused balancer for vits and mins,
I already have them on Pink Mash which is very low starch and sugar and very high fibre. So that is their base.

But what about chaff/chop? They recommend Alfalfa but then say don't use ANY bagged chaff. Well how else does Alfalfa come? I use Alfa A oil for Amber and Alfa A molasses free for the ponies. Are they both out?

I have always assumed I need to add a chop to the mash to increase the chewing time. So what can I use? Or is that a myth and I can just ditch the chaff altogether?

I am not touching Ginny's feet while she is being actively managed by Leahurst but I am going to discuss the longer term hope to lose the shoes with them on the 6th September at her review. Barefoot rehab may not be her answer but it is definitely something to consider.
 
Feet First is well out of date as regards feeding. Chaff is fine as long as it's not molassed. Seaweed is bad unless you have low iodine levels.

That's me on the cover, btw :)

Nic Barker's recent book on Amazon is worth a read, but ignore the quantities of magnesium she feeds, my experience suggests that's just not necessary. Mine all do fine on 15-20g



Don't expect Leahurst to support a barefoot rehab!
 
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add salt! It makes such a difference in my experience.. I feed 40gms a day to a 500kgs horse. I also feed pink mash with no chaff to a piggy cob and theres no issue with eating it. I think the texture makes it hard to bolt it. Just be aware that alfa-a can make some horses footy, so keep an eye on that.
 
Ambers Echo said:
Ok do all I need to do regarding feed is add a forage plus balancer and a salt lick. Simple enough!
Click to expand...

It could definitely be so and it should be with their excellent products but.... be prepared to become a closet chemist if things need "tweaking".... I've been keeping horses barefoot for almost 9 years now and I have had to change things a fair few times to suit each horse. Things have become so much easier since progressive earth and forage plus have started selling barefoot/bespoke mixes respectively.
 
I’m sorry about Ginny’s issue, what a shame - if you wanted to speak to someone with a foot in both camps, John Stewart is a retired vet who specialised in hooves now working as a barefoot trimmer. He is at wrong end of country for you (Dumfries) but I wonder if leahurst would send the scans etc to him for a consultation?
Here is his website
http://johnthebfzt.com/

He also has written an excellent textbook
 
Ambers Echo said:
Ok do all I need to do regarding feed is add a forage plus balancer and a salt lick. Simple enough!
Click to expand...

Add salt directly into the feed, that way you know for sure they've had a set amount then. I use the pure Himalayan pink salt (not for any particular reason, I just like it), but you could use a non iodised table salt too (assuming horse is getting a source of iodine elsewhere). Progressive Earth too do some good balancers aimed at barefoot, I used to use the Pro Balance+, but tend to use the Pro Mineral now a days :)
 
Nasicus said:
Add salt directly into the feed, that way you know for sure they've had a set amount then. I use the pure Himalayan pink salt (not for any particular reason, I just like it), but you could use a non iodised table salt too (assuming horse is getting a source of iodine elsewhere). Progressive Earth too do some good balancers aimed at barefoot, I used to use the Pro Balance+, but tend to use the Pro Mineral now a days :)
Click to expand...

Actually yes good point... salt licks donor provide anywhere near the salt requirements of a horse... I add a tbsp per horse per day normal salt
 
my experience of what sounds like multiple limb lameness/soreness is that the best thing you can do is take shoes off, turn away for 6-12 months, the longer the better, in a calm environment where the horse isn't forced to work beyond his soundness and can move and adjust.
I don't see the advantage in a 6 year old who may well just be jarred and sore and not coping with the work level in intensively medicating etc- different oa 13 year old you are trying to keep going another 2 or 3 seasons.
 
SusieT said:
my experience of what sounds like multiple limb lameness/soreness is that the best thing you can do is take shoes off, turn away for 6-12 months, the longer the better, in a calm environment where the horse isn't forced to work beyond his soundness and can move and adjust.
I don't see the advantage in a 6 year old who may well just be jarred and sore and not coping with the work level in intensively medicating etc- different oa 13 year old you are trying to keep going another 2 or 3 seasons.
Click to expand...

The problem with turning her away is that she looks sound. When she is anything but. She was absolutely dog lame on every limb but you could only see that when she was nerve blocked. So until she is at least paddock sound I am not prepared to turn away. She has been napping since Feb/March and vets who reviewed her said she was fine. But my belief now is that she was in pain even then and it was only the later further deterioration that led to poor performance (not tracking up, stiff back due to holding herself tight etc) which led to a referral and the discovery that she was in very considerable pain.
 
So she has deteriorated further since leaving Leahurst. I am hoping she is in fact improving but different limbs are improving at different rates so lameness in the fronts is more obvious now? The nerve blocks on 6th September will tell me more so I am pinning all my hopes on that.... Fingers crossed!

If it is bad news I will speak to other vets with the relevant expertise about barefoot for her and see if I can get a 2nd opinion. I've got all the xrays and imaging reports so I can pass them all over.
 
My TB has been fully barefoot for coming up to two years now and I can honestly say it's the best thing I have ever done for him. I had a host of remedial shoeing done for him after he factured both his hind pedal bones that helped him in the short term, but in hindsight made no long term difference and only served to make his foot shape and balance worse. He had repeated abcesses and bruises and at the end was intermittently lame in front and reluctant to move forward or come down the step from his stable/walk down a slope etc. I rather bravely rang a new farrier because I was fed up with the far fetched solutions that I was being offered. I tentatively suggested that we take his front shoes off (his backs were already off by this point) and got told that it was a great idea and were we going to do it now?! We did and I don't know if it was my imagination or not but I thought I saw his eye soften and his body relax as he stepped out of those shoes and we've never looked back. He was already on a barefoot friendly diet (Simple System, but then I find lots of fibre is the best way to feed Thoroughbreds anyway) but in the last two years he has only had one corn due to the very wet weather softening his soles and I can honestly say it's the best thing I have ever done for him. He's now out competing at affiliated dressage, we've just come back from our novice Area Festival and he already has some points at elementary which we're hoping to add to over the winter. Good luck and I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
 
Might be worth getting your vet out to check - being worse after steroid injections can be due to laminitis- I've had it happy to one who was injected (7 year old) and was a bit worse, then a bit worse and I noticed warm feet and pulses and suspected it and we confirmed it later - laminitis (low grade not a full blown attack) caused by the steroid injections.
 
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