Barefoot research

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SusieT

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Can any of those who say grass is bad, footy barefoot horses have LGL, talk about insulin resistance, metabolism problems etc. etc.
Can any of you sho my some information to back up your theories? I would love to see some, just to show that it's not just made up.
And if there's no research (that includes case studies btw-) is there not someone out there doing it to prove that barefoot is right, or all horses are lame or what not?
I have been reading some astounding stuff and there must be some basis for what you guy are saying-not just anecdotal evidence?
And please-no-go find it yourself responses. As that seems to be the response of those who have nothing to share with the rest of the horsey world. IF these things are the case, should all horses not be benefiting???
 
Tee hee, that can or worms has been discussed lots on here!:)

Ive asked that question many times. You will get a couple of very helpful, articulate replies but be prepared for lots of 'because it is', or you'll be ignored or as you say- the evidence is out there go find it responses! Lets just say there are a minority of knowledgeable, helpful people on the subject and a few others who have valid experiences and opinions but lots of 'fanatics' that spout things because thats what theyve been told and cant support their theories at all!

I got fed up with the above so asked the question recently-

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=367507&highlight=grass+footiness+barefoot

Do a search, theres been loads of barefoot threads lately. you'll soon work out who knows what they are talking about!
 
There are various barefoot websites - try google. "Barefoot" is an american term which has stuck as it means a horse working without shoes, rather than just being turned out in a field without shoes and not doing anything.

In the USA there were no laws to stop anyone just picking up a horse shoe and nailing it on a horse's foot (I don't know if this has changed now.) Hence the standard of shoeing was variable to say the least. And quite a lot of people stuck out in the middle of the desert just looked after their horses' feet themselves and found out that they didn't need shoes (horses aren't born with shoes on and the wild horses manage perfectly well).

However the three best known Pete Ramey, KC La Pierre and Jamie Jackson were properly trained farriers, who were disappointed with all the problems they encountered.
I heard a talk by KC La Pierre who was an engineer as well as a farrier and he was also training trotters on the track. He looked at a horse's foot and decided it was perfectly made by nature to be a shock absorber and didn't need any metal hammered on the end.
All these three well known experts have written books of their experiences and what they have found best to have worked.

There are also places in the UK, notably Rockley Farm, where horses are rehabilitated and a book written about UK conditions called Feet First. There are currently some trials being undertaken with Liverpool University to see how effective the treatments are. There are also individuals who achieved great things with various numbers of horses. A lot of these are "natural horsemanship" people who are rather looked at askance by "main stream" H & H people. (Which incidentally was EXACTLYmy reaction when I first came across barefoot horses - OK if you have lots of off road riding and don't do any competitions- wrong as it happens).

Should all horses not be benefitting? Yes of course they should, but farriers feel threatened, vets have been trained to say that horses need shoes, most horse owners just put shoes on a 4 year old when they start work even if they are not lame and their feet are just fine. It is going to take a huge shift in attitude, training and vested interests. But "barefoot" is becoming more acceptable as these horses go hunting, eventing, do endurance and become sound after having been written off as terminally lame.

My horse currently has shoes, but I am sure that the period he spent without shoes has prevented him becoming lame, and when the show season is over I have them removed again.
 
you might want to check the hunting forum for the inspiration for this thread :P
Another question-regarding what horses are and aren't designed to eat-any of you seen the mongolian plains in the summer??
 
How much of it is due to restricted exercise-and strictly controlled exercise and obsessive attention to detail? I wonder how many horses restricted and monitored as many barefoot horses are, would come lame regardless of barefoot or not?
 
The rockley farm is one I'm following closely :)
That threadyou pinted me to teddyt has some interesting stuff-thanks
 
Ive just read the thread in hunting :D. Ive asked for scientific research on the 'facts ;)' of barefoot loads of times. The closest ive got to working out an answer is the thread i posted the link to above.

Basically there is no research! Its opinion pieced together from various sources, with one study being published at some point from rockley farm.

TBH im still frustrated about the whole thing. I am actually very interested in the barefoot thing but the discussions often end in a row. cptrayes has actually been helpful to me but obviously from the hunting thread you 2 dont get on!

I just get very p'd off by the attitude that farriers are bad and you need to use a trimmer, the lack of regulation/training, etc for trimmers, the lack of substance to claims, the list goes on.

The arguments from the barefoot side often seem very black or white, never any grey. Which to me just isnt right.

Ive also done some research (admitedly limited) on rockley farm and tbh i have been told some negative things about their rehab. they also appear to be the only yard doing such a thing, which is limiting in itself for decent conclusions.

I am interesed in this subject because i have shod and unshod horses. i want whats best for all of them. if that meant removing shoes then i would do it but im yet to be convinced and like you op, i want decent evidence!
 
Susiet my horse is one of the case studies at Rockley if you want to know more detail about it.

He's an ex racing tb and one of those horses who could never go barefoot so I was told.

I'm definitely not NH but fairly traditional but thought it was worth a shot as we were struggling to keep him field sound in shoes, I'm actually visiting this weekend and just back from a ride that included galloping across exmoor and stomping down some stony tracks and roads.
 
I have a TB gelding that used to race, he suffers from LGL, I know this because when I give he grass he becomes initially footy and then lame (although it never goes that far nowadays as I know better) if I keep him off grass and feed him alternative forage then he becomes sound - simple as! He's quite a wimp so I know pretty quickly when he's uncomfortable, when off the grass he has no trouble stomping over stony tracks.

I think the problem at the moment is that whilst its growing in popularity its still a relatively small movement and only as it grows will there come more research and evidence. Robert Bowker has some pretty good research thats worth reading about.
 
There is limited research at the moment, but if you search on google scholar plenty of scientific journal papers go up; with all kinds of conclusions being drawn. Not 100% if you can read the papers (I am on a uni system so we are subscribed) but you should at least be able to read abstracts
 
SusieT said:
you might want to check the hunting forum for the inspiration for this thread :P
Another question-regarding what horses are and aren't designed to eat-any of you seen the mongolian plains in the summer??
Click to expand...

Horses (Equus Caballus) didn't evolve originally in Mongolia... they evolved in what is now the Great Basin in the US. They died out after the last Ice Age - it is thought because the climate warmed up making the vegetation in the Great Basin too lush for horses to survive (yep that old sugar in grasses argument) - and were only reintroduced by man in the last few hundred years, specifically the Spanish. If you want to read all about the area where horses evolved and the vegetation they evolved to eat please get hold of this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Natural-Hor...=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275509368&sr=8-4

Jaime spent four years living with the wild mustangs - doing research if you like! - and it was from this time spent with the wild herds that he (a farrier) realised what a horses' hoof should look like and what it could do. It changed his life and kicked off the whole modern barefoot movement. He started out believing that horses needed to be shod to work - his subsequent twenty years of experience has shown him quite the opposite is true.

If you actually look at the summer grasses in either the Great Basin or Mongolia you will find high plain, arid living grass species, of multiple types, mixed with a huge variety of herbs. Nothing in common with the ryegrass species you find in UK fields.
 
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