Barefoot Transition & Fitness, lameness...and any other tips!!

[Becks01]

Hello there,

About 10 days ago I had my horses shoes pulled for our barefoot adventure! Before I had him, he was an endurance horse, but looking at his record he has a history of either doing amazing and getting grade 1's and 2's, or getting vetted out. Previous owner had scans and xrays done last year and nothing was found by vet, other than the conclusion that "he's just not built for endurance"...

Anyway, over the 6 months I've had him I'm learning about him, discovering he is unbelievably sugar / grass sensitive (more than I've experienced before, even with my other cushings pony!!) and gets footy easily. I have also noticed he's gotton increasingly more trippy, more toe landing, slower (he used to be like a steam train leaving everyone else miles behind!) and shorter. Since pulling his shoes it appears he's had some thrush lurking underneath, and some white line separation has been going on, so I think the transition is going to be a slow one. We have old Mac's on fronts, but our outtings so far have been extremely slow, and just in walk... Once we get on the soft woodland tracks he's more like the horse I first knew. I genuinely feel that barefoot is going to be the route to soundness for him, it's just going to take time. He's been on a 'barefoot diet' really since I got him in April, and there's a visible line of healthy hoof growth travelling down each hoof which is encouraging...

How do you maintain fitness during the transition, or do I just need to accept that I won't and see it as a rehab period?

Any tips at all for transition would be gratefully received!! (sorry for essay!!)

 

[paddy555]

sounds like the exercise will do him good so for me it would be get rid of the thrush first job and then boot probably all 4 feet. People often only boot the fronts but if the hinds are sore they become slow and unhappy. You mention endurance and sugar sensitive so I am guessing arab?
Anyway I would use boots with a better breakover and less cumbersome than old macs. Depending on his feet that would be epics if you wanted to put a pad in and the feet could change shape a bit or gloves or renegades if the feet are good enough at this stage. if he was an endurance horse he will be used to moving so those sorts of boots may be easier for him. I would also try padding the boots and see if he prefers pads or not. Hopefully that would get him comfortable enough to get some mileage into him.

I would also double check that he was slow and unhappy ATM due to sore feet. This is a bad time for cushings and lethargy is one of the symptoms.
He's not being over trimmed is he? Many do better if they can be left and just edges kept rolled to prevent chipping.

 

[Becks01]

Hello paddy555 - thank you for your reply. Yep he is an Arab, and mostly Bahraini, so despite being born in England, genetically he seems to be 'straight off the desert' in terms of his dietary requirements. I must say it's a steep learning curve for me...I've always had Arabs, but he needs managing in quite a different way!

After your message I have had a look at the different boots, as I have felt that the Old Mac's seem very cumbersome and blocky - I love the look of the epic and gloves. Apart from white line separation his feet overall look lovely in terms of shape. Just very very sensitive out on our hacks. He actually seemed quite comfortable in the menege over the weekend so I am encouraged about that.

He hasn't actually been trimmed since we pulled the shoes, our farrier is due monday but I don't think they need trimming as such (it would be 5 weeks since he was last trimmed and shod) - like you say, I think a bit of a rasp and roll will be fine.

I am considering getting him tested for Cushings...I was thinking I was being super paranoid because I already have another with it, but it might give me piece of mind (or not! :-/ ). He is a little whooly already...

 

[tallyho!]

Agree with paddy... looks like time will be the greatest healer. I don't know if you have good tarmac where you are?

If so, once you've sorted the thrush and the white line tightens up, get walking on the tarmac. Brilliant for self-trimming, strengthening and general blood pumping without stones and rough stuff getting in the way. Agree with just toe-rolling but make sure foot is really well balanced... IME only some farriers can do this effectively... watch out for unevenness in the sole as this could indicate that the pedal bone is not quite level.

 

[EQUIDAE]

Brilliant and even more brilliant that you have a barefoot farrier trimmers are great for trims but I don't feel they have enough training or knowledge to deal with a transition or remedial work. A barefoot farrier gives the best of both worlds

 

[Becks01]

Brilliant and even more brilliant that you have a barefoot farrier trimmers are great for trims but I don't feel they have enough training or knowledge to deal with a transition or remedial work. A barefoot farrier gives the best of both worlds

Yes we're very lucky He actually popped over about an hour ago to have a quick look at his feet and is very happy with them. No structural reasons for the footiness, so just need to address the sensitivity (I am hoping dietary). He also suggested boots for the backs so I might order the easy boots fitting pack you can hire and get him measured up.... It's a bit like with children isn't it, when they're not right, we can't feel right either!

 

[supsup]

I think it would help if you could figure out why your horse has deteriorated in shoes since you bought him. Has his diet changed a lot since? Is he exercised less? Is the new farrier worse than the last? A Cushings test certainly sounds like a good idea just to rule it out.
It seems to me there is something going on that is unrelated to the barefoot transition that has led to the issues over summer. I expect that unless you resolve whatever that is, you'll struggle to get him really happy barefoot. Unless of course you think it was the shoeing per se that changed and caused the problems, but that seems unlikely if footiness is a symptom.
My gelding (without any particular issues) went straight from shoes into boots (on all four) and never missed a step. I kept on exercising just as before. I have since had im shod periodically, then back to bare/booted and there is no noticeable difference in his comfort levels either way. IME, if there isn't an underlying problem you should be able to achieve the same level of comfort in well-fitting boots as in shoes (or even better, if the horse has sensitive soles). So, I second the tips above on trying pads and adding hind boots to see if he'll be more himself in those. But if you keep struggling, I suspect the solution will lie somewhere other than in the booting/shoeing situation.

Lastly, I wouldn't rush to replace the Old Macs quite yet. They may be clumpy, but unless you think they are causing him real discomfort, I might keep them until you've tried some pads and hind boots. There's always time to buy something more sleek once you are sure boots are working for you.

 

[tallyho!]

Brilliant and even more brilliant that you have a barefoot farrier trimmers are great for trims but I don't feel they have enough training or knowledge to deal with a transition or remedial work. A barefoot farrier gives the best of both worlds

Interesting. What qualifications does a "barefoot farrier" have (except for blacksmithing) above a UKAEP or UKNHCP trimmer?

 

[paddy555]

Hello paddy555 - thank you for your reply. Yep he is an Arab, and mostly Bahraini, so despite being born in England, genetically he seems to be 'straight off the desert' in terms of his dietary requirements. I must say it's a steep learning curve for me...I've always had Arabs, but he needs managing in quite a different way



..

and therein may lie the problem especially if you only pulled the shoes 10 days ago. The grass has been growing massively recently. It may be the case that come mid November or so things get better grasswise and he gets better but then come next March or so it will get difficult again. Some cope with no problem, some struggle with the grass and your lad sounds as if he is going to be worse than most unless you can get a good track/off grass type arrangement. However a Bahraini does sound rather lovely so I hope you can reach a compromise with him over his management.

 

[EQUIDAE]

Interesting. What qualifications does a "barefoot farrier" have (except for blacksmithing) above a UKAEP or UKNHCP trimmer?

Almost 4 years more training for one...

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Talking to my Farrier who is pro BF, the four years of farrier training isn't time well spent, if the aim is having a BF performance horse.

 

[tallyho!]

Almost 4 years more training for one...

Oh. So what do they get training on?

 

[tallyho!]

Really sorry to take this off on a tangent. Just trying to understand.

So I've had a good look at the Mysercough College & Warwick on DipWCF, DipHE & BSc so in total you could study for 8 years.

So first you do 12 weeks certificate in coursework, then the 4 year diploma, then you can continue to do a 2yr p/t Dip HE, then you could continue to the BSc 2yr course which is very in-depth.

I would be happy with a farrier that had done the BSc as that does take into account the biomechanics, hoof structure and you have to submit a research piece.

That is a lot.

But why do they only do all the biomechanics, vascular, diagnostics stuff only at the BSc level? Why in't that taught at the beginning? You really do 6 years of forgework and business and managing pathophysiology with the aid of shoes.

The EPAUK & UKNHCP do all the stuff in the 2yr BSc, in 2 yrs plus 2 yrs of apprenticeship. They still have to submit a research piece and pass a equine nutrition exam. So 2 years of just hoofcare plus a module on forgework. Some are trained by BSc farriers it looks like & farriers from US.

I guess it boils down to experience, personal preference, beliefs and what's on the books - how are the horses they are trimming performing. That would be my decider I think.

Whats good in this country is that you can choose from the best. So whoever is nearest and has a record you want you can ask. I don't think it should be farrier vs trimmer. It should take all those other factors into account.

 

[tallyho!]

Wow - I just searched for Farriers with BSc and there only 4 with that qualification within 50 miles of me! One of them was my previous farrier!!!!

 

[FFAQ]

Brilliant and even more brilliant that you have a barefoot farrier trimmers are great for trims but I don't feel they have enough training or knowledge to deal with a transition or remedial work. A barefoot farrier gives the best of both worlds

Thankfully, there are companies such as Equine Podiatry Training Limited who are providing 2 year diplomas in Equine Podiatry, so if you have an EPA trimmer, you will have someone with a very good level of training. I can't speak for the other trimming groups out there, but I'm sure that's true of many of them too. However, anyone who is thinking of having a trimmer should of course enquire as to their training and CPD training.

 

[FFAQ]

Really sorry to take this off on a tangent. Just trying to understand.

So I've had a good look at the Mysercough College & Warwick on DipWCF, DipHE & BSc so in total you could study for 8 years.

So first you do 12 weeks certificate in coursework, then the 4 year diploma, then you can continue to do a 2yr p/t Dip HE, then you could continue to the BSc 2yr course which is very in-depth.

I would be happy with a farrier that had done the BSc as that does take into account the biomechanics, hoof structure and you have to submit a research piece.

That is a lot.

But why do they only do all the biomechanics, vascular, diagnostics stuff only at the BSc level? Why in't that taught at the beginning? You really do 6 years of forgework and business and managing pathophysiology with the aid of shoes.

The EPAUK & UKNHCP do all the stuff in the 2yr BSc, in 2 yrs plus 2 yrs of apprenticeship. They still have to submit a research piece and pass a equine nutrition exam. So 2 years of just hoofcare plus a module on forgework. Some are trained by BSc farriers it looks like & farriers from US.

I guess it boils down to experience, personal preference, beliefs and what's on the books - how are the horses they are trimming performing. That would be my decider I think.

Whats good in this country is that you can choose from the best. So whoever is nearest and has a record you want you can ask. I don't think it should be farrier vs trimmer. It should take all those other factors into account.

Oops, sorry just seen this!! Absolutely agree with you Tally Ho! Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that UKNHCP are no longer running their course and are instead sending prospective students to Equine Podiatry Training Ltd. At least, that's what a UKNHCP trimmer told me! Not that it matters, the important thing is that farriers and barefoot trimmers are well trained and continue with CPD training!

 

[ycbm]

Brilliant and even more brilliant that you have a barefoot farrier trimmers are great for trims but I don't feel they have enough training or knowledge to deal with a transition or remedial work. A barefoot farrier gives the best of both worlds

A barefoot farrier certainly didn't learn about transition or barefoot remedial work from the syllabus of his professional qualification, because it isn't in there. So there is no reason why s/he would know any more about those things than a trained trimmer. And at least you can guarantee that a trimmer does know about those things, which you certainly can't guarantee for a farrier.

A good person to trim your horse is someone with experience and a good reputation, farrier or not.

 

[Becks01]

I think it would help if you could figure out why your horse has deteriorated in shoes since you bought him. Has his diet changed a lot since? Is he exercised less? Is the new farrier worse than the last? A Cushings test certainly sounds like a good idea just to rule it out.
It seems to me there is something going on that is unrelated to the barefoot transition that has led to the issues over summer. I expect that unless you resolve whatever that is, you'll struggle to get him really happy barefoot. Unless of course you think it was the shoeing per se that changed and caused the problems, but that seems unlikely if footiness is a symptom.
My gelding (without any particular issues) went straight from shoes into boots (on all four) and never missed a step. I kept on exercising just as before. I have since had im shod periodically, then back to bare/booted and there is no noticeable difference in his comfort levels either way. IME, if there isn't an underlying problem you should be able to achieve the same level of comfort in well-fitting boots as in shoes (or even better, if the horse has sensitive soles). So, I second the tips above on trying pads and adding hind boots to see if he'll be more himself in those. But if you keep struggling, I suspect the solution will lie somewhere other than in the booting/shoeing situation.

Lastly, I wouldn't rush to replace the Old Macs quite yet. They may be clumpy, but unless you think they are causing him real discomfort, I might keep them until you've tried some pads and hind boots. There's always time to buy something more sleek once you are sure boots are working for you.

Thanks supsup...Yes I think there is definitely more going on...going to speak to the Vet today (out for Jabs and possible Bloods for Cushing's Test) but I thinking Sugar sensitivity seems the culprit...he's on a super strict diet now and his digital pulses have come down in all four feet, and he is much happier in himself...going to see when I ride later if he seems more comfortable as a result... I'm going to try pads in the boots tomorrow (my worry was that they'd change the fit of the boots too much?) but you're right about not rushing out and spending money...I'm really hoping he's going to be more comfortable so that I could eventually phase boots out, but if not, so be it!

 

[Becks01]

and therein may lie the problem especially if you only pulled the shoes 10 days ago. The grass has been growing massively recently. It may be the case that come mid November or so things get better grasswise and he gets better but then come next March or so it will get difficult again. Some cope with no problem, some struggle with the grass and your lad sounds as if he is going to be worse than most unless you can get a good track/off grass type arrangement. However a Bahraini does sound rather lovely so I hope you can reach a compromise with him over his management.

The grass is mad here...and we have an old hay field which has been very well cared for, and fertilised until I took over it...(the fertilised bit anyway, I like to think it's still well cared for ). Now I have been analsying everything really closely, he did go footy in early summer - not long after I was given a nice lush field to put him in to rest mine... with my last horse that wouldn't have been an issue, so I didn't think anything of it.... I got him out of there as soon as I realised he was footy, but everyone thought I was a bit strange as he "wasn't the type" to suffer...I sort of got talked round (though I refused to put him back in the lush grass - I think my instinct knew, even if my knowledge of such things wasn't what it is now), and we put back shoes on him, which seems to sort it (now I know, just covering up the issue!). When the paddock was dry and parched and he had hay to make it up he was grand...as soon as the weather changed he started getting uncomfortable. I am really rather hoping this is the culprit, as it's something that I can actively do something about... He is rather lovely, and just an easy horse to manage otherwise in terms of temperament etc...