Barefoot

[Benjamin]

I am just wondering here, have seen people mention that they use a barefoot trimmer to trim the horses feet.

Can anyone tell me what the difference is between them and a farrier doing a trim?

Thankies in advance!

 

[AmyMay]

A farrier has been trained by an accredited organisation, serve and apprentiship, and then have to pass a rigorous set of exams to qualify.

A barefoot trimmer can get the instructsions from a book.

 

[Benjamin]

[ QUOTE ]
A farrier has been trained by an accredited organisation, serve and apprentiship, and then have to pass a rigorous set of exams to qualify.

A barefoot trimmer can get the instructsions from a book.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks AmyMay

So, why do people use them??

 

[Halfstep]

[ QUOTE ]
So, why do people use them??

[/ QUOTE ]

God only knows!

I wouldn't!

We are lucky in the country - we have a good training system and accreditation for farriers. I have a feeling the whole "barefoot trimmer" thing has come over the Atlantic from the US where, I seem to remember, farriers are not registered in the way ours are....

 

[Benjamin]

Would be interested to hear from the people who do use them......?

 

[brightmount]

If you are genuinely interested, then this website is a good place to start:

http://www.appliedequinepodiatry.org.uk/

A qualified DAEP is not some sandal-wearing rasp-happy fruitcake. There is a continual programme of training and qualifications and you can't let the training lapse or the accreditation does too. The trim was developed by KC LaPierre, and the merit of it can be judged by the horses that have had it. Mine being one - lamed by bad shoeing two years ago, with one contracted foot, and crippled by navicular syndrome. Now sound and flourishing. The improvement was immediate, and has continued for the 2 years she has been barefoot.

There are many examples of horses that have been helped in this way. I don't doubt there are also unaccredited cowboy trimmers, but it's up to the owner to do their homework. There are bad farriers too.

This horse is three-quarter thoroughbred. Here are her hooves after her last trim:

 

[fredthoroughbred]

My horses feet look gorgeous thanks to my barefoot trimmer. His feet used to be mis-shapen and cracked but look fab now. My 'EP' is very thorough and very well qualified so i'm all for barefoot trimmers, trained and qualified ones only though

 

[Benjamin]

Can I ask why you chose a 'barefoot trimmer' over having a farrier trim?

 

[mrdarcy]

My horses aren't barefoot but I have an excellent farrier.

I think it's important to remember that there are an awful lot of very bad farriers out there. They may have had years of apprenticeship and training and be accredited by the Farriers Registry but that training could have happened 20 years or more ago. There's no requirement for farriers to update their training, go on refresher courses or even be reassessed every few years to make sure their standards are still acceptable. I know of one farrier round me who's been in the business thirty years and the state of horses feet after he's finished with them is scary. I wouldn't let him near my horses. Yet he's fully registered and legal.

There are some great and extremely knowledgeable barefoot trimmers out there - if you find a good one then take full advantage.

 

[AmyMay]

Tamster - your mare's feet look lovely. Just how I would expect them to look. - which is reassuring.

I would still always go with a fully trained farrier though. I really can't see what your trimmer has done any different to what my farrier would do (which is actually reassuring

)

 

[fredthoroughbred]

The main reason is that after seeing a friends TBs feet a few months after he went barefoot I was astonished. When he was being hot shod every six weeks his feet were flat, flaky and cracked. Our local 'EP' had a good few months with him and his feet looked miles better.
I decided that Fred needed some similar treatment because I tried supplements, lotions and potions etc and his feet only got so much better. After three and a half months his feet look very healthy indeed and I am really pleased with the results.
Freds 'EP' is very thorough. She takes digital photos of different angles of the hoof every 6/8 weeks and marks him at the same time. His first mark overall out of 10 was 1.6

hahaha but he is at 4 now and I think they look fabulous. God knows what 8/9/10 would look like

After saying all of this, if your horse is very foot sore then you have to faff around with boots, glue on shoes etc and that can become a drag but I think that is quite rare because Fred is very sensitive (bless him) and he gets on great barefoot

 

[Rocky01]

I know some farriers aren't great (I've met one of them) and there are some farriers that jsut are too quick and so don't do as good a job as they should. My farrier is young (just finished his training) and is great but if he wasn't I would look at getting a barefoot trimmer if I had reccomendations.

 

[Eceni]

[ QUOTE ]
A farrier has been trained by an accredited organisation, serve and apprentiship, and then have to pass a rigorous set of exams to qualify.

A barefoot trimmer can get the instructsions from a book.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is so, so completely not true

It would be equally unfair to say: A farrier has a lifelong interest in selling you shoes and has only ever been taught to trim a foot in order to slap a metal strait-jacket on it, while a barefoot trimmer has spent many hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds studying the anatomy of the foot, the physiology of the foot and of movement and the techniques required to trim for barefoot work, not simply standing around in a field. They will know remedial trimming, and how to assess the entire horse so they will be able to advise on work, keep, field maintenance and general health.

This is also a generalisation - I had a fantastic farrier who trimmed for barefoot when I was in Newmarket. Over in the west, I have a very good barefoot trimmer.

There are some bad trimmers, but there are also bad farriers. It takes common sense to find good ones of either, and if you treat them well, they'll come back.

E

 

[Eceni]

[ QUOTE ]
Tamster - your mare's feet look lovely. Just how I would expect them to look. - which is reassuring.

I would still always go with a fully trained farrier though. I really can't see what your trimmer has done any different to what my farrier would do (which is actually reassuring

)

[/ QUOTE ]

SOME farriers understand barefoot mechanics - many don't. The action of a shod foot and an unshod foot are different - in the same way you run/walk differently if you're wearing trainers or thin soles slippers or platforms - they all affect your way of going. I have met farriers who simply flattened the foot without taking into account the foot-pastern axis or the height of the heels or the degrees (if any) of medial/lateral rotation. They don't look at the horse in motion, they don't know how foot-arc changes in motion. A trimmer (a good trimmer) understands what it is for a horse to move and compete without shoes on. It's a different concept.

I use a trimmer where I have a good one. I'd have to be very convinced a farrier was on side before I'd use one. The good ones have taken themselves on barefoot courses - or at least read the literature. It's NOT the same as simply taking off the shoes and turning the horse out to grass

E

 

[MagicMelon]

Farriers trim hooves in preperation for a shoe. Barefoot trimmers shape the hoof and aim to have the correct most-natural angles etc. I have 2 horses who are shod (1 is farrier-trimmed when his shoes are off during the winter), 1 who is farrier-trimmed and 2 ponies who are barefoot trimmed. My farrier is very much old-fashioned and frowns on any new ideas! The barefoot trimmer is far more modern. TBH I have to say that the 2 ponies hooves who for the past 15ish years had been trimmed by my farrier and are now barefoot trimmed - their feet have never looked so good!! But if Im honest, I probably wouldnt consider barefoot trimming unless the horses had problems with their feet which my ponies did originally. For example, Id never make one of my horses go barefoot because he's perfectly sound shod.

Ignore the comments slagging it off, they know nothing about the method! Unfortunately some people are so traditional that anything new freaks them out!! Im just waiting for new shoeing methods - nailing metal shoes onto hooves really should be improved!

 

[Hollycat]

I have used both farriers and barefoot trimmers, and as others have mentioned, you get good and bad of each. Perhaps a bit of a generalisation, but in my experience most farriers - even those interested in barefoot - do not show as much attention to detail as a qualified barefoot trimmer. Most farriers I have used on my barefoot horse will not touch the frog or the bars but will just generally balance the foot. I currently use a very good farrier who is interested in learning more about barefoot trimming and whereas he is not as good as the (unreliable) barefoot trimmer that covers my area, the trim he does is well balanced though not as athestically pleasing as the barefoot trimmers.

It is also worth remembering that its not just the trim that is important - but also how the foot is conditioned to remedy any deficiencies in structure and other considerations such as nutrition, environment etc.

 

[houdini]

I use a fantastic barefoot trimmer for my six. She looks at the whole body to see how feet affect muscles/posture etc. She also watches them move at every trim (my farrier never did!!). My trimmer has so much knowledge of the foot and anatomy of the horse, she has had consultations with my vet about how to correct my horses stance and he thinks highly of her trimming.
Trimming for barefoot is different to preparing foot for a shoe. The environment and feed/work regime is also inmportant to successful barefoot performance. I would never go back to shoes again....

 

[laura_1983]

my fully trained farrier agreed to try barefoot with my pony rather than me paying a barefoot trimmer to travel, tinkers feet were perfect until we discovered he's a lazy walker and his feet wore wrongly, he now has shoes back on but my farrier does comment everytime he's out that in textbook terms he should be able to go barefoot no probs as his feet are perfect for it! plan is that once im riding him again he's going to stop being a lazy pony and shoes will come off eventually!

i do know that if i had a proper barefoot trimmer they would watch the way tinker moves and the way his feet wear then trim to suit, that way he could be barefoot full time!

if i had a barefoot trimmer in my area i would most def have the lazy boy without shoes, i researched it for nearly 2months and i would rather have him that way!

 

[fredthoroughbred]

Hi Littletinker,

My barefoot trimmer, Bonny Mealand knows of a very good barefoot trimmer in the Edinburgh area so i'm sure they would travel to Dunderland

I shall give her a ring and pm it to you sometime

 

[clipclop]

I have used a barefoot trimmer, only because my existing Farrier seemed to not trim them correctly. She did a nice job but she had to travel a long way and she didn't come regularly enough. I now use a new Farrier and he does a great job.

A lot cheaper too!

He comes and trims every 3 - 4 weeks to keep the feet neat. Saves me having to do any maintenance in between.

 

[riverdancer49]

Bev from Virginia USA. Yes, we are having the same difference of opinion in the USA as to shod or barefoot. We do have a program that Farriers go through to be accredited. My farrier has been through this program and also every so often goes to clinics to learn what is new. But as you said there are good and bad farriers. I am a shoe person. I live in the Tidewater area of Virginia, Flat, no rocks except on man made gravel roads. I love to ride about 3 hours from home in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia (Very rocky). I have had horses since I was 10 years old. I have always kept shoes on my horses year round, when I ride around home I have to ride on gravel roads. My horses feet are in excellent condition, A 11 year old walking horse, a 7 year old Racking horse and a 23 year old retired quarter horse. The retired Quarter horse wore shoes all of her life till I retired her at 19 years old, She was sound when retired. At 55 and riding 20 miles in the mountains the smooth gaited horses were the ones I preferred to ride so my quarter mare was turned out to enjoy her retirement early. I still don't understand the difference in a bare foot trim and a regular trim. An unshod horses hoof if ridden on hard surfaces is going to wear to its normal shape no matter how it is trimmed. I agree that it is unfair to a horse with sensitive feet to make him walk on hard surfaces and rocks to toughen up his or her unshod hooves. Unshod horses in the wild pick the paths they follow to avoid rough areas. When we ride our horses we do not give them a choice they have to walk on areas unnatural to them. therefore I feel that my horses need shoes to make them comfotable. All these people that believe in the bare foot horse should take their shoes off and walk on gravel roads and rocky areas and toughen up their feet, ill fitting shoes can do damage to a human foot also. My husband laughs that my horses get a new set of $100.00 shoes every 6 weeks and he gets a 60.00 pair of new shoes once a year. Just my two cents worth.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride"

 

[brightmount]

I wouldn't ride my barefoot horse with no protection on the sort of terrain you have Bev from Virginia, but with Old Macs all round she could cope with any amount of rocks and stones, better even than a shod horse dare I say it.

 

[Benjamin]

QR -
Just out of interest, how much do you pay for a trim and how often does it need to be done?

Thanks

Oh, thank you all for your input.

 

[brightmount]

A trim is £45 and is done 6-weekly, same as shoes.

In the initial stages the EP did an interim trim which was a quick tidy up 3 weeks after each trim, because you get more chipping before the white line tightens up and the hoof wall grows stronger. I don't think he even charged for this if I remember, and he lives about 40 miles away, so how's that for value!

 

[houdini]

£30 every 4-5 weeks and do rasp them myself in between.

 

[riverdancer49]

A trim is $30.00. I have seen the Old Macs in use. One of the problems with me using boots on my horses is the maintanance. I trail ride almost every three day weekend Spring and Fall. We ride through creeks and mud, between 15 and 20 miles. The boots have to be taken off and cleaned each time they are used, at least three times each trip. It also makes me feel sorry for the horses I have seen wearing them when the boots get wet and full of mud, it make me think of a person walking around in a a wet muddy shoe. I also personaly feel a horses frog should be exsposed to the terrain he is traveling over for better balance and health to the frog. I'm fine with people that want to maintain their horses hooves with the bare foot trim. I have been a shoe person too long to change my way of thinking. I have always kept shoes on my horses and make sure I use a knowledable farrier. I respect those that feel the bare foot way is best. I have never had a problem with my shod horses, If it isn't broke don't fix it is the way I look at it. Thanks for replying. Here in the USA this is a very controversial topic among horse people also. Every method of caring for a horses hooves has it's pros and cons. As long as their hooves are cared for correctly and regulary that is all that really matters. Really enjoy reading all the info from everyone. Thanks for the reply. Check me out at: http://community.webshots.com/user/bev19491

 

[riverdancer49]

$30.00 for a trim here in Virginia, USA, should be done every 6 weeks. Checked out your website with pixs, really enjoyed. Benjamin is a beautiful boy.
You can find my pixs at http://community.webshots.com/user/bev19491

 

[Dressagebabe]

Hi,
Barefoot isn't just about trimming! its about field conditions and diet also. My farrier whom is a very highly recommended remedial Farrier that is flown around the country to work on certain famous horses now works with a barefoot trimmer, he wanted to get his head around how it all worked and he admits he went there hoping to pull it apart but now realises it is superb if the horse owner is as committed as the barefoot trimmer! He often says a barefoot horse is trimmed differently to an unshod horse (one that has had shoes on in the past 2 yrs) The other website that will give you an insight is www.barefoothorses.co.uk

 

[brightmount]

This is true, and there is becoming more of a crossover now, with many farriers going on barefoot courses so they can offer both options.

I accept all you say Bev, and it's "horses for courses", whatever works best for your horse in your particular set of conditions. I have one barefoot horse and one shod one, both doing very different things. (Not that I wouldn't like the shod one to be barefoot...

)

 

[riverdancer49]

I agree, horses the bare foot way is more natural, but
we agree that particular set of conditions sometimes determine what is best for the horse. My retired quarter mares feet are doing just fine since her shoes were pulled and she is trimed every sis weeks. The correct diet makes a difference too. As we all know a healthy horse and hooves comes from the inside out.