BARF and companies to bulk buy from?

[Blue-bear]

Hi,
I was feeding my dogs on a barf diet and was somehow talked back into feeding a complete mixer diet....and whaa laaa my lab now has skin issues that we didnt have before.
So my question is im now going to try and buy in bulk but what companies do this, how much is normaly minimum delivery and is it easy to choose what to buy??

Thanks

 

[Stinkbomb]

You really need to do some research first to ensure you feed a varied diet. It takes some getting used to but well worth the time and effort.

I order from DAF and can recommend them!
I feed a mix of beef, lamb, chicken, fish, eggs, offal and hearts. I have been using it since January so still only introducing new protein sources every now and again. Minimum order is £50 but you will need to invest in a chest freezer or such, they will not fit in an ordinary freezer!

You will prob have to get used to the vomit and "poop" problems that come along with introducing a raw diet, but they do really settle after a short while.

Here is a good web page to answer some questions and they have a forum too..

Dogster

It really is worth the effort and my dog looks great ( see post above! )

 

[MarleyandDarcy]

I think Landywoods is quite good (they have a website) and Albion ( don't think they have a website (or they might but you can't order through it) but their phone number will come up on Google. These tend to be the 2 I have seen recommended

If you have a good butcher near to you they are always a good bet - and usually cheaper! I get everything from my butcher - about £50 a month to feed 6

 

[KarynK]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi,
whaa laaa my lab now has skin issues that we didnt have before.


[/ QUOTE ]

Now I wonder what on earth could have caused that!!!

Wise choice to go back! Do you have a butcher near you, they really are the best source of human grade bones. I can feed the bulk of the diet for my 2 for just over £5 a month. If you have a freezer it's a doddle.

The majority of my diet is chicken carcasses and chicken wings which are the correct ratio of bone (80%) to meat (20%), they also have lamb ribs, the very cheap cut that us humans no longer want and a load of lamb bones, so if you do have someone local chat them up quick before somone else does.

Supermarket Chicken wings are very good value as well and with them it's just a matter of chucking them in the freezer, I would think a pack of economy wings would do 2 days for the lab.

Some BARF suppliers supply too much meat in their diets and it is not always human grade, really its the bone you need which is expensive to post.

Provided you feed a variety of varieties of meaty bones with some muscle meat, liquidised veg and a bit of offal over a 2 week period you will not go far wrong and that skin irritation should be gone quite quickly.


here is a link to a site that links to suppliers and give a bit of advice.
http://www.ukrmb.co.uk/showcontent.toy?contentnid=7379

Just goes to show though with pet food doesn't it!

 

[maggiesmum]

We feed Duck which is a complete wet feed, we get it delivered by TPMS, it makes a really good halfway between barf & complete dried food and our dogs look fantastic!

http://www.duck-uk.co.uk/Varieties.htm

 

[Stinkbomb]

[ QUOTE ]
The majority of my diet is chicken carcasses and chicken wings which are the correct ratio of bone (80%) to meat (20%),

[/ QUOTE ]


Sorry but this is WAY to much bone. The ratio is 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% offal. If you constantly feed a dog 80% of his diet as bone you are feeding too much calcium.

 

[KarynK]

I am sorry but I this is most definately not way too much bone, I am a purist species appropriate diet feeder. I most definitely do not feed the diet that you do, to me that is not the BARF (BONES and Raw Food) diet started by people becoming aware of Ian Billinsghurst's writings in the UK over 10 years ago.

I have watched the original raw feeding be warped to a largely meat diet, mostly by vets who were a little scared of being sued by recommending a high bone content. Modern diets using the BARF name incorporate far too much meat and veg and some even dairy and grains including rice. Whilst this to me is far better than most commercial cooked diets it is not balanced correctly and includes ingredients a wild dog would not encounter.

80:20 is the ratio for me and a high number of raw feeders. A high bone content was recommended by Billingshurst and this is the ratio that has been fed by many working dog breeders and competitors over the last 10 years or so, my sister being one of the very first sleddog racers and breeders to incorporate it very successfully, she has three generations of raw fed racing dogs, all her puppies have been raised on this ratio. You have probably encountered her writings in your research. She has also given feeding advice to many other dog owners and breeders and vets who now advocate the raw diet.

The correct type of Bone is extrememly important in providing a superior source of essential nutrients in the diets of both cats and dogs, those nutrients are not available in muscle meat. They encourage the correct PH level in the gut of a carnivore and are the most important component for cleaning teeth. It is the natural high content of bone that led to the formation of that gland in the first place i.e. to help expel hard faecal matter (calcuim), this in itself gives you a clue to the diet of dogs before we started using tinned and dried foods. A dog should not have big or sloppy stools but small hard white ones (excess clacium being expelled), that does not happen if you do not feed enough bone, bone fur etc are a dogs roughage and they need much more than 10%!

This has been warped by many in this country to say that high bone content causes constipation. To quote Kymythy Schultze A.H.I, author of The Ultimate Diet emphasises the importance of bone "excluding raw meaty bones from your pets diet would be a terrible mistake" Calcium is an important part of the diet and 10% in my opinion is not enough to supply enough dietary calcium or roughage, a dog as a scavenger and a killer of weak individuals has evolved to process a huge calcium content.

As a Species Appropriate feeder I consider very carefully what the bone content is in the natural prey of my dogs, were it to hunt for itself. Feeding only 10% bone is not reflective of the true prey ratio and certainly will not clear out an anal gland.

In the wild a dog would not be eating fat muscle dense prey, which is why I feed carcases or wings as human chickens are artificially muscle and fat dense. Wild carnivores will catch kill and eat weak individuals of any given species, and you would rarely see a fat wild rabbit or bird, they can't afford to be fat or they will not survive being chased.

Each to their own but in ten years of feeding this diet I have never had a dietary problem and my dogs are not suffering from excess calcium, my sisters puppies raised on 80:20 and those of other species appropriate feeders of hard working dogs have dogs with strong bones and teeth that are sound and fit to work even into their teens!

 

[Stinkbomb]

So your saying you feed 80% as raw MEATY bones as oppose to 80% pure bone??

Extract taken from the brit BARF forum.

[ QUOTE ]
Chicken wings are a popular item for starting dogs off eating Raw Meaty Bones,
though chicken wings are NOT particularly meaty! Pork and lamb ribs and necks
are other popular items fed to supply edible bone, to older, larger, or more
experienced raw fed dogs. These along with other items are often available
from butcher's shops at relatively low cost or sometimes even free!

Many people have read or heard of Ian Billinghurst's book, 'Give Your Dog a
Bone', in which he states one should feed up to 80% of the diet as RMBs. As
mentioned above, chicken wings and many of the other 'RMB' type items such as
ribs are not that meaty, and this can mean that far too much bone is being fed
unnecessarily, and which increases the risks of a blockage forming in the
intestines.

Although many chicken wings are not the 50:50 ratio of bone to meat that he
states (generally they're around 30-35% bone) these amounts of bone in the
meat should always be borne in mind. Around a minimum of 5% of bone in the
overall diet is absolutely fine, but try and avoid regularly going above 15%,
though the odd event where a large amount of bone is consumed at one sitting
MAY be absolutely fine as long as the dog can cope with it. It is MUCH better
not to have to find out that it can't!



[/ QUOTE ]


I feed on average 10% pure bone which works out around 50% RMB's in his diet.

Each to their own

 

[KarynK]

Now I am confused, I have never known anyone who talks about raw bone content why would you need to? To me that is overly complicating what is quite a simple concept and is extremely misleading to those starting out raw feeding, bone should be fed with meat on it and according to Billingshurst raw meaty bones should form the vast bulk of the diet and those meaty bones should be 80% bone and 20% meat so why make it so complicated.

That quote to me perfectly illustrates my point that the concept has become warped that diet is just not BARF, BARF is Billingshurst’s concept and name they are clearly not following that concept therefore it is not a BARF diet its Raw Meat And A Bit Of Bone. What is written there is actually in contradiction of what Billingshurst advocated.

I follow a very simple concept of looking at a wild canine’s ideal meal, wild rabbit. Wild rabbit is lean, the rabbits they catch will be the old or very young, the bone will be about 80%, to the meat, with the added roughage of fur and nails and of course a small amount of part digested plant matter in the stomach and intestines, a small amount of offal, the ideal balanced ration. The same can be said of wild birds, mice lemmings or any other complete meal nature provides.

So I will not feed a whole domesticated anything as us humans have warped it to have far to much muscle meat, ergo carcasses and wings, meaty lamb bones, the odd pigs trotter, game birds and wild rabbit and meaty deer bones are so easy to feed and provide all the raw meaty bones in the correct proportions. Add to that small amounts of offal liquidised veg, raw eggs and some muscle meat and you have a diet you cannot go far wrong with balanced over 2-3 weeks.

The diet I feed is proven over an extended period when fed to very hard working dogs, which have been very successful in competition work in this country for well over 10 years and more so in North America. Like I say each to their own but species appropriate is very easy to feed, very easy to get and a very forgiving diet for those embarking on their first attempt. Everyone can visualise how much meat and bone are in a chicken wing and apply that principle to other food sources, it does not have to be scientific it is Simples!

You have obviously done your research and decided what you will feed and I have done mine coupled with a practical knowledge over 10 years of feeding raw meaty bones and having seen this diet be so very successful in working dogs to me there is no competition.

 

[Stinkbomb]

ALL my bones fed have raw meat on them i just dont follow the idea of feeding an 80% bone diet. I have found that anymore than a 50% bone content makes my dog vomit bone and extreemly constipated

I dont necessarily agree with Billinghurst idea of a raw diet either, i dont feed veg, i dont see it necessary tbh.

I do however appear to feed a similar diet to you as in that i feed a wide variety of meaty bones,muscle meat and offal. I just dont appear to feed as much bone as you

A raw diet is individual to a specific dogs needs, thats the joys of a raw diet in that your not putting the same old dried cr*p in front of it everyday. Whether or not we feed the same raw diet shouldnt really be an issue, we are obviously passionate about the way we feed our dogs and the importnat thing is that we BOTH choose the most natural way and thats RAW!!