Barging and Dragging... help?

BlizzardBudd

BlizzardBudd

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my new loan horse barges out of the stable and when leading just drags me towards food. i have only had him 2 weeks but i am not getting alot of advice from people that i have asked :(
when i am entering the stable he will push against the door when i am going to slide the bolt across. this is also the same for when i am trying to leave aswell.
when i am leading him back to the field he just drags me to grass at the side of the path.
he is just being rude and although he is only 14.2hh he is a large set horse and he know how to push his weight around :mad::mad:
 
Before you open the stable door, ask him to move backwards. If he doesn't then poke him in the chest and ask again. Do not open the door until he has moved back. When you get inside praise him and if need be ask him for another step back. Again lots of praise. If he starts to pull when you are opening the door a sharp no and a tug off the leadrope should stop him and give him something to think about (do release the pressure though as that will encourage him to pull) ask him to backup. Keep repeating until he gets the idea not to barge out. Lots of praise when he responds nicely.

When leading is he in a headcollar? perhaps try a pressure halter to start with. If he pulls back him up and ask him to stand. Praise then walk on, keep repeating the steps and he will soon learn that pulling is not getting him anywhere. Then switch back to the headcollar and follow the same steps.

I have been doing this with a 2 YO, mind you he is only 13 hh so bit easier to keep hold off :p he now backs up without me even asking too when I am entering his stable (even if I have food) and he leads lovely now in a headcollar without pulling.
 
Make him back up every time you enter the box, right to the back of his box, use a sweeping brush to push him away if necessary, do the same thing when leaving, very bad manners.

With leading you need to do some groundwork with him. With a horse that has learnt to pull for grass. I will usually just pop rope over the nose, then just before their mouth hits the grass, pull them up sharply. It only takes a few times for them to learn.
 
Speak to the owner first.

I would get either a bar or one of those webbing grill things put on his door so that when you open his door, he still can't get out.

Something like a pressure or dually halter should help - you will need to learn how to use one of these but they can be very useful. In the meantime, maybe lead him in his bridle so that you have more control, keep gloves on and be firm - oncea horse gets a certain way away from you there is no stopping it, so keep him close.
 
I would echo what others have said - perhaps a pressure halter and some ground work. Make him back up when you want to enter his stable. A horse I used to share could be very bargey but I stood my ground and remained constant in my approach and he massively improved. Word of warning with the bar/chains across stable - mine walked straight through it last summer as though it wasn't even there so make sure you keep a close eye on him if you do start using one!
 
LaurenBay said:
Before you open the stable door, ask him to move backwards. If he doesn't then poke him in the chest and ask again. Do not open the door until he has moved back. When you get inside praise him and if need be ask him for another step back. Again lots of praise. If he starts to pull when you are opening the door a sharp no and a tug off the leadrope should stop him and give him something to think about (do release the pressure though as that will encourage him to pull) ask him to backup. Keep repeating until he gets the idea not to barge out. Lots of praise when he responds nicely.

When leading is he in a headcollar? perhaps try a pressure halter to start with. If he pulls back him up and ask him to stand. Praise then walk on, keep repeating the steps and he will soon learn that pulling is not getting him anywhere. Then switch back to the headcollar and follow the same steps.

I have been doing this with a 2 YO, mind you he is only 13 hh so bit easier to keep hold off :p he now backs up without me even asking too when I am entering his stable (even if I have food) and he leads lovely now in a headcollar without pulling.
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I entirely agree with Laurenbay, I took possession a thick set, bolshy cob who like yours was very rude on the ground due to his previous owner being very weak with him and letting him get away with murder!

I did all of the above and in no time at all he has developed perfect manners the only thing he can't resist doing when out on a hack is pinch some cow parsly or paisley (not sure how it's spelt) but we are working on that one! lol
 
Elbie said:
Can you put a breast bar/rope across the stable door. That way if he barges, he's not getting anywhere!
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i think he would just go straight through it.. he doesnt care whether i am stood in the way or whether there is anything in the way!!

amymay said:
Have you spoken to his owner???
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i have, she says that he wont go very far and thats just what he does

justjoules said:
I would echo what others have said - perhaps a pressure halter and some ground work. Make him back up when you want to enter his stable. A horse I used to share could be very bargey but I stood my ground and remained constant in my approach and he massively improved. Word of warning with the bar/chains across stable - mine walked straight through it last summer as though it wasn't even there so make sure you keep a close eye on him if you do start using one!
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ok, yeah i feel that he would just go straight through it!!

Brandy said:
Speak to the owner first.

I would get either a bar or one of those webbing grill things put on his door so that when you open his door, he still can't get out.

Something like a pressure or dually halter should help - you will need to learn how to use one of these but they can be very useful. In the meantime, maybe lead him in his bridle so that you have more control, keep gloves on and be firm - oncea horse gets a certain way away from you there is no stopping it, so keep him close.
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i will lead him in my better gloves today.. the others have fallen apart from him pulling :rolleyes:

LouS said:
Make him back up every time you enter the box, right to the back of his box, use a sweeping brush to push him away if necessary, do the same thing when leaving, very bad manners.

With leading you need to do some groundwork with him. With a horse that has learnt to pull for grass. I will usually just pop rope over the nose, then just before their mouth hits the grass, pull them up sharply. It only takes a few times for them to learn.
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i have done this.. he just doesnt care

LaurenBay said:
Before you open the stable door, ask him to move backwards. If he doesn't then poke him in the chest and ask again. Do not open the door until he has moved back. When you get inside praise him and if need be ask him for another step back. Again lots of praise. If he starts to pull when you are opening the door a sharp no and a tug off the leadrope should stop him and give him something to think about (do release the pressure though as that will encourage him to pull) ask him to backup. Keep repeating until he gets the idea not to barge out. Lots of praise when he responds nicely.

When leading is he in a headcollar? perhaps try a pressure halter to start with. If he pulls back him up and ask him to stand. Praise then walk on, keep repeating the steps and he will soon learn that pulling is not getting him anywhere. Then switch back to the headcollar and follow the same steps.

I have been doing this with a 2 YO, mind you he is only 13 hh so bit easier to keep hold off :p he now backs up without me even asking too when I am entering his stable (even if I have food) and he leads lovely now in a headcollar without pulling.
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thank you :D i will try this
 
I put a rope across the nose of a strong or bargey horse - something I saw recommended by Richard Maxwell - it does work. If really naughty put a stallion chain across the nose.

My Highland will try and barge out of his box if he does not want to be inside!! He is very strong.

I have a high tie ring inside the box. I slide his rope through that and back out holding the rope. It gives me leverage the more he pulls the higher his head is held till the door is bolted. Then I take his head collar off over the door.

Once a horse knows they can't get away with this behaviour they usually behave in my experience - but it is no fun for the handler.
 
If you feel he would go straight through a grill, then he really does need sorting out! My friend had a large chunky horse and ended up with a piece of scaffold bar across the door.

On the other hand, my small native pony every now and then takes it into her head to barge out - I have to admit a sharp smack across the chest usually makes her think again. Happens about once a year.
 
A simple solution to his dragging problem would be to put the leadrope around his nose for a bit of extra control. Make sure the headcollar fits snugly, attach the leadrope to the headcollar normally then take it over the nose and back through the headcollar this then gives you extra control. Ive never found this not to work on strong horses/ponies when leading. Another tip when leading is to keep a hold of the cheek piece of the headcollar and keep your elbow at his neck, then if he locks his neck and starts dragging you to the grass dig your elbow into his neck and bend his head round towards you, this gives you back control of his head and all he can do is go round in circles and not drag you away. Neither of these solutions hurt the horse and they eventually learn that attempting to drag you doesnt work.

As for the barging, make him go away from the door before you even touch the bolt, if the nice ways dont work then dont be afraid to wave your hands at the him to make him go back. Once he has moved back from the door, enter and give him lots of praise and reward making sure to stroke his face so that he doesnt become headshy.

Know what you going through as ive had many horses with this sort of behaviour and ive always found that these techniques work. :)
 
Rollin said:
I put a rope across the nose of a strong or bargey horse - something I saw recommended by Richard Maxwell - it does work. If really naughty put a stallion chain across the nose.

My Highland will try and barge out of his box if he does not want to be inside!! He is very strong.

I have a high tie ring inside the box. I slide his rope through that and back out holding the rope. It gives me leverage the more he pulls the higher his head is held till the door is bolted. Then I take his head collar off over the door.

Once a horse knows they can't get away with this behaviour they usually behave in my experience - but it is no fun for the handler.
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i might try the high tie ring thing, as he already has one in his stable

Archina said:
A simple solution to his dragging problem would be to put the leadrope around his nose for a bit of extra control. Make sure the headcollar fits snugly, attach the leadrope to the headcollar normally then take it over the nose and back through the headcollar this then gives you extra control. Ive never found this not to work on strong horses/ponies when leading. Another tip when leading is to keep a hold of the cheek piece of the headcollar and keep your elbow at his neck, then if he locks his neck and starts dragging you to the grass dig your elbow into his neck and bend his head round towards you, this gives you back control of his head and all he can do is go round in circles and not drag you away. Neither of these solutions hurt the horse and they eventually learn that attempting to drag you doesnt work.

As for the barging, make him go away from the door before you even touch the bolt, if the nice ways dont work then dont be afraid to wave your hands at the him to make him go back. Once he has moved back from the door, enter and give him lots of praise and reward making sure to stroke his face so that he doesnt become headshy.

Know what you going through as ive had many horses with this sort of behaviour and ive always found that these techniques work. :)
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thank you :D
 
My mare is an absolute sod for dragging to eat the grass. She is just so greedy. I have tried all the advice, I bought a dually headcollar, tried rope around her nose, carried a whip, asked her to back up and stand etc etc etc. She will not learn so I always lead her in a bridle now cos I cant be bothered with the fight and almost having my arms pulled off. When she gets her head down to the grass I cant pull it back up!
 
A Richard Maxwell halter will sort the biggest bargy b*99ers I've had to deal with. You only have to use it once or twice, proper job!;)
 
I agree with the advice about using the Richard Maxwell halters. I have used one for twelve years since my horse used to be out of control when being led. I now help others with bargy rude horses.
Can I add a couple of suggestions from another angle - and this is just a thought and in no way is it a judgement of the care you give your horse.
Are you feeding enough hay or haylage or is he eating his haynet too fast and then has long periods in between feeds? Perhaps you are trying to slim your horse down and having to limit feed? If so try making it harder for him to eat the forage by using very small holed nets, even one or two inside the another. That way he will be kept occupied for longer and will be more content as a result and not be so desperate to get out. Studies have shown that chewing brings about a feeling of contentment for horses as it is natural behaviour. I see this problem from time to time when horses have finished their net within an hour after the owner has left for the night and so the horse will be without food for the next 12 or 14 hours until the morning. Their gut is designed to have small amounts of food going through almost constantly and they develop ulcers if left without forage for long periods.
Also when horses are ravenously hungry all the time despite getting loads of feed, it can be a symptom of being Insulin Resistant, bit similar to diabetes in humans. Have a blood test done in case that's the reason why he is barging out to get to the grass and then you can get some advice from the vet on how to manage it.
Hope this may help.
 
For pulling to the grass I use a chain over the nose. A simple dog lead will do. Cheaper than a dually, which mine just laughs at.

Soon stopped my boy. If he goes to now I just say no and he doesn't bother. And on the rare occasion he does get his head down, all I have to do is lay the chain over his nose and he stops. Very effective.

Obviously you should do some groundwork with him also. Make sure he knows your the boss and you make the decisions. Not him.
 
When I moved my bargy rude hulking warmblood X to a livery yard owned by my Western trainer he took one look said no way am I having a rude horse that drags people around here, and proceeded to insist that any pulling was met with a "hey" and a back up until his eye was again just in front of my shoulder (so you can see the horses expression, worried, calm, evil etc) we spent a lot of hours backing up!

Eventually he got it walk calmly next to the person leading you and you don't have to back up all the time (he is a WBX it took a while )

After we mastered this the next step was the “automatic whoa” i.e. I say whoa you stop with your arse tucked under you as soon as I think whoa! (again a lot of hours of backing up) but he got it

Next step was walk on your own four feet you are a big boy and I do not need to hold onto your head you can do that, you can guess what is coming right as soon as he leans on you whoa and back up, as well as me having a session with YO's quarter horse which is like leading a feather no weight in your rope at all so I could feel what the ideal felt like (as at the time I was just happy not to be dragged anymore!)

Head down was taught from the very start and covers everything from head collar and bridle on, and leading (for those oh so wonderful giraffe moments) and also when you want to do something like open a gate much easier if horse is stood still relaxed with head down . We started off having to put pressure on his poll for him to bring his head done (release as soon as he moves down in any way) and have now worked up to just putting my hand over his poll without touching him and he brings his head down. For bridling and head collar as soon as I pick up either he puts his head down until I tell him he can put his head up.

I am proud to say I now have a hulking warmblood x who I can lead with one hand on the end of a lead rope and my thumb and forefinger of my near hand halfway down the rope he is now nearly as light to lead as the QH's. He also stops as soon as I say whoa on the spot rock still and will not move till told he can.

It has though taken a lot of time and patience and I used to moan like hell at the amount of time spent training this and I am sure a lot of people will say "god how anal" but I am very thankful all it takes is a whoa for him to stand totally still put his head down and wait for the next instruction rather than the old days of drag and tanking off.

Same method in the stable, ask him to back away from the door, if you don;t get it then hand onto chest and slight push asking for back-up, took a while but we can now leave the stable door open and and he will stand there, any movement forwards and a simple "hey" will cause him to step back.

Now he is a polite lad I still do lots of ground work with him but tend to put up grids and obstacles to keep it interesting.

You just need to be consistent, he will occasionally even now especially when being led back towards the paddock make an attempt to get in front of me, I let him make the mistake and correct with a "whoa" then back him up 3 or four paces, set off again give it 10 paces then ask whoa, if he stops dead, praise then carry on, if not then back up and try again.
 
Basically you need to up your game as your horse has no respect for you, so there are lots of NH groundwork exercises you can do to improve this.

I only use a simple rope head collar and a 12' lead rope with mine, as I want them to respect my space. I never use, fancy headcollars or chains or bridles to train on the ground. Lots of backing up cures barging and pulling.

Simple, quick and effective with lasting results.
 
He is obviously food orientated so this may work but it depends on how you feel about using treats. When we first got our haffy she was just like this, after coping with the barging and managing to hold her (just) across the yard she would always take off immediately I opened the gate and go flying across the field with rope trailing, I had a couple of slipped discs and couldn't use my body to try and stop her! I started using the big badminton herbal treats, they have a strong and very attractive scent that the horses love. When you open the stable door, let him know there is a treat in your hand and use that hand to encourage him to move back so you can get in, when you are in safely then give him the treat. Same when you come out, open the door with him knowing you have a treat in your hand, don't allow him to walk through for a few seconds, treat then tell him to walk on. I basically did lots of stopping and starting with treats used to bribe her to agree with me, when we got to the field I made sure she was ready for the treat and I treated after closing the gate and after removing the headcollar. It seriously only took a few days of this and she was a different horse, so calm and willing to wait and walk with me, I gradually reduced the treats over the following few days and then stopped them and replaced them with a scratch. In my defence, I use treats all the time when training, we have 14 and not one them is pushy or rude nor do any of them bite. I think using food to train is ok as long as the horse is food orientated and as long as you know when to stop so it doesn't become a habit.
 
Just to add to your list of things to try, my 17'2 boy sometimes tries to tank in. As soon as he get ahead of me I let him but make him do a semi-circle infront of me and continue walking, he then has to turn to be lead on he other side, repeat every time he pushes ahead, he will end up swapping sides a lot but you keep walking.

The barging was a big prob with my old boy Teddy, previous owner used to just open his door and he would tank off to hi field. You MUST make sure he is back from the door before you try to open it. Then try some of the other techniques on here.

I also echo the NH suggestion, you need to teach him to respect you on the ground, my big lad will back up for my YO 7yo girl.
 
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