Barging horse

[noodle_]

This morning i was pushed out of the way by my horse (walking)! taking herself off to the field....

She is pushy...and recently got worse - she has little respect for my space when i go in and out of her stable,(gets right in my face)

I did resort to taking a whip in a few times to remind her to move back (tapped the floor not the horse)! I have no issues giving her a smack, but im not sure this is correct in these circumstances?

Whats the best way of teaching this horse some manners?

Wouldnt have minded but shes on part livery and also barged the yard owner which is completely unacceptable...... (i was mortified )

 

[FanyDuChamp]

If she barges out make her back up back into the stable, she will soon learn! You have to be firm about invasion of personal space, if she invades do what her dam would have done and push her back, she will quickly learn. Sounds like she need to learn some respect and manners but you should not have any problems teaching her, they learn quickly.
FDC

 

[rockysmum]

Hate to say it, and I will probably get shot down, but some of the NH/Parelli groundwork stuff does actually work. You just have to pick and choose which bits you are happy with.

The combination of the Parelli (type) headcollar and some of their groundwork sorted our bargy bad mannered cob out. 10 years on she still remembers and has excellent manners.

 

[Wagtail]

Hate to say it, and I will probably get shot down, but some of the NH/Parelli groundwork stuff does actually work. You just have to pick and choose which bits you are happy with.

The combination of the Parelli (type) headcollar and some of their groundwork sorted our bargy bad mannered cob out. 10 years on she still remembers and has excellent manners.

Agree with this. Addressing this kind of problem is one of the Parelli/NH strong points. Like you, I have adopted some of their methods that I think have a useful place in horsemanship but rejected the rest.

 

[noodle_]

actually FWIW - the others on the yard do parelli - i dont do parelli its not for me... BUT we stuck a parelli headcollar on her and she was instantly realised i had more control and did try to take the pee but realised she couldnt.!

no problems with buying her a control headcollar but im not doing parelli (im not knocking it - its really not my thing i prefer "conventional" methods

 

[RubysGold]

I have a bargy young cob.
Moved yards on Wednesday and for the first 3 times i tried getting in and out of stable he kept pushing past me. And it would take about 5 attempts to get him to stay in. Now i carry a whip, he gets a little tap on the chest if he comes near the door, he gets lots of praise for not trying it. He already seems tons better. He can be very in my space but i just ask him to move back when he is

 

[winterwood]

actually FWIW - the others on the yard do parelli - i dont do parelli its not for me... BUT we stuck a parelli headcollar on her and she was instantly realised i had more control and did try to take the pee but realised she couldnt.!

no problems with buying her a control headcollar but im not doing parelli (im not knocking it - its really not my thing i prefer "conventional" methods

This is interesting. The fact that NH type methods are good for teaching a horse manners. How do 'conventional' methods differ? - Discuss!!!!!!

 

[noodle_]

winterwood - i more meant im not into the games etc.....

for leading i have no issues using the headcollar!

also it has to be said the 2 horses who are parelli trained are THE most well mannered, polite horses ive ever met.

but its just not for me thats all

please dont open a can of worms on this thread id like it to stay constructive help for my horse!

 

[Foxhunter49]

I have strong chains across all the stable doors and during the day they stand in behind these - if a horse barges into them then they feel it and it teaches them to stand back even if the chain is down and the door open!
If a horse refuses to move back when I enter the stable I will poke it in the chest with my finger or if I am in the stable and it refuses to move back I will use my fingers over the shoulder blade so they are poking into the soft issue and pull back. They are remarkably quick to learn this means go back. I use a voice command at the same time.

I like the 'Be Nice' halters if they are bargey going to the field.

The most important thing is to be consistent. Every time you go into the stable you make the horse move back. When in the stable he stands where you tell him to stand. If he makes for the door then you make him go back. When the door is open he cannot make a step towards it until you tell him to move.
If they get really pushy then I will get cross and stamp towards them with my hands waving and using a very cross, low and deep, voice and make them wonder what the heck will happen if they take a step further forward,

It takes about two days for a horse to learn from me that if I want the ground he is standing on to move. When they are anticipating and automatically do it then they get a word of praise or a scratch.

They have a choice Butlins or Borstal and as they are not stupid they choose the easy route.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Ditto all the above basically.

Whatever you do, has to be firm, fair and consistent.

With mine, it starts the minute I approach the stable. IF he comes out to barge and/or come into my space, I immediately raise my hands above my head to make myself appear taller - and my body language is basically saying "get back" - which he does coz he knows to now.

So it has to start as soon, or should I say, BEFORE, you've actually approached the horse. Also you need to watch stuff like feeding. Mine used to be very bargey when I went in the stable with his haynet and would very rudely push me out the way to get to his hay and/or feed. Now I make him stand and wait politely till I've either tied up the haynet or put the feed down, THEN he can eat. This is just mimicing what happens in a herd in the wild.

Its all about groundwork, the horse respecting you as herd leader. I recently saw Vanessa Bee (Horse Agility) at a demo and she says that what you need to do is to make sure that YOU are moving the horse's feet around you and not vice versa. She did a very useful exercise where she drew a circle in chalk on the floor around the person with the horse - and they had to make sure that they didn't move out of that!!!! Demonstrating that your horse has to respect your space and not allow yourself to be moved out of that. It also helps you to be more centred too.

Its just a matter or persevering with this I think. Of course, you could go the "traditional" way and put a chifney on your horse and that would probably sort it - but I think that's something that's pretty drastic and if you want a better and more satisfactory long-term fix which will help the relationship with you and your horse into ridden work as well then I think you would benefit from maybe picking and choosing what you adopt from various disciplines such as Monty Roberts, Intelligent Horsemanship, Parelli etc etc. Michael Peace is one method I always find very helpful.

Often, it is helpful to have someone come out and help you with these issues as often with groundwork its not just a matter of method, its timing that's crucial. Again, lots of choice, but personally I'd ask around in your area and see if anyone has any particular recommendations.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Can I recommend a rope cow halter? Available from farm supply stores for about £5!
As others have said, it's actually your body language which is the key here.
We have beautifully mannered horses, apparently quite effortlessly, but a few years ago we paid some-one else to put them out for us Mon-Fri. Every weekend we had to insist on good manners as the horses were pushing their luck with us. You need every-one who deals with your horse to have the same expectations.

 

[winterwood]

Noodle
I understand what you are saying. I Don't want this thread to degenerate into the slagging matches that often occur. So completely agree


I genuinely am interested in people discussing in a calm way why NH methods are so effective at getting a horse to understand basic manners. And how this differs from conventional training.

I do a lot of work with what can be described as 'difficult' horses. The vast majority of which are ill mannered on the ground. Very often once this issue is addressed, other bits of the jigsaw fall into place.

Doing effective ground work with a horse and setting boundaries is so beneficial as a foundation to build on, but so often appears to be something that few people spend enough time/effort on.

I am an Intelligent Horsemanship Recommended Associate and I think if you speak to other people that have had Recommended Associates out to work with their horse, most, if not all, will have done some foundation exercises asking the horse to walk, stop (without overtaking) and back up willingly as, I feel, it is such an integeral part of having a horse that is respectful.

 

[winterwood]

Some good replies so far by the way to help you (Noodle) with your issue

 

[fburton]

Its all about groundwork, the horse respecting you as herd leader.

That's one point of view - but not the only one. For example...

I recently saw Vanessa Bee (Horse Agility) at a demo and she says that what you need to do is to make sure that YOU are moving the horse's feet around you and not vice versa. She did a very useful exercise where she drew a circle in chalk on the floor around the person with the horse - and they had to make sure that they didn't move out of that!!!! Demonstrating that your horse has to respect your space and not allow yourself to be moved out of that. It also helps you to be more centred too.

This useful exercise works because it gets the person to be more assertive and definite in telling their horse where he can move and where he can't, and sets up a clear criterion for enforceable boundaries. I would say it's about the horse effectively learning what is expected of him - a general set of behaviours that we call "respect for space". I don't think it has anything to do with the horse viewing us as "herd leader", though people naturally like to think it does. The improvement in the horse's behaviour can be explained completely and simply in terms of learning (viz. certain actions have certain consequences). That's what groundwork does. It isn't necessary to muddy the waters with ideas about herd dynamics, hierarchy, dominance, etc.

 

[noodle_]

thanks all


to make it clear - the person who puts my horse out is FAR BETTER at i than me!!

dosent take no pushy etc.. but very good with her, no poking/smacking just patience!! (something which i admit i lack)




I did some work with her tonight, using a schooling whip and a "back" command....tapped the floor when she didnt move back, she got the message after 4 goes.... so she learnt tonight when i enter her stable and say back she goes and stands on her shavings bit rather than in my face - she then gets a pat and a good girl

its a start!, i will be horrified if she barges my yard owner again though...! given me a serious kick up the bum to sort the little monkey out!!

 

[PennyJ]

Can I just stress that when the horse "gets it right" and remembers its manners whether prompted by you or not, please don't forget to praise it and say something along the lines of good boy, thank you (or whatever). The vast majority of them just want to please, but sometimes I genuinely believe they actually don't understand the signals they are being given. Again, back to consistency!

I have 4 foals to sort out every day along with the big ones, and being ultra consistent with clear expectations of what I would like them to do and lots of praise when they actually do it, is really reaping dividends. They usually know what is going to happen next and there is no pratting about, which is good when you're in a hurry...

 

[noodle_]

i did ^^

she got a verbal good girl and a pat

i think my YO got it right... she (my horse) is a bit slow at learning but once its there..... haha (bout right)!

im just glad im on a lvely yard with nice patient owners who are brilliant with my horse as i was utterly mortified this morning!