Barking dogs on private land causing horse to bolt

[brooksan]

Hi all,
Had a bit of a scary incident today and just want to know what everyone's thoughts are.

On my hacking route there is a beautiful house that has land that comes up to the road separated by a hedge. There are two very big and very barky dogs that are allowed out freely on that land and are owned by the house.

Whilst out on a hack the dogs have come running up to the hedge line and started to bark. My pony has run forward and as she has done this the dogs have then chased her all the way up the hedge line, she went into full panic and bolted.

I don't know what to think because on one hand the dogs are on private land and are secured behind the hedge. However the barking and the chasing could cause an accident.

What are peoples thoughts on this? Can the owners be held liable or not because of the fact the dogs are on private property.

TIA

 

[Sandstone1]

Its difficult as they are on private land. They are secure so can not get on the road. I would say that there is probably not much you can do.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

The dogs are on private land, if you want to ride past you will have work on desensitising your horse to barking dogs.
I was once taken off with by a Clydesdale as we rode past a neighbours field with several colts in. We were trotting past which disturbed the cotls, they came running up to the wall, my mare took fright and I couldn't stop her until we got past their field, so they couldn't follow us. I made sure after that experience (which was totally unexpected) that I could stop her under all circumstances.

 

[stangs]

Not the dog owner’s problem, as long as the dogs are secure. It’s your responsibility as owner to get your horse comfortable around barking dogs.

 

[Tiddlypom]

As the other replies, as long as the dogs are securely contained on the owner's property then there is no comeback on the owners.

If not dogs, it could be horses or bullocks charging about behind a fence, and you wouldn't expect the owners of either of those to be responsible if your horse took fright.

We have a couple of places to negotiate with dogs that charge up to the fence or gate, and luckily the horses soon seem to learn that the dogs, being contained, are not a threat.

 

[Red-1]

I always say that, as long as they are secured, they are under control so it is my problem, not the home owner's.

The dogs near us are up high, bark through a fence and dive like dolphins. The dogs are big too. First time hacking a new horse past, I usually take a companion as I know it is unusually spooky.

BH is turned on the arena in winter, up against the road. He sometimes upsets horses passing, if the riders aren't in control. He has a 5 rail fence, 5ft gap then a 6ft fence, then a wide ditch then a verge. I reckon that if people can't control their horses, it is their issue as my horse is well constrained back from the road.

There is a field in the village where a livery yard has loads of horses galloping at any passing horses. I tend to avoid that area as, although my horse doesn't do anything wrong, he certainly gets on his toes and it is the main road. If it was an area nearer me, I would do more work on it, but it is a place where there is a bridle way as an alternative, just 100yds further.

The plumber's dog on the main road comes bursting at the gate, clanging into it. BH and Rigs are ready for it now! It took training though. I also usually 'welcome' the dogs, "Hello doggies!" as I think that helps.

I am interested, what do you think the dog owners should do? It sounds like they are securely fenced. Are they to not use their garden?

As a specific answer to your question, no I don't think they are liable. I think you would be though, if you lost control of your horse on the road and caused someone an injury or damaged a car or similar.

 

[stormox]

Theres nothing you can do, theyr on private land. Try getting your horse used to them, and other scary objects.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Just stop hacking out until you and your pony are able to cope with encountering perfectly normal things.

 

[Gloi]

There will always be one somewhere, unfortunately. So long as they aren't getting out and chasing you up the road your pony needs to get used to them. If they do chase you up the road you can report them ... as I have done in the past.

 

[Jenko109]

Just stop hacking out until you and your pony are able to cope with encountering perfectly normal things.

Catty.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

When I went to view my then 2 yr old cob, I was pleased to see that she didn't react to the spaniels behind the metal gate who charged at us and barked as we walked past, I knew she would make a safe hack, especially as she also ignored the man pressure washing his car on the road, the double decker bus, motor bike and the Landrover and trailer full of rattling gardeners tools.

 

[littleshetland]

I used to have to ride past a property where 3 or 4 big labradors would lie in wait for passing horses and then rush the (secure) fence barking like crazy. Unfortunately their property was right next to very busy B road, but I had no choice but to hack past most days. The horses did get used to it , but I found as I approached the dratted dogs, I'd start barking (yes -really!) just to alert the neddies that they were going to get barked at....it worked!

 

[littleshetland]

Just stop hacking out until you and your pony are able to cope with encountering perfectly normal things.

How's your horse supposed to get used to 'perfectly normal things' if you stop hacking it out?

 

[Indy]

Catty.

If they stop hacking out how can they get used to perfectly normal things?

 

[Indy]

Got beaten to it. I was replying to KIT and somehow managed to quote you Jenko.

Anyway I have this problem but with horses careering around behind a hedge and with my horse I normally find getting her into a good forward working trot focusses her mind more on what she's supposed to be doing as opposed to what's going on behind the hedge.

 

[Peglo]

My horse got completely spooked by mini shetlands which took me by complete surprise. She loves other ponies and we were hacking with her field mate but she still turned and ran off in the other direction. I was then a bit concerned we had to go past pigs but of course she didn’t even look at them. It is just one of the downsides of hacking unfortunately

 

[SEL]

Hi all,
Had a bit of a scary incident today and just want to know what everyone's thoughts are.

On my hacking route there is a beautiful house that has land that comes up to the road separated by a hedge. There are two very big and very barky dogs that are allowed out freely on that land and are owned by the house.

Whilst out on a hack the dogs have come running up to the hedge line and started to bark. My pony has run forward and as she has done this the dogs have then chased her all the way up the hedge line, she went into full panic and bolted.

I don't know what to think because on one hand the dogs are on private land and are secured behind the hedge. However the barking and the chasing could cause an accident.

What are peoples thoughts on this? Can the owners be held liable or not because of the fact the dogs are on private property.

TIA

I have a similar problem on a bridleway and its just as you come up to the main road - cars approach too fast and its a blind bend to very unsafe. I'm delighted (not) to see that the dog has been joined by a trampoline and a football net. About the only good thing with the recent weather is no one has been in the garden.

I used to attach a leadrope to my saddle and hop off if I could see the dogs in the garden. Their hedge hasn't grown yet so its easier to suss out what is going on before you're on top of it. Lots of praise, good boy, treats and we started to go past with eyes on stalks but without the risk of running onto the road. He's still not great with yapping dogs behind fences but he will at least now stop and listen which means I can get off if I'm not 100% convinced he's 'with me'

 

[FinnishLapphund]

As others have said, you could exchange the dogs to pigs, donkeys, sheep etc, and as long as they are on their land, and stays on their land, they have the right to be there, and to bark, bray or whatever.

Maybe it would be different if the dog owner stood in a door, and told the dogs to run up to the hedge, and bark at passersby to scare them, but would you be able to prove it?

 

[AmyMay]

Just stop hacking out until you and your pony are able to cope with encountering perfectly normal things.

I actually think that’s a bit unfair. A barking dog should be no issue, however dogs running up and down a fence line (possibly partly unseen) is a whole other issue. And one that many horses would struggle to cope with,

We had this issue, but it was a garden on the road. Which could have been catastrophic. The Dog Warden did intervene and the owners agreed not to have the dog loose in the front garden during certain hours.

 

[wills_91]

I used to have to ride past a property where 3 or 4 big labradors would lie in wait for passing horses and then rush the (secure) fence barking like crazy. Unfortunately their property was right next to very busy B road, but I had no choice but to hack past most days. The horses did get used to it , but I found as I approached the dratted dogs, I'd start barking (yes -really!) just to alert the neddies that they were going to get barked at....it worked!

This actually made me laugh out loud.

OP - could you hack out with company for a while?

 

[thefarsideofthefield]

Just stop hacking out until you and your pony are able to cope with encountering perfectly normal things.

Another helpful suggestion , brought to you from the team at ' Don't Go In The Water Until You Can Swim ' .
Stay safe folks

 

[brooksan]

Thanks everyone. Lots of nice advice here and lots for me to think about

 

[SheriffTruman]

Desensitizing is never a bad idea. And learning how to stop, by training the one-rein stop or other methods.

You never know what will spook a horse in the end. I used to share an Arab mare who was terrified of fishermen. Peacefully fishing, as they are wont to do.

 

[PeterNatt]

Actually there is something that you can do! You can ask the local District Councils Enforcement Officer to compel the owners of the property to prevent the dogs from coming close to the boundary of their property by using the Enviromental Protection Act as ammended. Another case where this was sucesfully used was on a bridleway that passed a property and the dogs disturbed any horse that passed.

 

[Clodagh]

Actually there is something that you can do! You can ask the local District Councils Enforcement Officer to compel the owners of the property to prevent the dogs from coming close to the boundary of their property by using the Enviromental Protection Act as ammended. Another case where this was sucesfully used was on a bridleway that passed a property and the dogs disturbed any horse that passed.

That’s absolutely ludicrous! So in case you frighten anything your dog can’t use your garden. The world has gone mad. So farmers can also be prevented from having pigs/bullocks/anything moving by the road in case it scares a horse? Bizarre.
Not having a dig at you OP. I’d try to go hacking with a sensible and calm companion so your horse can see they don’t need to be afraid.

 

[JackFrost]

The correct (in law) answer to this probably lies in the Control of Dogs Act and Dangerous Dogs Acts. Both are explained somewhere on line, and one at least was updated not long ago. One of them states that there is an offence if a dog intimidates a person, the test certainly used to be from the perception of the 'victim'. They have different requirements as to whether the dog is on private property, also one includes 'attacks' on other people's animals and the other doesn't. (Sorry I can't remember all the details. )

The best way to approach this could be to ignore the fact that a horse is involved. Take a look at this legislation. YOU felt threatened and under attack - that might be enough to trigger an offence and enable you to get action. Possibly don't confuse the issue by making it a horse matter.

I see you have posted in the Tack Room. Maybe try posting this in the dog section - you may have more chance of getting a response from those who know dog law.

 

[ycbm]

The correct (in law) answer to this probably lies in the Control of Dogs Act and Dangerous Dogs Acts. Both are explained somewhere on line, and one at least was updated not long ago. One of them states that there is an offence if a dog intimidates a person, the test certainly used to be from the perception of the 'victim'. They have different requirements as to whether the dog is on private property, also one includes 'attacks' on other people's animals and the other doesn't. (Sorry I can't remember all the details. )

The best way to approach this could be to ignore the fact that a horse is involved. Take a look at this legislation. YOU felt threatened and under attack - that might be enough to trigger an offence and enable you to get action. Possibly don't confuse the issue by making it a horse matter.

I see you have posted in the Tack Room. Maybe try posting this in the dog section - you may have more chance of getting a response from those who know dog law.

It isn't really reasonable to complain to a dog owner that their dog is running around fully contained within their own garden, though, is it?


ETA Like others, the worst culprits for fence line chasing for me have been young cattle. My horse was terrified to the point of being dangerous and I took him out again and again until he no longer was. It's clearly not reasonable to expect a farmer not to put cattle in a roadside field, or to train/restrain them and I don't see it as reasonable to expect dog owners to control dogs on their private property either.

 

[YorksG]

If you want to contribute to people not wanting horses on roads, then by all means complain to your council about dogs enclosed on their owners land!
I am absolutely horrified that it is being advocated that people use the dangerous dogs act in this context.

 

[YorksG]

The correct (in law) answer to this probably lies in the Control of Dogs Act and Dangerous Dogs Acts. Both are explained somewhere on line, and one at least was updated not long ago. One of them states that there is an offence if a dog intimidates a person, the test certainly used to be from the perception of the 'victim'. They have different requirements as to whether the dog is on private property, also one includes 'attacks' on other people's animals and the other doesn't. (Sorry I can't remember all the details. )

The best way to approach this could be to ignore the fact that a horse is involved. Take a look at this legislation. YOU felt threatened and under attack - that might be enough to trigger an offence and enable you to get action. Possibly don't confuse the issue by making it a horse matter.

I see you have posted in the Tack Room. Maybe try posting this in the dog section - you may have more chance of getting a response from those who know dog law.

To remove the horse from this, could imo be seen as attempting to pevert the course of justice, the only reason that the op was frightened was because she was on a horse and it is likely the horse was the reason the dogs barked.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I think dogs in a garden at the side of a bridleway might be viewed differently from those elsewhere, as it is reasonable to expect that horses will be on the bridleway and not necessarily desensitised to barking dogs. Riders could be using the bridleway to avoid using a road with a particularly reactive/unpredictable horse.

There was a sad case near us, several years ago. 2 large dogs were in a garden at the junction of 2 roads, they barked at a couple of ponies ridden by young teenagers. The ponies set off at speed down a fairly steep hill and one fell causing serious injury to itself and its rider. The pony was pts and the rider hospitalised for some time.

However the garden ended long before the point at which the pony fell, there were driveways and a minor road that they could have turned up to stop the ponies. I have always been under the impression that the teenagers were screaming and rather enjoying the experience (as teenagers tend to do)until it all went wrong. There were no prosections that arose from the incident, under the Dangerous Dogs, or any other, Act.