Bates

[sam72431]

I have a wintec gp with cair which fits ok but when we go into canter tends to slip, I've had it checked and its fine, but I dont see how it can be if it slips not loads but its a bit annoying, she has no probs with back or anything, but I'd like to get a dressage saddle, been having a look at a few but I like the look of the bates, but as they are the same make would I have the same problem? What else would you suggest I'd like something that I could adjust as she changes shape ideally, I also like the look of Anky obviously I'd get if fitted properly but just having a look at all the options.

 

[RachelB]

You wouldn't necessarily have the same problem with a Bates dressage as obviously it's a dressage saddle not a GP and therefore built differently anyway. There are three dressage saddles in the Bates range as far as I know so you have plenty to choose from. Thorowgood have also now made gullet plates for their saddles to make them adjustable like the Wintec/Bates saddles, so you could consider them too. Wow is the other obvious choice but only if you have a bottomless wallet!!

 

[em21xx]

i also have a wintec gp with cair which has a changeable gullet system. im sure that bates have this aswell but its worth looking into

 

[Kallibear]

What kind of horse do you have? Wintecs are terrible fits on flat, wide horses. They are a TB saddle, with a TB tree and a TB panels (it's an aussie saddle after all, when the TB prevales) and they just cannot fit flat backed horses, like cobs.

The tree is far too curved front-to-back when it's anything wider than a medium (designed to be a decent curavture for a TB when set a medium, and they bend when widened), plus the panels at the back are very cambred (to suit a Tb's sloping loins) and the outside edge digs into flat backs. And the balance is usually too low in front when the width is actually correct, leading the saddlers fitting them too narrow.

It all adds up to a saddle that slides badly. Too-narrow saddles on round horses slide anyways (as they 'perch'), the saddle rocks (more sliding) and there is only a small area touching their back behind, so again slides.

I had a wintec 500 'proffesionally' fitted to my cob. I had it fitted numerous times in fact, by a master saddler. It slid like nothing on earth, to the extent where I couldn't canter her without falling off. Told to tighten the girth, use a non-slip pad, sit straight, blah blah blah.

I eventually got another saddler out, one who won't touch Wintecs with a bargepole (there are quite a few about nowadays) and she pointed out the problems straight away (plus had the above rant, which I have since heard from various saddlers).

The wintec 500 and 2000/Pro saddles are all the same, GP and dressage - same tree and panels, diff flaps. The only one that's different is the Isobella Werth saddle, which is much better designed (and way more expensive!). But if the 500/2000 saddle fits the IW one CAN'T -it's totally different shape.

 

[CBAnglo]

Agree.

I grew up in Australia and everything is a QHxTB - bates fits. I always had a Bates for everything.

Since moving to England, I have never used a Bates again. I do still really like the quality of Bates (as opposed to Wintec) but it wouldnt fit either of my horses as you need a true type TB. And even then I find the newer Bates dont fit like the old ones.

If you are looking for an adjustable saddle, I would say a Saddle Company (not just because I fit them) as they have an adjustable tree - not just the gullet. Kieffer trees can also be adjusted.

Synthetic wise, I would go for a Thorowgood (but not the new models).

why do you feel that you need an adjustable saddle? Is your horse prone to changing shape?

 

[sam72431]

She is a Dutch Warmblood, she is quite prone to it she gets ridden six times a week but its only recently she is started to work properly so she has been changing shape, i dont know whether to get a new saddle now or wait until she is really muscled up in a few months or so, the saddle is fine and only slips slightly in canter its not major so not dangerous just a bit annoying doesnt seem to be causing any problems (she has regular physio due to a back injury and i have been assured that the saddle is not causing any problems or discomfort by the physio. What do you think i should do?

 

[CBAnglo]

I think then it is more of a case of muscle wastage rather than her "changing shape" i.e. maturing.

With muscle wastage there are a couple of ways to go. One way is an adjustable saddle and get the tree altered as and when. The other is to use pads, risers, sheepskins etc to fill out the gaps. My preferred way is to fit the saddle slightly wider, giving the muscle room to develop and keep adjusting until the horse is correct. Others like to use pads etc.

I havent seen your horse so I do not know what the problems are. if the saddle is slipping it doesnt fit. it may not be doing short term damage, but it isnt doing any good and long term you will have problems. the problem you have is that by contnuing to use this saddle, you are unlikely to build up the muscle required to "fill her out" in order to have a new saddle fitted.

If your horse has had a back injury, I would also suggest using a prolite to even out the pressure of the saddle. The Wintec tree is so banana shaped. I was explaining this to a client on the weekend who had an assortment of wintecs. I showed how the saddle rocked back and forth on her horses's back, showed what it looked like when she was jumping and worse - showed her exactly where the pressure point on her horse's back was (he almost sat down). She had been assured that the saddle was not doing any harm by her physio which was true - the harm had already been done. She just wasnt doing anything to fix the problem and it would only get worse.

I am not saying that this is the case with your horse I am merely using it as an example.

 

[loopylucifer]

you may find a dressage saddle will suit this type of horsebetter regardless of make if they have big shoulders/ movement then strighter cut will suit better.
i have a bates gp and love it but for my other horse the wintc dressage fits fine but gp just didn't work because ofher type.

 

[sam72431]

Hi

Thanks I had a physio out today and she said the saddle fits as best it can, she has suggested using a numed as it is slightly wide but not wide enough to go down a gullet, thanks for all your help! Thanks

 

[happihorse]

I had a Bates Caprilli GP saddle and Bates Isabel for my horse a few years ago. I had the same problem as you with the Caprilli in that it slipped a little and the panels never really 'sat' on the horse's back, even though a saddler said it fitted.

However, with the Isabel saddle, I never had a problem and it moulded like a glove. Only problem with it that I have found is that the leather isn't that great quality so it has discoloured. Personally, I would prefer to go for a nearly new 'top' brand saddle at around the same price.