BBC Countryfile To Investigate The UK’s Abandoned And Neglected

[AdorableAlice]

Sadly, the council do have to give the owners some opportunity to get their horse(s) back after removal even if it's just for the 4 days that council guy mentioned.

Oh and can you imagine the outcry if it was announced 'coming to a park next you - the horse slaughter team - by special arrangement of the council' ?

I am not bothered by the outcry. The sooner people understand it is not acceptable to cause suffering to any animal the better. The vast majority of those tethered or fly grazing horses are poor creatures and suffering. There is not a day that passes without HH or other equine sources highlighting yet another sad case.

Putting down in situ would force certain types of owners to think more carefully about how they keep their horses and it just might alleviate some suffering.

 

[chillipup]

I am not bothered by the outcry. The sooner people understand it is not acceptable to cause suffering to any animal the better. The vast majority of those tethered or fly grazing horses are poor creatures and suffering. There is not a day that passes without HH or other equine sources highlighting yet another sad case.

Putting down in situ would force certain types of owners to think more carefully about how they keep their horses and it just might alleviate some suffering.

You may not be bothered by the outcry, I was thinking more of the people who would have the unenviable task of slaughtering them, next to a housing estate say, without getting lynched

 

[splashgirl45]

I am not bothered by the outcry. The sooner people understand it is not acceptable to cause suffering to any animal the better. The vast majority of those tethered or fly grazing horses are poor creatures and suffering. There is not a day that passes without HH or other equine sources highlighting yet another sad case.

Putting down in situ would force certain types of owners to think more carefully about how they keep their horses and it just might alleviate some suffering.

also putting down in situ would be less distressing for the horse, who is the MOST important in this situation.

 

[crabbymare]

they should have stated that the horses were euthanised at their ecnter and not sent for slaughter as a lot of the public would automatically think pts = slaughter houise. they should have also pressed for a law allowing the charities to castrate any colts or stallions that are siezed (possibly all colts and stallions that are being fly grazed should be immediately siezed and castrated by law) and that the owners need to show a valid passport that matches the horse before they are allowed to have them back. that would start to cut down on some unwanted foals. they were a bit wishy washy about it though and were almost saying to people not to report them as the nice fluffy ponies would be killed

 

[dominobrown]

Whilst I agree there are far too many ueless horses around I disagree putting down in situ is the answer.
There may be cases of stolen/ lost horses which are fly grazing, argument in families etc etc. Taking the horse away for 4 days may give the horse time to be found, I.e if it has a microchip/ reported to police as stolen, another family member/ ex wife or whatever might take the horse. Obviously this may not be the case the vast majority of the time, but how would you feel if one of yours was let out of its field.. a passer by popped in a random field... next thing you know its dead.

Also agree with crabbymare about passports/ gelding etc.

 

[rowan666]

they should have stated that the horses were euthanised at their ecnter and not sent for slaughter as a lot of the public would automatically think pts = slaughter houise. they should have also pressed for a law allowing the charities to castrate any colts or stallions that are siezed (possibly all colts and stallions that are being fly grazed should be immediately siezed and castrated by law) and that the owners need to show a valid passport that matches the horse before they are allowed to have them back. that would start to cut down on some unwanted foals. they were a bit wishy washy about it though and were almost saying to people not to report them as the nice fluffy ponies would be killed

Absolutely agree, seems too obvious for most councils and the RSPCA to grasp though

Whilst I agree there are far too many ueless horses around I disagree putting down in situ is the answer.
There may be cases of stolen/ lost horses which are fly grazing, argument in families etc etc. Taking the horse away for 4 days may give the horse time to be found, I.e if it has a microchip/ reported to police as stolen, another family member/ ex wife or whatever might take the horse. Obviously this may not be the case the vast majority of the time, but how would you feel if one of yours was let out of its field.. a passer by popped in a random field... next thing you know its dead.

Also agree with crabbymare about passports/ gelding etc.

very valid point!

 

[chillipup]

Absolutely agree, seems too obvious for most councils and the RSPCA to grasp though

What bit?

 

[rowan666]

they should have also pressed for a law allowing the charities to castrate any colts or stallions that are siezed (possibly all colts and stallions that are being fly grazed should be immediately siezed and castrated by law) and that the owners need to show a valid passport that matches the horse before they are allowed to have them back. that would start to cut down on some unwanted foals.

What bit?

^^ castration (and/or PTS for that matter)and passport checks, seems so obvious, granted expensive but I'm sure we are all in agreement that something needs to be done

 

[paddi22]

in ireland they brought in an equine premises number, and your horse has to be kept at one - that way fly grazers couldn't be granted one. so if they are impounded you need to show the registered premises it's kept at. surely it wouldn't be rocket science to bring in a proper microchip and database system (similar to the way car ownership works), so every owner is easily traced.

 

[YorksG]

The problem with any/all of the solutions is that they cost to put in place, at a time when Local Authorities are seeing funding cut. I doubt if Joe Public would agree to fund horse welfare when social care costs are not being met adequately.

 

[chillipup]

Thanks r, I'm sure all the charities that deal with horses are only to aware of the need to geld all the colts/stallions that come into their care and do so accordingly. I doubt you'd find a large charity that doesn't. I think the RSPCA knows all too well, as do all the other major horse charities, just what this chronic over population of equines is all about; they are the ones on the frontline remeber and I think they all (including the rspca) have more than a grasp on the situation as they get to face the reality, unlike you and I. The RSPCA guy that was interviewed on this program, clearly stated that at least 50% of fly grazed horses removed will face slaughter. So where you think they don't have a grasp is beyond me.

Fly grazing has been a major problem for decades. To finally have laws in place that now make it unlawful and that the local Councils have the right & responsibility to remove them, is a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, as I said on a previous post, not all Councils are willing to take this responsibility as it costs them money and if they aren't even prepared to do this, they sure as hell won't want to become responsible for castrating some of these horses as well.

Agreed, this situation shouldn't continue but without the public (by public, I mean every one of us) stepping up and demanding change, it won't happen. At the moment it's left for the charities to deal with by both lobbying parliament and having to pick up the pieces. This shouldn't have be the case. Government should be overseeing the changes that need to be made but until the regulations about identifying individual horses and passports is enforced by them, the situation will continue.

Give your local Council a call and ask them what they're doing about fly grazing.

 

[crabbymare]

Thanks r, I'm sure all the charities that deal with horses are only to aware of the need to geld all the colts/stallions that come into their care and do so accordingly. The RSPCA guy that was interviewed on this program, clearly stated that at least 50% of fly grazed horses removed will face slaughter. So where you think they don't have a grasp is beyond me.

I am only taking 2 points in your post so have hacked it accordingly. my idea is that the gelding would be done at the cost of the owner if they wanted the horse back and would be done before it was returned to them so would not cost the councils more since I am fairly certain that the charities would geld any that were in their rehoming plan. also you have picked up on exactly what I think the public will pick up on and that is that you think they will go for slaughter. that was not said. what they did say was that the horses would be euthanised and not that they would go to the slaughterhouse. they should have made it very clear that the ones that were pts were done by a vet at their premises as its very easy for people to get the wrong idea the way they did the program

 

[ycbm]

Playing devils advocate here and donning hard hat, but someone needs to point out that there's been a serious loss of national common grounds and grazing as we all know thousands of miles of bridleways/access rights.

Common ground was never meant to keep leisure horses on, though, was it? It was for farmers and for people breeding working horses, I think.

 

[Horsewithsocks]

The government and councils (and the police) need to man up and tackle the 'community' that breed these poor things.

 

[Suelin]

The government and councils (and the police) need to man up and tackle the 'community' that breed these poor things.

Absolutely this!!!!! None of what I saw last night is remotely acceptable.

 

[Alec Swan]

The simple answer to those who acquire horses in the fashion that we know exists and was demonstrated, and in the vain belief that they'll make money from their enterprise, is that when they are illegally grazed, so they are taken (confiscated) and those that are saleable are sold and those that aren't, end up at Potters or a similar place, and that will probably be the bulk of them.

It isn't the horse's fault? No, it isn't, but they're animals and just like sheep and cattle, and the only 'Right' that they have is to be treated humanly. No animal born has a 'Right' to life, which is why when we kill them, we aren't charged with murder. When the owner relies upon an illegal activity by which to continue their 'enterprise', so the quickest route to stopping them is confiscation and have them face the loss of their 'investment'. Just as illegally kept and driven cars are confiscated and crushed, so the same approach needs to be taken with those who keep and breed horses, and who attempt to create a market which simply doesn't exist. It's the only certain way forward that I can see.

For once, I thought that the programme was well balanced and of value.

Alec.

 

[southerncomfort]

The government and councils (and the police) need to man up and tackle the 'community' that breed these poor things.

Yes...they were very careful not to mention the main protagonists weren't they!

 

[madlady]

TBH I don't think these new laws will be utilised by the councils.

Lets face it the sorts who are fly grazing their horses aren't going to pay the £1800 bill for the equine bailiffs to get their horses back - why would they they'll just breed more! This means that the councils will have no way of recouping those costs and the sad fact is that there isn't that sort of spare money floating around in local councils.

I can see it being of vast use to private landowners who get horses dumped on their land but council land - probably not so much.

 

[Clodagh]

They should be PTS witihn 24 hours of being found in your field (or wherever). 24 hours is enough time for a central database check to take place, and I imagine if my horse got out I would inform everyone imaginable within 24 hours.
The slaughterhouses would hopefully make enough money from the meat and so on to cover the bulk of the cost and the council would not have to contribute too much. Heck, if they were dumped in my field I would pay to have them shot (but not the full exorbitant rate, hopefully).

 

[Penny Less]

Two horses appeared on our local community woodland last week. Tethered in bushes on short chains which of course wrapped round any other bush nearby.No water, no hay,. standing in mud. Council informed and are trying to get them removed. Ive avoided walking dog over there till hopefully they are gone. This woodland is a favourite for dog walkers and used by local kids going to school (some of whom are shall we say, yobs!) I wouldn't want any horse of mine tethered where it could be abused or worried by dogs.

 

[anuvb]

Common ground was never meant to keep leisure horses on, though, was it? It was for farmers and for people breeding working horses, I think.

But in some areas these horses were (and possibly still are) 'working horses'. I remember growing up in the North East 30 odd years ago and seeing lots of Rag Bone men pulling carts round the area with horses that would then be fly grazed on the local common land. I rarely saw a horse kept on mushed up grazing like the one shown on Countryfile, and they usually were well fed and watered. The horses would sell for a fair bit of money too...

Times have changed, but people's traditions and need to keep a tie with their roots, when often they may be 3rd or 4th generation unemployed can mean a lot to some people. Especially if they can sell the horse on for more money than they paid, bred or kept it for.

I'm not condoning it, but that it is often a more complicated and cultural issue than people give credit for and is often more of an issue in some of the most deprived areas of the country. Countryfile barely skimmed the surface...

 

[fatpiggy]

in ireland they brought in an equine premises number, and your horse has to be kept at one - that way fly grazers couldn't be granted one. so if they are impounded you need to show the registered premises it's kept at. surely it wouldn't be rocket science to bring in a proper microchip and database system (similar to the way car ownership works), so every owner is easily traced.

They brought in other rules about travellers too - so they all travelled and set up shop here

 

[ester]

They should be PTS witihn 24 hours of being found in your field (or wherever). 24 hours is enough time for a central database check to take place, and I imagine if my horse got out I would inform everyone imaginable within 24 hours.
The slaughterhouses would hopefully make enough money from the meat and so on to cover the bulk of the cost and the council would not have to contribute too much. Heck, if they were dumped in my field I would pay to have them shot (but not the full exorbitant rate, hopefully).

Surely the issue there is that there isn't a central database? I guess that there is also an issue with the slaughterhouse taking them if they are passportless/no drug history known (I know they are about the least likely to have been given any medication but!)

 

[fatpiggy]

I am not bothered by the outcry. The sooner people understand it is not acceptable to cause suffering to any animal the better. The vast majority of those tethered or fly grazing horses are poor creatures and suffering. There is not a day that passes without HH or other equine sources highlighting yet another sad case.

Putting down in situ would force certain types of owners to think more carefully about how they keep their horses and it just might alleviate some suffering.

Most of the poor creatures were probably heading for the dog-food tin anyway. At least this way their miserable existence is shortened.

 

[fatpiggy]

A sad missed opportunity was this report. Tom Heap is a dreadful journalist and should be fired from Countryfile. Superficial, trite and more about him making monologues to camera then exploring the implications of this change in the law (positive and negative).

That's a bit of a sweeping statement! The item was geared towards townies who don't have much knowledge of anything that happens in the countryside - these are the people who the BBC is aiming to get out of the streets and onto the footpaths. Tom Heap regularly does very informative programmes on radio 4 and let's face it, he has made a good living out being a journalist so he can't be that dreadful.

 

[Goldenstar]

also putting down in situ would be less distressing for the horse, who is the MOST important in this situation.

Actually no it's what is safest for the humans involved that's important .
PTS badly handled horses ( and you have to assume they are badly handled )in a public area is defiantly easier said than done .
When I was involved we almost always moved to a place of safety to PTS unless the horse was too sick or injured to move .
We happily send badly injured and sick horses to horsepital at all times of the night so I can't see the issue with moving these horses at night .
I have attended a mass removal at night , night time was chosen because it was the quietest time with the least travel going on so it was thought safest for the general public .
It's a huge cultural customn the keeping of horses in urban areas as a form of currency it's an interesting subject for someone to study I also think a fair proportion of these horses keepers enjoy having lots of agencies running about in circles it's amuses them .

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

It's a huge cultural customn the keeping of horses in urban areas as a form of currency it's an interesting subject for someone to study I also think a fair proportion of these horses keepers enjoy having lots of agencies running about in circles it's amuses them .

You're right and without question. The travelling and nomadic gypsy was traditionally a trader in horses, and mostly amongst themselves, but the modern day house domiciled breeder/trader, as you rightly say, views his possessions as currency and a trading commodity, the problem of course, is that the only limited market for his horses is amongst his own. Sad though it is, with a zero tolerance level, so there is only one way to pull the rug from under his feet.

Alec.

Ets; and I agree with you, excepting in an emergency, putting horses down 'on-site' and in the company of their companions is not the way forwards.

 

[Lanky Loll]

Surely the issue there is that there isn't a central database? I guess that there is also an issue with the slaughterhouse taking them if they are passportless/no drug history known (I know they are about the least likely to have been given any medication but!)

Yep slaughterhouse won't take them without a passport and 90% of these won't have one.
It's one of the reasons we're seeing such an increase in dumped horses - they can't have them PTS as they don't have the documentation.
What would help is a passport amnesty - give them a time frame within which unpassported horses could be taken for slaughter.

 

[case895]

That's a bit of a sweeping statement! The item was geared towards townies who don't have much knowledge of anything that happens in the countryside - these are the people who the BBC is aiming to get out of the streets and onto the footpaths. Tom Heap regularly does very informative programmes on radio 4 and let's face it, he has made a good living out being a journalist so he can't be that dreadful.

He is dreadful. His stock approach is to find the dark cloud inside every silver lining, closely followed up by "and who is to blame for this?" You could give him the happiest story to cover and he would manage to inject misery and lay blame on someone for something.

 

[splashgirl45]

Actually no it's what is safest for the humans involved that's important .
PTS badly handled horses ( and you have to assume they are badly handled )in a public area is defiantly easier said than done .
When I was involved we almost always moved to a place of safety to PTS unless the horse was too sick or injured to move .
We happily send badly injured and sick horses to horsepital at all times of the night so I can't see the issue with moving these horses at night .
I have attended a mass removal at night , night time was chosen because it was the quietest time with the least travel going on so it was thought safest for the general public .
It's a huge cultural customn the keeping of horses in urban areas as a form of currency it's an interesting subject for someone to study I also think a fair proportion of these horses keepers enjoy having lots of agencies running about in circles it's amuses them .

I was meaning the poor things who are in a pitiful state.who would not be a threat to humans..better to pts on site,less stress for them, rather than load into box and take to charity....I wasn't meaning feisty unhandled horses....