be nice head collars.

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padderpaws

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Hello.

could I have your experiences on the be nice head collar please. Are they effective for horses that tend to be silly and rear when being turned out? and are they any different from a Dually or a rope/pressure halter?
 
I've not used one, but from the design I'd say that they're harsher than a normal rope halter. I have used one of the latter on a foolish young turnip which felt that rearing when being turned out was a good idea. It only took one try in the rope halter for it to change it's mind!
 
Yeah I've got one for my mare. She started being bolshy to turn out and then started refusing to walk out of her stable. I used it for a week, max, and she's fine again. I haven't had to use it for ages now :-)
 
A fairly harsh piece of equipment, but used with care can be effective. I personally wouldn't use it with a horse that rears as it has studs that apply pressure to the poll, which in my experience can cause a horse to rear if they try to resist the pressure applied.
 
They are a harsh piece of equipment and should be used very carefully and with caution.

The name always made me laugh, they aren't so much be-nice as be-nasty!

Be careful because they are quite a severe piece of equipment unless they have changed the design since I last had a look at one.

I don't think novice owners should be allowed near one personally as they could end up making their situation a whole lot worse, but somehow they seem to be the port of call for many inexperienced owners who are encountering problems, but for someone who knows how to release pressure they could help I suppose.
 
With all bits of equipment it dpends on the handler

However I'd rather see someone with this than with a chifney which can cause bone spurs in the mouth.

I have "cured" a horse that tended to rear when objected to loading, the dually didn't work, however the be nice did, problem fixed and back in a rope halter which I use everyday.
 
Personally... I think they are an awful invention. Fine, I get it, it works and does the job you need but WHY do you need to use it?

What is the cause of this rearing?

IME, this causes more rearing because it hurts like hell.

What about doing some in hand work in a normal comfortable headcollar? Or lead in a nice bridle?
 
Jen_Cots said:
With all bits of equipment it dpends on the handler

However I'd rather see someone with this than with a chifney which can cause bone spurs in the mouth.

I have "cured" a horse that tended to rear when objected to loading, the dually didn't work, however the be nice did, problem fixed and back in a .......
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normal leather headcollar now



Agree, far better for inexperienced people IMO, at least they can't cause too much damage in one unlike a Chifney in the wrong hands.
 
tallyhohoho said:
Personally... I think they are an awful invention. Fine, I get it, it works and does the job you need but WHY do you need to use it?
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Why - because some muppet screwed up the horse before I got it - never needed to use a be nice on a well trained homebred!!

tallyhohoho said:
What is the cause of this rearing?
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Horse objecting to what is being asked and using it as simple evasion

tallyhohoho said:
IME, this causes more rearing because it hurts like hell.
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Rear - pressure - horse learns rearing = pressure, so stops rearing... why do you think it causes more (unless you don't use it properly and don't give instant relief when horse behaving)

tallyhohoho said:
What about doing some in hand work in a normal comfortable headcollar? Or lead in a nice bridle?
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Comfortable headcollars = rude horses!
Nice bridle - the mouth is sacred, and I want no pulling or hauling on this most delicate part ! Ever !
 
Jen_Cots said:
Why - because some muppet screwed up the horse before I got it - never needed to use a be nice on a well trained homebred!!

Horse objecting to what is being asked and using it as simple evasion

Rear - pressure - horse learns rearing = pressure, so stops rearing... why do you think it causes more (unless you don't use it properly and don't give instant relief when horse behaving)


Comfortable headcollars = rude horses!
Nice bridle - the mouth is sacred, and I want no pulling or hauling on this most delicate part ! Ever !
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I wasn't having a go at you, why are you having a go at me?
 
Wasn't having a go at you - the only question in there is for you to explain why the poll pressure caused by a be nice would make them rear? (or rear more in my case)
 
I train horses for a living, many of them badly spoiled by previous incompetent handling. Foals, youngsters, older horses, those which are difficult to load, clip, vet, and some which have learned many evasions, including rearing...I use Be-Nice halters for every one of them, and they all respond very well.

Pressure on the poll, when correctly applied and released, causes the release of calming endorphins into the horse's system, so that horses worked correctly in the Be-Nice halter become very easy to work.

I get all my work by recommendation.
 
Ok Jen, appreciate that but just to say it doesn't always work in every single case. There are rearers who do it for fun and ones who do it in fear.
 
Jen_Cots said:
Comfortable headcollars = rude horses!
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No, incompetent humans create rude horses.

Polite horses existed before the routine use of pain inducing halters, in fact polite horses were far more of a common then. Perhaps it is the quick fix pain based training that is actually causing the vast quantity of rude horses that are out there!
 
team barney said:
Perhaps it is the quick fix pain based training that is actually causing the vast quantity of rude horses that are out there!
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Doubtful, as most of these owners wouldn't cough out for chifney, be nice or similar!

To clarify Be Nice is not pain based system, its pressure and release, which is why a silky rope is used. When used well with timing, most horses "get" a Be Nice and often you just need a few sessions and you'll put it away for ages.

However versus the chifney, which can really only be used to yank a horse around, therefore is more of a pain based system. I have never seen any good results with this, I guess the only thing is that its convenient when racing. There are studies out there showing many racehorses suffering with bone spurs due to their use, so the bruising in the mouth is considerable.
 
I use a Be Nice on my pony when he gets a bit big for his boots - he'll be turned out and brought in in it for a week or two because he was a monster for me this morning and lifted my sharer off her feet today dragging her towards some hay.

He'll only need it for a short period of time, and then he'll be back in his normal headcollar.

I find it really useful, and would suggest that those criticising it have probably a) never been dragged off their feet by half a ton of cob and b) never used a Be Nice halter and c) taken the time to properly understand how a pressure halter works.

You take the time to train a horse to understand how to release the pressure - my pony got this almost straight away. You're then giving them the option to release the pressure by complying.

And to be perfectly honest, if a horse crosses the boundaries of what is acceptable behaviour, then it should be put back in its place, sharpish, and that doesn't require a 'polite' fluffy response. They are big animals to be throwing their weight around.
 
Thank you all for your replies. I feel that my horse does it out of excitement at going out which probably equals rudeness I must admit. I do get quite frightened by his dancing about and rears. In the summer he is very good and quiet and bringing him back in is no problem at all he is always very calm. I thought that the be nice head collars were self teaching in as much that if the horse is calm and not putting pressure on then the head collar is loose if he misbehaves the head collar puts pressure on him. I am not an experienced horse person but i understand pressure and release. Should I give it a go??
 
hannahc said:
Because horses (generally) move into pressure, so pressure on the poll = upwards.
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But presumbly, if you're using a be-nice (correctly) on a rearer, the pressure only comes into play when the horse goes up, and immediately releases when it comes back down again, surely? :confused:

I bought a be-nice to use on my stubborn (not scared) loader. In the period between ordering it and picking it up from the post office we had one loading practice and a good old-fashioned bolluxking in a webbing headcollar, and he's loaded immediately, happily and calmly without any extra aids ever since, but I'd rather have it to hand in case it's ever needed.
 
hannahc said:
Because horses (generally) move into pressure, so pressure on the poll = upwards.
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A horse that is being led or knows how to stand tied up has learned to yield to poll pressure.

I agree with all that Jen and Og have said.

I use them if there is a problem horse or an unruly colt. Use it correctly and the lesson is learned fast.
 
Horses instinctively lean into pressure. In effect, they resist it. So they have to be taught to yield.

Horses will rear in response to being held against their instinct to flee. In fact, a huge percentage of horses which rear have been forced to do it through the handler's attempts to restrain them.

The crucial thing about pressure is its timely release. Any attempt to control a horse by restraint will result in the horse resisting. If the horse is afraid, and the handler holds on, the horse will resist even more, and will either pull away or run over the handler. If the horse pulls away and the handler does not release the pressure, the horse will rear or rip away and run.

On the other hand, if a horse throws its head in response to pressure, and the handler immediately releases the pressure, the horse has nothing to resist, and so will not become afraid and will not be forced to rear or run.

I work with horses which have learned to rear. There is nothing I can do to prevent them rearing. What I have to do is demonstrate to them that they will not be restrained against their instinct to flee, and I will not attempt to hold them if they become afraid. Many of them don't try to rear with me because I manage to avoid activating their flight response. They have to be educated, not controlled. They learn to control themselves by learning to yield to pressure and, once they understand that, seeking to remain free of it. Therefore they have no reason to rear.

Horses cannot be expected to behave just because they have a pressure halter on their head. The handler is responsible for the application of pressure, and for the timing of its release. The horse, given careful handling and a chance to learn, will choose to yield.
 
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