BE Sounding Board Question.

[PaddyMonty]

This has been asked of the members of the BE sounding board. We were also asked to forward on to friends that may have a view.

So as we are all one big happy family here I thought I'd ask you orrible lot and then make sure your comments get back to the appropriate person.

Question........
We would be interested to receive your views on an idea currently being considered by the Sport Committee & which has also been discussed with a number of Organisers at the recent regional meetings. (This is not a rule change, merely an idea that we wish to explore further.)

The proposal is whether or not Members would enter sections without prize money or prizes but with a reduced entry fee. Would this be of interest to you as a competitor/owner? What do you think would be the pros & cons etc?
.....................................................

Your thoughts?

 

[bounce]

As a newcomer to eventing I would definitely be interested in a lower entry fee in a section without prizes. I am currently very unlikely to get a decent placing and I don't compete to win prizes, I compete to improve myself and my pony and a feeling of achievement.

Even if I was competitive and likely to be in the top 5 of a section I would be happier with the placing than a rosette and a prize.

 

[smiffyimp]

From an owners point of view this would be of interest. Anything to cut the bills! Especially when the prize money isnt all that. (If we're ever on track for the Rolex Grand Slam, Ill take that back)

 

[smurf]

I think it would be good as it would hopefully encourage more organisers to ut on more open sections, PNP and IN classes as it would now be viable to run them even if numbers were very small as just cost of rosettes and not prize money.

More open sections = less pot hunters ;-)

 

[HotToTrot]

Yes because I never win anything! BUT. Would this not skew results? If you offered up a prizeless section and a prizefull one, then all of the "I never win anythings" would enter the prizeless section and then the top ten in that section would get "placed". Competition wld be far stronger in the section with prizes, because you would not have the random allocation of competitors to sections. How does it work.....? You'd effectively be offering an easy section, no?

 

[meardsall_millie]

No I wouldn't. Not that I particularly win a lot or that the prizes are generally that brilliant if I do, but the thought of getting 'something' if we're placed is always nice.

Besides, if lots of sections became 'prizeless' there would be an awful lot of redundancies in the dandy brush manufacturing world!

 

[SpottedCat]

I don't think the reduction they are proposing to offer is great enough for it to be worthwhile. We are talking circa £5-£10. In the grand scheme of a day out eventing, that's chicken feed. For me to be interested they'd need to be talking about taking 1/3 to 1/2 off the entry fee, which I know they are not

It also reinforces BEs aspiration to have a 2-tier sport - pros would enter the with prizes sections and amateurs would not. That isn't why I event, I like being up against the pros.

 

[VRIN]

Agree- question should include reduction in entry fee that they have in mind- five pounds is insignificant in total cost

 

[Rosiefan]

Don't think I'd be interested as an owner - we wouldn't be going BE if there was no chance whatsoever of a placing. Well, maybe the first couple of times but after that .....
Don't like the idea of a 2 tier system either.

 

[PaddyMonty]

Interesting comments on both sides.
Have to agree that reduction would have to be more than £10 to interest me.

Any more comments?
I would have thought this proposal if it were accepted would significantly change the feel of eventing?

 

[Horsemad12]

I don't think the reduction they are proposing to offer is great enough for it to be worthwhile. We are talking circa £5-£10. In the grand scheme of a day out eventing, that's chicken feed. For me to be interested they'd need to be talking about taking 1/3 to 1/2 off the entry fee, which I know they are not

It also reinforces BEs aspiration to have a 2-tier sport - pros would enter the with prizes sections and amateurs would not. That isn't why I event, I like being up against the pros.

I agree with this.

 

[Saratoga]

Also agree with SC, for me it would depend on how reduced the entry fee actually was.

 

[SpottedCat]

Quite frankly yet again I think BE are focussing on the wrong thing and dressing it up as 'well we tried to reduce entry fees'.

Quite when Amanda Ratcliffe is going to start doing her job and representing grass roots riders - which is after all the manifesto she was elected on - remains to be seen.

If BE put as much effort into dealing with the unfair withdrawal/refund issue as they did to thinking up these schemes which only really benefit organisers, they'd have a much happier grass roots membership.

 

[LEC]

Actually they were only talking about £2.50 for BE90/100!!

I said it would take 10% to interest me minimum.

I also said that maybe they could look into the quality of prizes offered as felt raiding the cleaning cupboard for liquid hand wash did not constitute a prize.

 

[zxp]

Whilst - in theory - it may sound nice (who wouldn't like cheaper fees?!) I dont think this idea would work. Because, whilst there is a thrill to eventing itself, most people (IMO) who do it are inherently very competitive. Otherwise we would be doing a cheaper/safer/less competitive sport. And part that drives the competitive nature is prizes (even if the chances of winning one is very, very, very slim! ;-) ).

Also with reductions of less than 10% (much less in many cases), I think most people wouldn't enter and enter the prizes section - just in case they won!

In addition, I think it would change the competitive nature of it. You would get more amateurs doing these (pro's owners would pay the extra few pound. What's an extra few ££ when you are running a horse with a pro. Plus owners love prizes. Even little ones!!), and it would de-value the section and create a two tiered system. It would be, instead of moving your horse "up a level" you would move it into the "prize section" if you felt confident of its performance.

So sorry - whilst I think anything to make the sport cheaper is good, this is not something I would buy into and would still do the "prized" section, and I think many others would too... especially with such meagre reductions.

 

[Saratoga]

Quite frankly yet again I think BE are focussing on the wrong thing and dressing it up as 'well we tried to reduce entry fees'.

Quite when Amanda Ratcliffe is going to start doing her job and representing grass roots riders - which is after all the manifesto she was elected on - remains to be seen.

If BE put as much effort into dealing with the unfair withdrawal/refund issue as they did to thinking up these schemes which only really benefit organisers, they'd have a much happier grass roots membership.

Need a :clap: icon!

 

[Lucyad]

No point in the proposal if a parallel class was running with prizes - as said by others, that would create a two tier system. However I think that running the lower classes without prizes is fair enough if this would cut costs for grass roots riders - the pro's would not be entering the lower classes for prizes, but to bring on young horses - the size of lower level's prizes is very low anyway (and the entry costs prohibitive to many, including me).

 

[zxp]

No point in the proposal if a parallel class was running with prizes - as said by others, that would create a two tier system. However I think that running the lower classes without prizes is fair enough if this would cut costs for grass roots riders - the pro's would not be entering the lower classes for prizes, but to bring on young horses - the size of lower level's prizes is very low anyway (and the entry costs prohibitive to many, including me).

Yes, but still, a reduction of a few % will not make me happy to forfiet prizes. I like the idea of prizes (even if I dont win any!). They are not proposing a drastic price cut. Dont get me wrong, hand soap isnt my idea of a great "prize" eek but it is nice to get SOMETHING!

 

[charlimouse]

TBH I am completely against it, regardless of how much money may be saved. All it would do is to created a two tiered system at each level, as the people who thought they had no chance of being placed would go in the section without prizes, whilst those confident they have a chance would go in the section with prizes. Therefore making the section with prizes a much higher standard.

Also I don't know about anybody else but I need the competition. I know I don't ride the same if I am HC (which whilst is slightly different, essentially there is no financial incentive), as I do when I have a chance of a prize. I take extra pulls XC, if I have a SJ down what does it matter? And if my dressage is poor at least there was no chance of a prize anyway. I need the prize to focus on (small minded as that sounds!), and no matter how rubbish the prize it still is nice to get one!

 

[glencol370]

I have always appreciated some money back, I think it would be better to go more like BSJA where they pay 1 in 4 starters and say if there where 17 starters they have to pay 5th too. BE decided to pay 1 in 6 and give more to the top prize money winners depending on which scale was used, now a days they hardly use scale 1. A few lower prize money down the line would help. I was looking at an old print out of mine from 1999 and 4th in a novice paid £82 and winning an Intermediate £125. Not sure what the entries were back then. Certainly no start fee or abandonment fee.

 

[Honey08]

I've only been placed twice in recent years at BE 90. For one I got nothing (9th place out of 50) and for a 6th I got a £10 voucher for a stall that sold nothing under £40! The prizes don't tempt me to compete at all. I'm more happy with a nice BE rosette and a feeling of achievement.

I think BS do a much better job with prizes and points etc.

 

[star]

not interesting for me. I aim to get placed and want to win prizes if they're on offer. Cant see how you'd make it fair. Anyone who felt they didn't have a chance would enter the prizeless sections and if top 10% still qualifying for Regionals then would most likely be easier to be top 10% in a prizeless section than one with prizes. You'll end up with pothunting of a whole different kind!

 

[popsdosh]

Quite frankly yet again I think BE are focussing on the wrong thing and dressing it up as 'well we tried to reduce entry fees'.

Quite when Amanda Ratcliffe is going to start doing her job and representing grass roots riders - which is after all the manifesto she was elected on - remains to be seen.

If BE put as much effort into dealing with the unfair withdrawal/refund issue as they did to thinking up these schemes which only really benefit organisers, they'd have a much happier grass roots membership.

Thats exactly what I put in my reply to the question ,they are pandering to the organisers again.
I will be surprised if the reduction is £5 lets face what was the prize money and divide it by 40 in a section ,and also be sure the event will probably end up better off.
I just wonder why all of a sudden BE have resurrected the sounding board ,I would suggest your views are better put via ERA were they will be listened to collectively rather than a few sympathetic views taken from the whole supposedly representing the membership mass.Oh I am feeling cynical tonight !!!!

 

[Santa_Claus]

for what at max would be a £5 reduction not a chance. Granted I have a fairly decent record but have only had 3 top 6 placings that gave me a prize, one was paultry and not worth the supposed minimum it should have been in value and was also pretty useless to me and infact now a year later is still unused, the other was much better and will be used and the third was money. both the prizes in kind were won in sponsored sections as well which shocked me! The money was ironically from a non sponsored section!

The saving is as Lec says going to be £2.50 ish, how annoyed would you be to have forfeitted the right to win a prize to then win or get a top 6 place. I know I would be annoyed and all for the sake of £2.50-£5!!!

 

[vic h]

I would deffinatly be interested in reduced entry money and no prize money, a rossette to 10th place is always nice but the prizes in kind and prize money at the lower levels don't cover entry fees so it is more viable to save money at every event even if you are not placed. In the north west the prize money is very low, and the prizes in kind I have won have included socks, ice-blue and a hat bag, all under the value of £10, which is less than the prize money at unaffiliated SJ so it would make much more sense to offer reduced entry fees if the prize money isn't a reasonable amount (eg £200 as at Beckwithshaw) it would have to be a larger sum than £2.50 though!

 

[popsdosh]

Quite when Amanda Ratcliffe is going to start doing her job and representing grass roots riders - which is after all the manifesto she was elected on - remains to be seen.

Well here is another thought in business when somebody you dont want elected gets elected to the board it is a common used tactic to give them the top job as they soon come round to your way of thinking and they also get the blame for the things that are wrong.The chairman has very little power really unless the vote is evenly split and the power still rests ultimately with the executive members.

 

[SpruceRI]

How much is the average prize fund per section at a BE90/100?

I think the winner only gets £34 if it's the 'lower level' prize money which is pretty rubbish when you think that your entry is usually at least double that..... I thought the total cash prizes on average amounted to £100 which is nothing in relation to the £3000 odd the organiser earns per section.

Do cash prizes go down the line 1 in every 6 competitors? I don't think it goes much beyond 3rd does it? Prizes in kind however used to go to 6th which was better.

If the organisers offered £34 off the entry fee then I'd agree to it!

£2.50 though - tchhhhh! Rubbish!

 

[MrsMozart]

No. As an owner, and as a potential sponsor.

I'll be looking at BE and how it spends its money with a keen eye. Sponsors have to pay a stupid amount of money to be allowed to sponsor someone (and we're talking grass roots here). I will be interested to see what we get for our money, especially as, as far as I'm aware, BD and BS do not have the same requirement.