Behaviourist Advice Appreciated (FOOD AGGRESSION)

[ScoobyDoo98]

Hello everyone. Im looking for some advice regarding how to correct behaviour or whether the method im using is making things worse for my boy.

I've got him from the gypsies he came to me at only 4 months old and was ripped from him mum before his 4 hour journey to me. He is my first horse and we've been pretty good together up until now.

From day 1 he has been food aggressive, the first bucket of feed he got he was hoping around. We sorted that out by having the food already in the stable for him so he got to know that once he settled , stands and waits to have his headcollar off he would be able to enjoy his feed in peace, we've had no issues since then and we had gotten to the point i can move all around him touch him etc while he eats and hes completely fine. Now lately he's been pinning his ears around his hay. I usually ignore it, however when hes blocking the doorway in the stable and I need to ask him to move his hindquarters over he gets a right strop on. He pins the ears, swishes the tail and gets so grumpy but reluctantly does as I've asked. Now ive left it at that for now but I'm wondering if I should be correcting the ear pinning. Hes never been good with treats, so hes never gotten them. Hes fine with his bucket feed as it only takes him 30 seconds to eat (its just a balancer) so hes used to that routine.

The recent issue is that hes started getting hay twice a day. Hes on a diet so he has a smallish double haynet for when he comes in and then gets a larger soaked haynet thrown in for him by a friend on the evening. Now the first haynet does last until his main soaked net. I was told he usually snakes his head at this girl when she goes in to hang the haynet. Doesnt follow through but gets arsey. Last night he reared up while she was hanging the haynet up and she felt threatened and smacked him on the nose. Im obviously not happy about that but he could've hurt her. For now my solution is to have a Hayring outside the stable so it can be thrown over the door but this doesn't change the core problem. I want to figure out how to correct this.

The method ive been using more recently is shooing him to the back of the stable and waiting until he puts his ears forward for him to be allowed to come back to his haynet. Ive been moving his hind quarters as I should be able to ask him to move around in his stable should I need to.
Big question is how would you go about this? I dont know if my method is only making things worse or if I should just persevere. I want the best for him and I want to work through it.
He is already quite a grumpy boy, not to me or people he likes, but really hates people going near him that usually have no business with him. Pulls a face and if they pet him anywhere other than the neck he will get agitated.
I've had him since 4months old so most of his history is known. Hes 3 in April. Hes a cob if that helps! Thanks guys. I appreciate the help. Hes staying with me for life if I can help it but I worry incase I ever really do need to find him a home and what kind of things he would have to go through if I dont get this sorted now!

 

[Equi]

Find a herd to turn him out into for a year. There is no need for such a young horse to be pampered. He will never gain manners from a human, he needs a horse to tell him whats what.

 

[Tally05]

What equi said. He needs time to mature under the guidance of other horses who won't take his cr*p x

 

[Gingerwitch]

I think it's all very sad how on earth do you think he understands he needs to put his ears forward to get his hay ?. Put head collar on tie up. Put hay in a d leave the poor sod alone or turn him out and let him learn. He only knows he is hungry he sees someone coming with his hay.... He wants it and to have a loose hungry horse waiting patiently whilst someone ties a bet up is asking for trouble as you are blocking him from his food source, even the best behaved horse could be a pain in this situation.

 

[Trouper]

So he's 2 and a half now and you have had him since he was 4 months old?? Has been stabled in his routine for most of that time?

 

[dorsetladette]

Terrible 2's!!! He's going through his stroppy boundary pushing teenager stage.

Is he gelded?

 

[Gingerwitch]

So he's 2 and a half now and you have had him since he was 4 months old?? Has been stabled in his routine for most of that time?

! What is he turned out.with during the day ? How long is he out ? Please tell me he has friends and is not in a postage stamp field

 

[ScoobyDoo98]

! What is he turned out.with during the day ? How long is he out ? Please tell me he has friends and is not in a postage stamp field

Hes always been turned out with those his own age plus a large mix of older horses. Hes actually brilliant with other horses and grooms them all! I appreciate what you say, but he is getting somewhat worse and I don't want him to develop a bad habit. Yes he knows to put his ears forward and then he comes in to get his hay. Rather, I wait for him to stop pinning his ears because he's essentially telling me to f*** off lol. Once hes nice he can go straight back to munching and is left alone. If he can't wait for his haynet to be hung up without threatening people then thats a recipe for disaster.

 

[ScoobyDoo98]

Terrible 2's!!! He's going through his stroppy boundary pushing teenager stage.

Is he gelded?

Hes been gelded since 11 months thankfully! Yes , hes a grumpy buggar but atleast hes a lovebug sometimes.

 

[ScoobyDoo98]

So he's 2 and a half now and you have had him since he was 4 months old?? Has been stabled in his routine for most of that time?

Hes been in of a night out of a day through winter and has 24/7 turnout the rest of the year .

 

[ScoobyDoo98]

Find a herd to turn him out into for a year. There is no need for such a young horse to be pampered. He will never gain manners from a human, he needs a horse to tell him whats what.

Hes actually incredibly well behaved with other horses. Hes already been a companion to a few and grooms all of the horses in the field, even the loner/grumpy ones. He is brilliant in every other way and its easier said than done to fine those kinds of facilities. He only lives in half the day in winter and goes out 24/7 the rest of the year with a mixed herd and a bunch of his youngster friends.

 

[dorsetladette]

Hes been gelded since 11 months thankfully! Yes , hes a grumpy buggar but atleast hes a lovebug sometimes.

I'd be tempted to chuck him out on youngstock livery for the winter to let him mature and use up all that extra energy being a baby horse. Bring him back in the spring/summer ready to start ground work and be broken in the summer/autumn. But, be ready to keep that busy brain occupied.

At the moment all he has to think about is where his next feed/haynet is coming from. Growing brains are full of mischief. Let that mischief be expelled in a herd where he needs to think about where he sits in the pecking order.

 

[meleeka]

I think you need to start by getting him to back up on command rather than just shooing him to the back of his stable (thats just creating more drama around food) Do this when there isn’t any food around using clicker training or treats. I only have to touch mine on the chest and say “back” and he does it happily and instantly. Cobs learn quickly because they are so food orientated. In the meantime either tie him up while you hang haynet, or put a small handful away from the door so he’s busy with that while you hang the net. Is he the same whether it’s a small hole or not? Mine gets very grumpy over his small haynet, so he’s given a small normal one to satisfy his perceived hunger alongside his small holed net.

 

[ScoobyDoo98]

I think you need to start by getting him to back up on command rather than just shooing him to the back of his stable (thats just creating more drama around food) Do this when there isn’t any food around using clicker training or treats. Cobs learn quickly because they are so food orientated. In the meantime either tie him up while you hang haynet, or put a small handful away from the door so he’s busy with that while you hang the net. Is he the same whether it’s a small hole or not? Mine gets very grumpy over his small haynet, so he’s given a small normal one to satisfy his perceived hunger alongside his small holed net.

Hes always done the backing up thing, hes actually great at it and does it when you point at his chest, he pulls a face though. We used this for any treats etc or when I walk in with the haynets.

 

[ScoobyDoo98]

I'd be tempted to chuck him out on youngstock livery for the winter to let him mature and use up all that extra energy being a baby horse. Bring him back in the spring/summer ready to start ground work and be broken in the summer/autumn. But, be ready to keep that busy brain occupied.

At the moment all he has to think about is where his next feed/haynet is coming from. Growing brains are full of mischief. Let that mischief be expelled in a herd where he needs to think about where he sits in the pecking order.

He will be out again 24/7 once winter is over with. Its really hard to find youngsters livery! But I agree.

 

[dorsetladette]

He will be out again 24/7 once winter is over with. Its really hard to find youngsters livery! But I agree.

Ring round a few local studs. They will have youngstock herds and as yours is gelded could run out with either filly's or colts.

I assume from where he came from he is a coloured cob? you could have a look at the CHAPS stud list and see if there are any coloured studs near you. Going forward it could be useful to have that sort of contact in your arsenal for support and advice.

I've just bought a colt foal from a lovely stud who I intend to keep in touch with. I've had ponies (mostly stallions) all my life and grew up with my parents breeding so have a fair knowledge of what I'm doing, but its always nice to have guidance from someone who does it all the time. Even if your just confirming your own thoughts.

 

[Trouper]

I'd be tempted to chuck him out on youngstock livery for the winter to let him mature and use up all that extra energy being a baby horse. Bring him back in the spring/summer ready to start ground work and be broken in the summer/autumn. But, be ready to keep that busy brain occupied.

At the moment all he has to think about is where his next feed/haynet is coming from. Growing brains are full of mischief. Let that mischief be expelled in a herd where he needs to think about where he sits in the pecking order.

I think this is your answer and good advice.

 

[Fred66]

If all he is doing is pulling a face but not barging or offering to bite or kick then to be honest I can’t see the problem.
However it is always safest to tie them when you are in the stable with them.
So go in head collar on, tie up and then bring in and tie up the haynet, then untie and remove haynet.

 

[Tarragon]

I am so glad that this thread has sorted itself out. Misunderstandings clarified and assumptions explained; relevant and pertinent advice can be given

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Why on earth is a 3 yr old who has the opportunity to use plenty of energy playing with others on a diet. Give him ad lib hay so that he doesn't feel the need to be 'aggressive' around people and get somebody experienced to help you.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Why on earth is a 3 yr old who has the opportunity to use plenty of energy playing with others on a diet. Give him ad lib hay so that he doesn't feel the need to be 'aggressive' around people and get somebody experienced to help you.

This is a bit harsh it sounds like she is doing her best by him and his management is not terrible, I appreciate what your saying makes sense but sometimes it's how you say it that makes all the difference.

 

[ScoobyDoo98]

Why on earth is a 3 yr old who has the opportunity to use plenty of energy playing with others on a diet. Give him ad lib hay so that he doesn't feel the need to be 'aggressive' around people and get somebody experienced to help you.

He is a cob and carries weight. He doesnt need that extra weight on his bones and he quite enjoys his soaked hay and gets as much as he likes of it plus a balancer

 

[ester]

Has this started since he was on a diet? ie is he hungry and therefore more possessive about his food.

He doesn't sound very happy generally given his reaction around people.

 

[ScoobyDoo98]

Has this started since he was on a diet? ie is he hungry and therefore more possessive about his food.

He doesn't sound very happy generally given his reaction around people.

Yep, he gets adlib but 80% of what he gets is soaked and the other 20/% is double netted.

 

[Auslander]

I think it's all very sad how on earth do you think he understands he needs to put his ears forward to get his hay ?. Put head collar on tie up. Put hay in a d leave the poor sod alone or turn him out and let him learn. He only knows he is hungry he sees someone coming with his hay.... He wants it and to have a loose hungry horse waiting patiently whilst someone ties a bet up is asking for trouble as you are blocking him from his food source, even the best behaved horse could be a pain in this situation.

He may not understand that he needs to put his ears forward, but he sure as hell need to learn that he doesn't get the goodies if he pins his ears at people!
All my lot know that good things happen quickly if they are polite, and take forever if they are pushy, rude or violent. None of mine get tied up so that I can feed them/put hay in - they know the back command and they know not to grab until I've stepped away. If they are polite, I@m in and out in a flash and if not, they have to wait til they're polite. As soon as I'm done, I leave them to it, and don't disturb them while they are eating.

 

[ScoobyDoo98]

He may not understand that he needs to put his ears forward, but he sure as hell need to learn that he doesn't get the goodies if he pins his ears at people!
All my lot know that good things happen quickly if they are polite, and take forever if they are pushy, rude or violent. None of mine get tied up so that I can feed them/put hay in - they know the back command and they know not to grab until I've stepped away. If they are polite, I@m in and out in a flash and if not, they have to wait til they're polite. As soon as I'm done, I leave them to it, and don't disturb them while they are eating.

Thank you ! This is kinda what I've been doing, I just wondered if there was anything else to do. If he stands across the door and I need to get past it would be nice to ask him to move over without getting his bitch face lol.

 

[Auslander]

Thank you ! This is kinda what I've been doing, I just wondered if there was anything else to do. If he stands across the door and I need to get past it would be nice to ask him to move over without getting his bitch face lol.

I'm probably not the best person to advise, as I give them a bloody good prod in the chest and growl at them if they don't move over when asked!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

He is a cob and carries weight. He doesnt need that extra weight on his bones and he quite enjoys his soaked hay and gets as much as he likes of it plus a balancer

But at 3 he should be putting his energy into growing. Are you still giving him a bucket feed? If so, I would cut that out before restricting hay and I certainly wouldn't give a youngster double netted hay, goodness knows what damage that will do to his muscles/skeleton.

 

[ScoobyDoo98]

But at 3 he should be putting his energy into growing. Are you still giving him a bucket feed? If so, I would cut that out before restricting hay and I certainly wouldn't give a youngster double netted hay, goodness knows what damage that will do to his muscles/skeleton.

He gets only a very condensed balancer, hay isn't restricted, only has the calorific value lowered.

 

[Caol Ila]

I don't know if you've worked on this, but I teach the horse how to back from a voice command and/or light touch, yield the hindquarters, yield the shoulders, and stand when asked. Basic groundwork, pretty much. Obviously you teach this stuff in a low stress situation, but once the responses to the cues are ingrained and you are consistent with your expectations and your cues (this is the key part... I wish I had a pound for every time I saw someone flapping at a horse, yelling "stand!" or "no!"while spectacularly failing at giving the horse any comprehensible direction) the horse will back up or move over, even if he really doesn't want to.