Being ripped off at shows?....(SERIOUS MESSAGE)

[Toby_Zaphod]

At Affiliated BS shows every competitor has to pay for First Aid Cover, minimum £1 very often more. No one can really mind IF they are getting the cover however some venues have been pocketing thousands of pounds for years. They charge for cover & have a few of their staff with a pathetic first aid certificate. These staff members are very often employed in other parts of the show ground & no where near the jumping rings so the alleged first aid cover is really non existant! These staff don't even have access to any first aid equipment.

I & others have written to BS several times regarding the lack of cover at various shows, one in particular being a constant offender & it appears that at long last they have taken notice & the rules are being changed:

This is lifted from their rule amendment page:-

"From 1st October 2011 Shows will only be permitted to charge British Showjumping members for medical cover at affiliated Shows, if qualified external medical providers with appropriate insurance cover are used."

I urge all people attending BS affiliated shows after this date to ensure that there are proper First Aiders on site so that immediate & quality care can be given when riders have falls. This is potentially a very dangerous sport & quick, correct, immediate care can mean the difference between a full recovery & the potential to be permanently injured.

Sorry to preach but anything that can make our sport safer has to be supported. Thanks for reading.

 

[Baggybreeches]

I have always been aware of this, and if the first aid was provided by the centre I have always queried the charge, although TBF most people by us now use the same team of first aiders who are excellent.
Good though that it is been made official.

 

[idx]

Great result - a sensible stance by BS.

 

[dieseldog]

Well Done, I used to think it was a joke charging us for Medical cover, when there was no one there to provide it.

The one time I did have a serious accident, there was a proper external medical person, which I had paid for, however he could do nothing for me as I had broken my arm. He couldn't give me drugs or help at all, the ladies of the collecting ring and from the office were more use.

So if you do feel the need to use the medical cover you've paid for make sure you knock yourself out or have a fit or something, don't break a bone as you still have to lie in the middle of the arena in agony waiting for the proper paramedic to turn up.

 

[Llanali]

I have to say, I'm going to name and shame. Onley equestrian complex- I'm thinking of you! I don't begrudge paying FA but I want to see it!!!

When I fall off, I do not expect to lay in the arena, get up un assisted and be told to ' find the office, XXXX is the first aider'

I did not pay £3 to find my own medical assistance from someone with a paper slip they earnt 18 mths ago on an afternoon course!!

And yes, the last is a sweeping generalisation- I have said piece of paper too lol

 

[Llanali]

So good on those of you who campaigned, and thank you BS.

(phone decided I was done already)

 

[wonkey_donkey]

Excellent result

 

[cazzy]

As a show organiser I totally agree with the BS Ruling. We have for many years used an external company with 'proper qualified paramedics' who are not just first aiders!
Our paramedics all carry gas and air / pain relief. Believe me, it can make all the difference if you have to wait 15/20 minutes for an ambulance with a patient on the ground with a broken leg.
We actually surveyed most of our competitors this year and asked them about paramedic cover/level of charges - nearly all of them said don't mind paying it if proper paramedics - fair enough comment I agree.
The BS did bring a ruling in last year that stated that if shows charged paramedic cover than that person could solely only do that position ie: not be a pole picker, collecting ring steward, secretary as well etc.
Show centres now have to have on display a copy of the insurance certificate also if cover provided by an external company - you'd be amazed how many of these outside companies don't have insurance!!

 

[blue2262]

So now expect to pay considerably more for the first aid cover. Show centres/ organisers are not making a fortune and external first aiders are not usually volunteers.
Each indiviual rider runs exactly the same risk every time they ride, do the have qualified paramedics on hand when they school or hack?

 

[tinap]

We regularly attend a venue that prides itself in not charging for first aid........until its a premier weekend it seems!! We went for 2 classes on 1 day (couldn't go the other 2 days) & were charged a whopping £6!!!! It cost me £36 for 2 classes that day!!! :-0

 

[Blackwijet]

also the venues that allow "first aiders" rather than a proper medical team to be on site need to be careful as some the first aiders may have obtained their first aid training and certificate at their place of work and could only have a First Aid at Work Certificate. they are then not covered to provide first aid assistance at a public event and if they make a mistake could find themselves in trouble without any legal back up.

 

[EventingMum]

This is good news. A number of years a number of years ago my son broke this arm in two places jumping at an affiliated show about 3 hours from home. He was in a lot of pain and so we asked for the first aider. The organisers were very vague about who the first aider was that day and despite our enquiries no one came forward. We then asked for an ice pack as his arm was swelling (at this point we were unaware of the severity of the injury) only to be told there wasn’t any available. At this point we admitted defeat and as we struggle to get coherent directions to the nearest hospital drove to one nearer home.

The owner he was riding for had paid £3 per pony for medical cover and when he was at the centre next with his own daughter he asked if they would like details for their accident book now the extent of the injury was known - this unsurprisingly was declined. This incident was bad enough but I shudder to think what would have happened with a more serious injury.

 

[diggerbez]

i don't mind paying a bit more if there is proper cover. i do object to paying when its someone who has done a crappy half day course. i have full outdoor first aid and outdoor first aid but still wouldn't feel happy dealing with an equestrian accident if it was serious.....

 

[Tinks81]

The other thing they do talking from an owner point of view is that they charge FA to everyone meaning the rider has been covered 3 or 4 times - now that is really annoying make sure you check if your rider has already paid as they dont tell you x

 

[stencilface]

i don't mind paying a bit more if there is proper cover. i do object to paying when its someone who has done a crappy half day course. i have full outdoor first aid and outdoor first aid but still wouldn't feel happy dealing with an equestrian accident if it was serious.....

I think thats it isn't it. Many of us on here (inc me) have done first aid courses, but first aid is exactly what we've done them for, to help in an emergency situation. Not in a situation where injuries are more likely like at a horse event, where you would want someone who has continous experience of injuries so can update and keep their skills fresh. Not someone who managed to 'resuscitate' a plastic dummy in a conference room a year ago

I think most venues I pay this to, have either paramedic or St John's there - hopefully the latter are also good?

 

[kerilli]

good to hear that BS is taking it seriously. i'd rather pay a bit more and know that a qualified, properly equipped first aider will be with me quickly if necessary. and with my horse of course, if necessary...
this, fortunately, is something that BE is very very good about. i'm not sure whether the people who plump for the unaff ODEs realise that this is one of the places their money goes when they pay for BE reg/entries/start fees etc.

 

[SpottedCat]

good to hear that BS is taking it seriously. i'd rather pay a bit more and know that a qualified, properly equipped first aider will be with me quickly if necessary. and with my horse of course, if necessary...
this, fortunately, is something that BE is very very good about. i'm not sure whether the people who plump for the unaff ODEs realise that this is one of the places their money goes when they pay for BE reg/entries/start fees etc.

If you do one run by a RC then they have to have a paramedic in a 4x4 vehicle on duty. It's in the RC rules that one must be present for all XC competitions. St John ambulance or First Aid Certificate isn't enough.

 

[Mince Pie]

If you do one run by a RC then they have to have a paramedic in a 4x4 vehicle on duty. It's in the RC rules that one must be present for all XC competitions. St John ambulance or First Aid Certificate isn't enough.

Agree with that, my RC always has a proper FA'er/paramedic at it's events, including the beginner mock hunts, and speaking from experience they have all been pretty good and have pain relief on site.

 

[FigJam]

Can I just add that just because you are paying for "proper" first aid cover, doesn't mean it's better! My RC paid for "proper" first aid cover at a training event last year and it was shambolic- they turned up late, got lost, only 3 out of the 4 agreed were there (and one brought a kid along with them!), were completely disinterested in what was going on (eg weren't watching/paying attention) and about as useful as a chocolate teapot!

Thankfully we had no major incidents, but we decided that they absolutely weren't worth the cost/hassle and used our own first aid qualified members this year for the same event- who were at least interested and had a clue about what was going on as well as having first aid qualifications.

These were first aiders rather than paramedics though and I am sure we were just unlucky, but external does not always equal better!

 

[little_flea]

HOWEVER, competition centres are now beginning to charge for something called "Ringside Assistance" instead... this means less liability for injuries/emergencies, and the charge can be seen to cover things such as opening closing doors to arena, picking up poles etc. These types of fees won't be going away.

It is really expensive to compete and us competitors feel ripped off - but remember that perhaps surprisingly, show organisers often make very very little money of shows, especially affiliated ones due to all the fees they have to pay. If it was easy to make money out of putting on show jumping competitions big centres like Towerlands would never have closed, as an example. Running costs for shows are huge.

 

[cazzy]

Which show centre is charing 'Ringside Assistance' - this one is new to me.
Entry Fees cover judges, collecting ring stewards, pole pickers, course builders, secretary costs etc. At our shows our First Aid Fee is purely that....some shows we have don't cover the cost of the paramedic but take bad with the good so over the year it levels out. Would still rather have my experienced paramedic with all the equipment and expertise to deal with an emergency anyday over first aiders and St. Johns (no disrespect to St. Johns - they do a great job but not good enough for this type of event in my opinion).
Definitely one of those situations where you don't appreciate it till you need it!
Out of interest what do you all consider a reasonable amount for first aid....our is £4 per rider per day or cheaper if a 4 day show.

 

[cazzy]

The other thing they do talking from an owner point of view is that they charge FA to everyone meaning the rider has been covered 3 or 4 times - now that is really annoying make sure you check if your rider has already paid as they dont tell you x

LOL, know who you are talking about...on the ball show secretaries would know their riders and should check this before you pay. If you as an owner are in doubt don't pay it to start with and make a note on entry form you will pay on day if not paid.

 

[Rambo]

Caz, having experienced your medical first hand on a couple of occasions i am more than happy with the standard of cover provided. To a one (or occasionally two) horse competitor who competes once or twice a month at most then i don't think it makes a huge difference whether the charge is £3 per day or £4. Obviously we would all prefer less but it isn't going to stop us competing. The key is, you and most of the other venues in our area now have dedicated paramedics on-site and highly visible at events.

 

[cazzy]

I think the most important part of the new BS rule re paramedic cover is that the external company have to have medical insurance and a copy of this displayed in the secretary's office - this is where a lot of the paramedics that show centres employ will fall down as private paramedics/individuals they don't have insurance.

 

[IANB]

I dont think comeditors have a clue how much decent first aid costs show organisers nowdays, really annoys me when we attend shows and pay for cover which is sub standard, in this day and age of health and safety which has now gone mad , it is imperative to have properly qualified medical staff that are reliable and on the ball, they must be ringside and watching the competition not sat fast asleep in there ambulance which i have witnessed on occasions. Totally agrree with Rambo and Cazzy , Kerrils point regarding BE is also totally true, 2 doctors, enhanced amulance with paramedics plus back up crews costs a fortune, there is not an unaffiliated event in the country that i know off that has those medics on site, hence the added cost for BE.
We make a point of checking all of our medical staffs certificates and qualifications including CPC and insurances.

 

[SpottedCat]

I had two paramedics in a 4x4 for a RC event I ran. Cost in the region of £350. The first aid fee for competitors did not cover it.

 

[Pebble101]

there is not an unaffiliated event in the country that i know off that has those medics on site, hence the added cost for BE.
.

I jump judged earlier this year at an unaffiliated event that had Ambulance, vet and horse ambulance (he spent about an hour talking to me) so that is a bit of an unfair statement to make.

 

[SpruceRI]

A couple of years back I attended an indoor showing show - doing in-hand, where the entry for one class was £12, plus £3 for First Aid (none there there that I could see) and £3 for 'Arena party'??

Flippin rip off, for the judge to glance over us, and her 8yr old assistant to hand out the rosettes! We had to open our own gate to get out of said arena!

Needless to say, I didn't return!

 

[keysoe]

I dont think comeditors have a clue how much decent first aid costs show organisers nowdays, really annoys me when we attend shows and pay for cover which is sub standard, in this day and age of health and safety which has now gone mad , it is imperative to have properly qualified medical staff that are reliable and on the ball, they must be ringside and watching the competition not sat fast asleep in there ambulance which i have witnessed on occasions. Totally agrree with Rambo and Cazzy , Kerrils point regarding BE is also totally true, 2 doctors, enhanced amulance with paramedics plus back up crews costs a fortune, there is not an unaffiliated event in the country that i know off that has those medics on site, hence the added cost for BE.
We make a point of checking all of our medical staffs certificates and qualifications including CPC and insurances.

I do find some of the BE requirement excessive. We run BD without paramedics, and BS without paramedics AND doctors on site. Fair enough to have paramedics / doctor for XC, but it is a tad excessive for dressage.

Am a little amused by people thinking they are ripped off when they pay £3 per rider for paramedic cover. This cost reduces the loss the venue makes on first aid, rather than filling their boots with free money

 

[MissTyc]

Am a little amused by people thinking they are ripped off when they pay £3 per rider for paramedic cover.

I think people feel ripped off when they pay it but there's no paramedic there!
... I think in my area we are fairly lucky both affiliated and unaffiliated as seems to be a good supply or paramedics available and private first aiders that actually know what they're doing (perk of a seaside town - lots of life guards available in the low season!)