Belated louisem lesson report and couple of pics from jumping last sunday

E

ecrozier

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 October 2006
Messages
6,173
Visit site
Hello all

Meant to do this last week but never got round to it! I went to the Ripely lesson last week - and what a lovely venue! Such a beautiful yard, and very welcoming people. Thanks again to Scarlett for organising.

We were in group 'b' so 90cm or thereabouts. We did a similar exercise to many other groups with three jumps on short 3 stride distances down the centre line, then across either long diagonal two fences on a 5 stride distance.

Suffice to say Roo was not at his most compliant that day - I have started him on the equifeast cool calm and collected now and I must say a week in he SEEMS to be a reformed character already, had a fab lesson on the flat yesterday.

But even at his stroppy best last week, I do have to remind myself that a year ago we wouldn't even have maintained canter down the long side of a 60m school and certainly couldn't have turned a corner and cantered back along the centre line ;) so things are improving albeit more slowly than they would if he was with a more competant rider!

Louise was very encouraging and basically reinforced that actually Roo is now easily old/strong/capable enough (almost 6) to knuckle down and do some proper work and I need to adjust my mindset to ask more of him and be more insistent if he disagrees - he was naughty towards the end - would happily go down the line of fences on his terms (ie two long strides between each) but if I insisted on three short ones he would stop - very unlike him but the consensus was that he was simply having a tantrum! I'm also hopefully changing my saddle on Friday as both Louise and Tarrsteps agreed that the saddle isn't exactly doing me any favours, and its a bit of vicious circle in that he is a naturally careful horse, who because he is getting stroppy, is knocking some fences, which in turn makes him more stroppy, and part of the problem is that if I don't maintain impulsion right up to and over the fence, he then launches himself up and over it, and often the back of the saddle then hits me, which in turn makes him kick out behind....and often knock a fence - resulting in a strop!

Anyway, decided part of the action plan is to get out and jump him more regularly, as often we can go weeks without jumping, and I also need to go out and maybe sacrifice a few results to have a bit of an argument (and win that argument) round a course of fences as we only have space at home to jump a couple of fences). He had been a toad the week before at a local jumping show - leaping around doing his best tigger impressions around the ring, which to a degree he carried on at the lesson. Took him to rose cottage on sunday for their unaff/BS combined show, and he did the 80 and 90. Don't know if it was the effects of the lesson, the CCC or me having been rather stricter since last week, but he was MUCH more compliant in the warm up. The 80cm class I had a complete breakdown at the start and went in and rode at the first fence like a damp squib....and he just ground to a halt! I should know to ride at first fence with a bit more oomph as he has done this before, or rather I have, where I just totally fail to use my legs, but having not jumped in a comp for months, I forgot to ride it seems. Anyway gave myself a kick up the backside and him something similar, and set off again. Was a little rushed at times BUT he jumped everything clear. I totally messed up my line between last two fences and jumped final oxer on a ridiculous angle, he cleared it my miles but my foot caught the wing so that came down, but he didn't touch a pole. Was most cross with myself for letting him down twice :/
Anyway, went back in for the 90, and was so so pleased. The JO part looked big to me, but evidently not to Roo! We rolled a pole on a related distance on a dog leg, again I need to be a bit quicker to sit up and contain him a bit, but know exactly where I went wrong and the rest of the course seemed to go pretty well. Best result we have had in a proper 90cm class too.
I bought a couple of pictures, for FB use but they have watermarks so here are links rather than actual pictures:

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...62914584473_61205302_48937855_604572012_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...62913910823_61205302_48937847_777973351_n.jpg

Rest of the are at
http://www.waynejonesphotography.com/ag14653#photo
and keep going right for more of the 80
http://www.waynejonesphotography.com/ag14794
and again keep going right for the 90

Thanks for reading - Louise, when are you back :)?
 
Yay! i've been waiting for your lesson report.
Its funny as your boy sounds so slimilar to mine, a big boy who has his own ideas on how he wants to do things. I have stuggled to keep mine together and get him to work the way i want and the more i knuckled down the better he got but we had, still have, a few tantrums along the way! :D
Well done in your classes, sometimes the ones that feel better are often the ones that look worse on paper but mean the most. He looks really fab in the pics and i think your doing a really good job with him,
 
Thanks vam - he is a fab horse, far far to good for me really but as I ended up with him by default (he was a cheap buy as a 2 year old intended to hunt/do RC stuff with my OH!) I am not planning on giving him up any time soon :)
Maybe we will be in same group when Louise comes back!
 
ecrozier said:
Thanks :) Have you managed tyo get out eventing yet?
Click to expand...

No!! Entered into Great Tew next weekend, first one back in a while so hoping the Dinosaur concentrates....which is unlikely :rolleyes:

Have you got an idea of what saddle you might go for?
 
Have been waiting to hear how your lesson went, sounds like you picked up lots of tips to go out and practice with. Looking forward to lots of Roo reports :)
 
I loved Roos face when Louise got on him, you could tell he was put out... bless him! 5 into 6 is a funny age, they start to realise how big they are and that they can train us as much as we think we can train them!

The change of saddle will help you, definately.

Lovely pics from the weekend :)
 
Scarlett - he was exhausted! He slept the whole way home with his chin resting in his haynet! Gave me an idea of what I should be doing though - been a long long time since I had a horse that young, and back then I didn't have a clue anyway! Managed to find a second hand equipe like your one that we tried on him so will get saddler to look at that :)

Saratoga - good luck :) will look forward to some pictures! I'm sure he will be fab! Esp with the 'special reins' - will you use them for the sj? Saddle wise I have three second hand stubbens to try, plus some new albions and the ideals, and a second hand equipe. Off to Jods Galore to snag a few more to try at lunchtime!
NR99 - thanks :) going to try and get out a bit more over summer, may try a BN in a couple of weeks....
 
ecrozier said:
Saratoga - good luck :) will look forward to some pictures! I'm sure he will be fab! Esp with the 'special reins' - will you use them for the sj? Saddle wise I have three second hand stubbens to try, plus some new albions and the ideals, and a second hand equipe. Off to Jods Galore to snag a few more to try at lunchtime!
Click to expand...

Are they allowed for the SJ at BE? If so then yes I'll be wearing them, try and keep hold of his lordships head :D

Good luck with saddles :)
 
All sounds positive, so well done! I think most of it is you having courage in knowing what you are doing... have you got a "structure" that you work in? I have found since having a proper framework to work within, I am a lot better at sticking to my guns, and means we are both going better!!

Good luck with the saddles, you pretty much have the same as what we had to try on madam... we ended up with the equipe :D
 
You know what's really annoying? We actually had an Equipe with us on the day, just didn't make the connection. Oops, sorry.

Glad you got good stuff to take away and are finding some solutions for your partnership. Hang in there, as you say, these things take time and application.

Kat makes what I think is a very important point and one that was discussed over and over through the clinic - you gotta have a system. If you have faith in your aims and what you're supposed to be asking and getting, then it's much easier to persevere and not get dragged into an argument with the horse and doubt yourself.
 
ecrozier said:
Thanks vam - he is a fab horse, far far to good for me really but as I ended up with him by default (he was a cheap buy as a 2 year old intended to hunt/do RC stuff with my OH!) I am not planning on giving him up any time soon :)
Maybe we will be in same group when Louise comes back!
Click to expand...

Hopefully we will, i think there are more than enough of us to keep her busy for another week! :D
I feel the same with mine most of the time, i have moments when he feel brilliant and i think 'wow', then think 'cr@p im not good enough for this'. Im a bit stubborn thou so would rather try a step up than get rid, i dont think anyone would want him either :rolleyes:
Its funny TarrSteps should mention about have a system as this wasnt something i had until i started my lessons, since then having something to work on and aim for as ment i havnt just mooched along thinking im rubbish (well i dont think that as much).
Im also having saddle issues so will be intrested to see how you get on and what saddle suits, im going to have to go on the same hunt soon for mine and i cant say im looking forward to it :o
 
I think I did try the Equipe Tarrsteps, Laura brought it over and it looked to sit on him very nicely.
I do have a fairly set idea of what I am aiming for and a structure to work in but I am a bit rubbish at following it at home. I have a routine I try to stick to on a weekly basis etc as well.
My problem is definitely self doubt. When regular trainer is with me I can do what I need to do and it works. It's when I am at home alone that I tend to waver but can only get a lesson about once a month as he is just so busy! But I am hoping to try and get relatively regular private lessons booked in over the summer and take more specific 'homework' away with me each time. Is that kind of what you both mean by a structure?
 
Kind of. I always had a routine, a plan and goals, but getting my horse to go the way I wanted it to had no structure, as I'd try 10 different things until I got the right answer... and when I ran out of things to ask, and was still getting the wrong answer, got frustrated and then doubted myself.... does that make sense?!

I then started having lessons with someone who took one look at the horse and I, and told me very simple things which work to get her working how I want. I also now use the scales of training a lot more than has ever been mentioned before (even with having lessons with exceptional trainers and riders) which means I can very quickly diagnose what is going wrong, and sort it out!!

Quite simply, I've taken a lot of "tricks" out of the equation, and simplified it all, so if things go wrong, I've got a structure and checklist to see where I am at, and where it needs to go back to.... then whatever you do, whether it be jumping, poles, flatwork, etc etc, the way of going and riding is the same, just with different questions...

So for example, in every session I do now, I work on Rhythm, Straightness, Contact before anything else. These are what is required for any discipline, whether it be showjumping, dressage, etc etc. I know how to get the work, and I know what question to keep asking to get that result, and have the courage to ask it 20 times if need be to get that answer, instead of going "that's not working, try this" and changing the question, which is what I would have done before, and then not knowing what you have done to get the answer when you get it...

Does that make sense?! Sorry it's a bit rambly!!
 
KatB said:
Kind of. I always had a routine, a plan and goals, but getting my horse to go the way I wanted it to had no structure, as I'd try 10 different things until I got the right answer... and when I ran out of things to ask, and was still getting the wrong answer, got frustrated and then doubted myself.... does that make sense?!

I then started having lessons with someone who took one look at the horse and I, and told me very simple things which work to get her working how I want. I also now use the scales of training a lot more than has ever been mentioned before (even with having lessons with exceptional trainers and riders) which means I can very quickly diagnose what is going wrong, and sort it out!!

Quite simply, I've taken a lot of "tricks" out of the equation, and simplified it all, so if things go wrong, I've got a structure and checklist to see where I am at, and where it needs to go back to.... then whatever you do, whether it be jumping, poles, flatwork, etc etc, the way of going and riding is the same, just with different questions...

So for example, in every session I do now, I work on Rhythm, Straightness, Contact before anything else. These are what is required for any discipline, whether it be showjumping, dressage, etc etc. I know how to get the work, and I know what question to keep asking to get that result, and have the courage to ask it 20 times if need be to get that answer, instead of going "that's not working, try this" and changing the question, which is what I would have done before, and then not knowing what you have done to get the answer when you get it...

Does that make sense?! Sorry it's a bit rambly!!
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm totally butting in but this ^^^^ is exactly what I was talking to TS about last night when she was sitting on my boy - having a system, its all about having a system! A system that you can go back too when you need to but that gives you the right tools to go forward and ask the questions :) for him right now its calm, forward, straight. Once we get that we can move to the next thing.

So not rambling, makes total sense to me :) and nice to read someone else also having breakthroughs by making things more simple and having a system! :)

ETA - sorry for the massive thread hijack...!
 
I think that's a very good answer, KatB.

I'd add it's about knowing what you want, which really does only come with experience and "feel", helped along by someone on the ground saying "do this".

I would also add attention to detail, so EVERY time you ask you expect the right answer. Part of what having faith in a system gives you is the certainty, as Kat says, to keep asking consistently even if it takes awhile, to keep your "eye on the prize" as it were.

Not to drag any innocent parties into this ;) but were you privy to the discussion Louise and I had about the horse I was on? The rule was, "No, you don't drag me around. Never. Ever." It would be easy to say that horse speeds up because she has a "plan" but she doesn't. So we kept having the discussion, not roughly, not having a fight but consistently. Nope, you don't drag me through the canter transition. Nope, you don't drag me around the corner. Nope, you don't drag me to the jump. Nope, Nope you don't drag me through the air. Nope, you don't drag me after the jump. Nope, you don't drag me because the question has got a bit more complicated. Nope, you don't drag me because you're getting a bit tired. (Although, with that last one, it's bad training to persist past the point where the horse can physically do as you ask.) No expectation it will suddenly get fixed, or that the horse is doing it "on purpose", or that there are times you "have" to give up, just results oriented. This is also why you keep the jumps smallish and the distances conservative, so if you do have to insist it doesn't end up in a wreck.

Now, to be fair, she was lovely and the problem was minor but we did discuss how that seemingly minor issue does actually lead to a more serious one occasionally. A few times it all came together and the horse started to understand WHY I was making the requests I was making. It's not a magic cure, it's a step on the path. Horses want to be comfortable and confident, really they do.

So yes, it is about goals but it is also about details. Annoyingly, simple does not equal easy, but it is at least easier to keep track of than complicated!

It's not about being rigid and brutal, it's about taking the guesswork and emotion out of it. As George Morris said, you can only know how and when to tinker with your system when you have one in the first place.

I'd also add that having a system allows you to know when things are REALLY going wrong. If the horse has reacted consistently at the core of the work then all of a sudden doesn't, you know to go looking for trouble outside of the work, say a soundness issue. It means you have simple questions to ask, that you know the horse knows how to answer, and if you don't get those answers it's time to sit down and have a think.
 
Last edited:
Exactly TS and Scarlett. I loved watching and listening to Louise, as her principals are very much the same as my trainer. It's about consistency, and good training, and not about tricks to get short term results, but keeping the goal posts the same for the horse so it can learn to be consistent and confident in itself :)
 
Totally agree about the system, and I have in the past done exactly the same thing - keep trying different things and none of them with my conviction, and then moving on to another 'way' without really having any set goals.

I do think though that the system can be specific with each individual horse, and what works with one won't work with another.
 
Just nipping back to the OP....;-)
Lovely to see one of my favourites out and about! I look forward to seeing you on a better saddle for you both,certainly will make you feel more secure.
Keep up the rest of the good work!
Remember,know first what you want from your horse,then ask the question and show him the answer.... then repeat,repeat,repeat. Build up his confidence by showing him what IS allowed and what ISN'T. Stay consistent and don't panic! (Horses don't like surprises)
Good luck :-)
 
KatB said:
Exactly TS and Scarlett. I loved watching and listening to Louise, as her principals are very much the same as my trainer. It's about consistency, and good training, and not about tricks to get short term results, but keeping the goal posts the same for the horse so it can learn to be consistent and confident in itself :)
Click to expand...

This is exactly what we took from the session, so useful to have a fresh pair of eyes. That and much, much more but that is a good summary :)
 
Wow - I nipped out to lunch and all these responses ;)

Thanks all - yes Kat/Tarrsteps et al I think I do know what you mean, and it is something my SJ trainer is pretty hot on too, but I think my problem is a lack of discipline at home, and probably a lack of confidence that I am asking correctly etc. But I'm a much much better rider than I was a year ago (still not great, but when I get back on my old boy I can feel a difference in my capability to give clear instructions etc) so I think I need to work on being more disciplined with myself and jumping more at home.

I have now over the last few month started using just one flatwork trainer and one SJ and I am lucky in thatthey both adhere to a very similar methodology (again based around the scales of training) so when someone is on the ground keeping an eye on me we get some nice work! But I tend to doubt myself when alone and it all falls out of my brain completely when faced with a course in competition and I think only time and practice will improve that!
 
Roo is looking fab in the photo's :)

I agree it has a lot to do with being much more disciplined when you school. I am often the worst offender for this.

What you really need to establish with your trainers are what are the one or 2 key things that must take absolute focus for this stage in his training, these are usually the things that result in things going a bit tits up! Then have a few exercises to correct whatever is going wrong.

For example the primary issue for my horse is that he would prefer to place his left hind approx half a foot away from underneath his body and in conjunction load more weight through his right shoulder. Virtually all his schooling weaknesses come from this, and I have to constantly evaluate where he is placing LH and then re-engaging it when required (almost constantly!).

I often find myself having come away fro a lesson having done new exercises and at the time really understanding/getting what was being done and why, with the feeling I need stamped on my brain. Invariably a couple of days later I can't for love nor money remember exactly how I achieved what I had in the lesson ... due to that I have more recently started keeping a notebook, and if I have done a really good exercise, I immediately write it down in my own words in the notebook for future reference.
 
ihatework said:
due to that I have more recently started keeping a notebook, and if I have done a really good exercise, I immediately write it down in my own words in the notebook for future reference.
Click to expand...

I do this too :) and find that after a while I don't need to look back through it and those things do become imprinted on my brain. But it really helps with something new!
 
Thats a good idea guys thanks - will start a notebook. Am better with flatwork I think as know exactly what lets us down at the moment (his escapIng shoulders esp to the right) and have a few new exercises as of yesterday to sort that out, but should do the same with jumping really.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top