Best bit for strong pony

[peaceandquiet1]

As title-very strong wee pony, hanging cheek snaffle and now kimblewick not really making a difference, any suggestions please? Pony is a Welsh A type, 24 years old. Wears flash and running martingale. It's after the jump that she really goes which means daughter can't get her turned for the next one.

 

[AmyMay]

A kimblewick should do the job. Is your daughter having regular lessons?

 

[Hoofing-it]

A kimblewick should do the job. Is your daughter having regular lessons?

This^^^
Personally I'd be a little reluctant to put anything stronger in the hands of a child (absolutely no offence intended, I'm sure your child is very competent).
Further schooling would be my first approach. Good luck

 

[2horsesnomoney]

This^^^
Personally I'd be a little reluctant to put anything stronger in the hands of a child (absolutely no offence intended, I'm sure your child is very competent).
Further schooling would be my first approach. Good luck

this

i would work on schooling, half halts, balance and weight aids with a good instructor

 

[Dizzle]

Small child and a 24 year old pony that knows its job? What about a Wilkie? What does pony do when it gets strong?

 

[putasocinit]

You couldnt rally put anything else in ponys mouth, your daughter needs lessons to learn to sit back deep in the saddle as soon as the front legs have hit the ground and this should allow her body weight to natural pull back on the reins, get a better hold, also disengage the hind leg which would slow the pony down, its all practice, not bits. Agree more schooling half halts etc, do some practise jumps at home with a pole on the ground 2 strides after the jump this should also make the pony think about the pole instead of heading off.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

Pony is a super fast ex games pony and yes agree it's not all about bits but this is an exceptionally strong pony. Have told her to sit up as suggested but it is still a bit of a tug of war. My child has naturally light hands, I would just like her to have something the pony would respect a bit more.

 

[AmyMay]

So, more lessons - or different pony.

 

[Dizzle]

Pony is a super fast ex games pony and yes agree it's not all about bits but this is an exceptionally strong pony. Have told her to sit up as suggested but it is still a bit of a tug of war. My child has naturally light hands, I would just like her to have something the pony would respect a bit more.

I would try a Wilkie, what about some grid work? I don't think suggesting to a small child they get a new pony is really a practical option nor is suggesting they cannot use a stronger bit, I would try a new bit and combine that with lessons, the last thing you want is for a child to loose confidence because they cannot stop their pony, you can always go back to the hanging cheek.

 

[shannonandtay]

I would try a Wilkie, what about some grid work? I don't think suggesting to a small child they get a new pony is really a practical option nor is suggesting they cannot use a stronger bit, I would try a new bit and combine that with lessons, the last thing you want is for a child to loose confidence because they cannot stop their pony, you can always go back to the hanging cheek.

As above really, wilkie bits are good for strong ponies, also what is pony doing exactly? daughters pony would try to grab the bit and set his jaw so we tried him in a copper roller snaffle and this has helped with that.

 

[Tnavas]

How big is the pony and what age is your child? I'm going to disagree with many of the above. A Pelham or Uxeter bit will help your child stop without having to haul on the reins.

Little kids are just not strong enough to do much damage and with the pony being 24 it will know all the tricks in the book. To be able to stop/slow down with the minimum resistance is still going to teach the child to have kind hands, whereas hauling on the reins of a snaffle is not.

A pole 2 strides from a fence is dangerous for a little person to work with.

You could start to teach her exercises to regain control which will stand her in good stead for the future. Scatter poles around the arena and have her ride the course, place cones either side of the jumps that she must go through. Once she is riding these well, in trot, then change one pole to a small jump. For a while change the fence that has become a jump back to a pole so the pony doesn't get to know the course. Gradually as she retains control you can turn more of the poles into jumps.

One thing to consider is that often the reason for loss of control is loss of balance by the rider. Ensure that she has shortened her stirrups a couple of holes so that her thigh can be more in front of her. Work on jumping position. KEEPING HER BOTTOM TOUCHING THE SADDLE. Fold forward from the hips until her shoulders are in line with her knees and toes, ensuring that her back remains straight. This will give her a strong base of balance. Along with a firm neck strap part way up the ponies neck to help her follow through.

 

[putasocinit]

A pole 2 strides from a fence is dangerous for a little person to work with.

it was an idea to add to more ideas, nothing is ever set in stone, however I agree with your suggestions.

I do wonder if pony is running away from all the metal in its mouth, has a snaffle with a drop noseband been tried, without the drop noseband being made so tight it hurts the ponys teeth. Sometimes less is more.

 

[Tnavas]

it was an idea to add to more ideas, nothing is ever set in stone, however I agree with your suggestions.

I do wonder if pony is running away from all the metal in its mouth, has a snaffle with a drop noseband been tried, without the drop noseband being made so tight it hurts the ponys teeth. Sometimes less is more.

That's why the Pelham or Uxeter is so useful, unjointed it is milder on the mouth and instead works more on the chin groove and poll.

 

[putasocinit]

right , best the lady try it then

 

[ponypolisher]

I agree with Tnavas.

I also don't think a lot of people appreciate being a small person on a very strong pony, schooling and lessons are important but there comes a point where it is more productive for both pony and jockey to have a stronger bit and less fight in my opinion. I used the nueue shule Tranz Angled Lozenge Universal on an extremely strong 13.2 who didnt get in with a Pelham and I found it worked really well, has a 'snaffle' ring for when you need less and a 'curb' type ring which I used for jumping ect. I was quite a capable strong 16 year old at the time but still found myself having to turn the pony into arena fence to stop him in a snaffle when jumping. He liked it and did not object to it like the Pelham, which I think he didn't like because it was too much for his wee mouth and restrictive with the curb chain ect - just my musings really though. Hope this is of some help!

http://www.nsbits.com/index.php/performance-pony/loose-lever/tranz-angled-lozenge-universal.html

 

[peaceandquiet1]

Pony is just keen and strong, she is a lovely pony just likes to go faster than the rider wants. As daughter has four ponies there is no need to change the pony, she has other steadier ponies to ride. Tnavas daughter is ten and pony 11.2hh-simply a pocket rocket but yes she does get on her forehand and definately would help if daughter could get backside back into saddle much quicker. I don't want her to have to use really strong rein aids which is what happens in the snaffle. When daughter feels more confident she rides the pony much more forward which has the effect of slowing her down.

What is an Uxeter please-have a pelham I could try but instructor says sometimes ponies overbend away from them and keep going-she is a tricky pony to ride but not nasty or naughty just full of beans! She would never try to unseat her rider, she is honest that way.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

Ponypolisher that is interesting thank for that

 

[shannonandtay]

An uxeter is a kimblewick with the two slots on the bit ring so you can have a choice of where to position the reins to control the amount of curb needed. I thought you had said previously that you had already tried a kimblewick. Maybe a bit bank would be useful to try a few before you buy one and see what works best for rider and pony.

 

[Tnavas]

Pony is just keen and strong, she is a lovely pony just likes to go faster than the rider wants. As daughter has four ponies there is no need to change the pony, she has other steadier ponies to ride. Tnavas daughter is ten and pony 11.2hh-simply a pocket rocket but yes she does get on her forehand and definately would help if daughter could get backside back into saddle much quicker. I don't want her to have to use really strong rein aids which is what happens in the snaffle. When daughter feels more confident she rides the pony much more forward which has the effect of slowing her down.

What is an Uxeter please-have a pelham I could try but instructor says sometimes ponies overbend away from them and keep going-she is a tricky pony to ride but not nasty or naughty just full of beans! She would never try to unseat her rider, she is honest that way.

This is the Uxeter

If you use the Pelham make sure that you place the chain through the rings as this then places it in the correct place - the chin groove. This prevents the chain pinching the corners of the mouth between the chain and mouthpiece and riding up the jaw bone.

 

[putasocinit]

In my thread i was referring to the pelham as an example being too much bit in the ponys mouth and i also referred to the snaffle as in sometimes less is more, as a poster has said ponys tuck their heads in to their necks when there is so much in their mouth. Have you tried a snaffle. I do like to actually try something first before saying it wont work, then each to their own.

Then again i am from the old school where my father didnt take tears and falling off lightly and you got a good spanking for it, so you learnt how to do it right without additional aids fo fear of getting the riding crop across your ass.k. It made me a better rider and i can still sit most horses today at the age of 50.

I do hope you find a solution and the wee lass gets the best out of her pony, happy days.

 

[-Rose-]

As a teenager who only recently sold her first pony ( who sounds incredibly similar to yours!) I believe I can relate to you daughter. I spent the majority of the first year I owned my pony hauling as no one listened to how strong he was telling me just to sit up and pull - which had no affect at all - I simply wasn't strong enough! However in the end we found it worked best to alternate bits- between a Wilkie, a uxeter and a hanging snaffle. They were a variety of strengths and kept my clever pony on his toes as he never had one in for long enough to learn all the tricks. Schooling would definitely help but don't forget to now and again go back to a lighter bit - you may be surprised at the response you get! I hope this helps!

 

[mirage]

We've recently had a similar problem with my 10 year olds connie.Lovely pony,but gets strong jumping,and doesn't want to stop or be steered.We have changed his bit to a Waterford and he seems very happy in it,plus can't take hold of the bit and go.In addition she has weekly lessons,learning to slow him with her seat [hard when you are a tiny skinny little thing though,but she's doing it].Her instructor is concentrating on trotting poles,plus a small jump,and making him trot,rather than bomb over them at top speed.

He seems to be getting the message that he goes at the speed she has asked for,not what he thinks he'd like to go at.It is hard when they are little and it is a fine balancing act to get them to improve their riding to cope with the pony versus losing their confidence before they improve enough.

Good luck.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

Just to be clear pony came with hanging cheek snaffle and has been ridden in that for 18 months as was intended for games and games ponies go in snaffles. However we have given up games so are free to use whatever suits. The kimblewick has made a little difference but not much. On the flat the snaffle is fine and it was fine for games too but when jumping it's not enough. Daughter does not cry! She loves the pony and the forwardness and enthusiasm but when jumping she just picks up too much speed. Thank you to those who understand how strong these ponies can be!

 

[mirage]

Ours was in a hanging cheek snaffle too,horsemadmum1,which is fine for hacking ect,but when jumping he tended to put his head down,flatten and go.I did some bit research and found a hanging cheek is recommended for ponies that hold their heads too high and encourages them to bring it down.Not good for one who does that anyway!

I hope you can find something that works.Does your instructor have any suggestions?

 

[minesadouble]

Is the pony raising or dropping its head to evade the bit?
It's all well and good suggssting schooling etc but an elderly opinionated section A may well be very set in its ways (trust me I've known a few) and mounted games ponies are not known for being sedate
We bought a very strong pony who was in a Dutch gag, we tried him in a bit with a lozenge and it made the world of difference to him. Sometimes just a simple change of mouthpiece can work wonders.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

Definately dropping her head. It's more noticeable when jumping than when doing games. Instructor thought kimblewick good choice but I can't see much of a difference. Looking back I remember I really strong jumping pony I had and I found a Cheltenham gag worked wonders. The pony is not going to change much I agree, daughter's riding can continue to improve and I would love to find the right mouthpiece for this pony. Just to add, when we bought her seller said she didn't ever trot but would just go straight into canter but daughter has worked away in arena and pony does a lovely trot now, so some progress. Games ponies don't read the usual rulebooks

 

[peaceandquiet1]

Mirage that's exactly what she does-drop her head flatten and go!

 

[Tnavas]

Definately dropping her head. It's more noticeable when jumping than when doing games. Instructor thought kimblewick good choice but I can't see much of a difference. Looking back I remember I really strong jumping pony I had and I found a Cheltenham gag worked wonders. The pony is not going to change much I agree, daughter's riding can continue to improve and I would love to find the right mouthpiece for this pony. Just to add, when we bought her seller said she didn't ever trot but would just go straight into canter but daughter has worked away in arena and pony does a lovely trot now, so some progress. Games ponies don't read the usual rulebooks

Cheltenham gag would be great as it is designed to lift the horses head. Technically it should be used with two reins so that it works as a normal snaffle on the main bit ring and then as a running gag on the small ring. Generally though you usually see it used with just the one rein.

Would definitely be worth a try