Best Feed for Underweight TB?

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Hi all, been given various advice from various people, was wondering what y'all's experience had been?

I have on loan a 15.3 Ex-racer tb, he's 12 yrs old.

Only had him a month, so of course he's still under-weight but I'd like to see him put weight on slightly more quickly than he currently is.

He's rugged and out during the day, in at night.

He's eating ad-lib haylage
2.5 scoops sugarbeet
1 scoop pasture mix
1 scoop rolled barley (as advised by feed store)
2.5 Alpha A
Blue Chip
Linseed Oil

Does this sound reasonable? Anything I can/should add/take away?
 
How many feeds is that divided into?

Personally I can't see the point of feeding the pasture mix AND the barley. Either get rid of the pasture mix and increase the barley, or choose a conditioning cube instead of both of them.

Has the horse's teeth been checked? Just how thin is he?
 
My old loan horse was a 9yo 15.2hh TB ex-racer/polo pony and a poor doer. I had him for 6 years and during winter months he was fed twice a day:-
1 1/2 Scoop Build up first few years / 1 1/2 Scoop Cool mix last few years (owners preference)
1 Scoop Speedi-beet
Apple chaff
Garlic
Ad-lib hay or haylage
This always kept the weight on through the winter months and didn't fizz him up either.
Hope this helps :)
 
My TB is a poor doer and I struggled for years to get the weight on him properly especially as he seemed to react to any kind of conditioning food - they all just seemed to heat him up rather than add weight. A couple of years ago I came across Simple Systems grass nuts and we haven't looked back! He can eat loads of this without affecting him and I add some high fibre cubes to make it a bit more interesting, and a handful of balancer which he seems to be able to tolerate. Other products that I had some success with were Copra meal which is dried coconut flesh which you reconstitute with water and also the Winergy low energy food but it was quite expensive!

Keeping my boy warm has also been key to keeping his weight on. At night he currently has a fleece, an under rug with a neck and a heavy weight stable rug. During the day he has a heavy weight TO plus his fleece. I feel that some of the guys at my yard think I'm over reacting and putting too much on him,but I know if he gets cold, the weight drops. He is also very good at telling me if he's too hot or not so I go with what he's telling me. All the best.
 
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That feed sounds about right but no need to feed pasture mix and Barley, one or the other will be fine and add a conditioning cube. That is a fair bit of food there, so insure he is having it devided between three feeds, so he can get the most out of it.
Also make sure his exercise is not so much at this stage that he is burning off the calories. You want the weight gain to be steady and not too fast more likely to keep a good weight that way so if he has been putting on the weight then stay as you are, don't worry about rushing it on.
 
I personally wouldn't feed the mix.

I really rate D&H Build up cubes - and would feed that alongside Alpha A oil and sugar beet (although only one scoop of the beet per meal).
 
How much do you feed :eek:

I used to feed my tbs, baileys no 4, alfa a , sugar beet scoop by scoop and they use to cost me so much in feed it was un real and all seemed to be bad doers.

Iv been on topspec comprehensive balancer for over a year now and the difference is amazing. I now feed

half amount off balancer ( as they got fat)
single handfull off hi fi
that's it, once a day.

I'm saving a lot off money on feed now.
 
Thanks for the replies! :)

TGM- Currently its divided into two feeds, unfortunately I can't get up there three times a day or I would. His teeth and everything else was checked during his vetting (by my vet) when he arrived. All ok, he's just spent the past winter turned out on adlib hay but no hard feed and I think he's too sensitive for that (which is partly why he was loaned out as owner had no stable space). He's this thin (Apologies for his head being cut off- he found grass lol):

181811_10150141681282565_752992564_8121965_5716529_n.jpg


Snoopy- He currently has a HW rug when out and a stable rug when in, and seems warm to to the touch/base of ears when I see him so I think this is right for him? I think his condition currently is really due to having been turned out for most of the winter...

Sandylou- that sounds similiar to what I feed so perhaps we'll fair better next winter if I start him off on it rather than adding it in halfway through the winter hehe.

Sammi- someone else mentioned about exersise, too, he's not really being ridden/worked right now, I've ridden him twice in the last 4 wks just to get a saddle on him really, to the ndof the lane and back.

AmyMay is there a reason you only feed 1 scoop sugarbeet per meal? Is it too wet for them to digest properly? I think you're right about the mix, everyone seems to think it and the barley are too much together, although some say the barley will heat him up and others say the mix will :S

Thatsmygirl- I feed like I don't have 2 kids to feed LOL. It does cost a fortune!!!
 
i have a tb mare who is looking the best she has for this time of year.
i feed her:
scoop alfa a oil
2x scoop conditioning cubes
roughly a mug of sunflower oil
(she has 2 feeds a day so it is divided morning and night eg:1 scoop cubes morning and 1 night!!)

she also gets all the haylege she can eat and is ridden/lunged 6 days out of 7 and this diet is keeping her looking well! plus she has a ridiculously shiny coat from all the oil!!! lol :)
 
AmyMay is there a reason you only feed 1 scoop sugarbeet per meal? Is it too wet for them to digest properly? I think you're right about the mix, everyone seems to think it and the barley are too much together, although some say the barley will heat him up and others say the mix will :S
Click to expand...

Because whilst sugar beet undoubtedly has it's benefits, too much will just run through the system, and have a laxative affect. You're better off feeding a high calorie high oil based diet - rather than one just based on the beet.

He does look really poor - and would echo the worming. Also perhaps a worm count and blood test??

I also wonder if you might be over-rugging, which won't help. He has a very good coat on him......

Another poster has mentioned calm and condition - which to my mind is a very costly (and pretty useless) way to feed a horse. And I've never seen it benefit anything, really.

How long is he out for during the day - and does he have access to hay then?

Does he have hay left in the morning???
 
I think once the warm weather and grass comes through he will pick up, looks like he has been lacking in a bit of TLC bless him. The fact his coat is so thick suggests that he was cold before you got him and struggling to keep warm.

My mums TB is prone to loosing weight and is fussy about eating all his haylage. He gets Alfa A oil, Baileys Outshine and Speedie beet split into 3 meals per day and he looks fab.

What ever you feed your horse don't feed big meals in one go. He won't be able to digest it and it will just go straight through him. I think horses can only digest up to 2kilos per meal so bear this in mind. Otherwise you are just chucking in money one end and watching it come out the other!

Once he's built up weight you should be able to wean him off all the food and keep him ticking along on something less. My TB like the poster aboves looks a picture on a scoop of HiFi and some balancer!

:)
 
Sammii819 said:
That feed sounds about right but no need to feed pasture mix and Barley, one or the other will be fine and add a conditioning cube.
Click to expand...

Why would you add a conditioning feed TO either barley or pasture mix?
Surely just a conditioning cube(baileys no 4) with something like alfa a oil would be far less complicated, and more likely to be balanced for vits/mins.
 
I would suggest weighing what you give him in each feed - you really don't want to exceed 2kg dry weight per feed. If you can only give two feeds a day, then it would make even more sense to drop the pasture mix because it doesn't contain as many calories as either barley or a conditioning cube/mix. If you find that he is not gaining weight then you could look at an oil-rich supplement of some kind - these are very dense in calories so only a small amount can give a good weight gain effect. However, if he was only on hay when he first came to you, then I wouldn't think you should really need to increase the feed much more, I suspect the weight will come on with patience. Are you weigh taping him once a week to monitor his progress?

Both barley and the pasture mix do have the potential to heat him up if he is sensitive that way, because they are both cereal-based - the barley more so because obviously it is pure cereal, whereas the mix will have some non-cereal content as well. However, some horses seem to tolerate cereals well - how long has he been on the barley and have you noticed any loopiness from him? If you decided to swap to a conditioning cube and you find he is the type to heat up, then choose your cube carefully as they vary quite a lot in terms of cereal content (and therefore starch content). Some manufacturers put the starch content on their websites/bags but others will tell you it if you email or phone them. Another factor to note when looking at weight-gain feeds is the 'calorie count' which is expressed in MJDE/kg. So a 13 MJDE/kg feed will be more effective at putting weight on than a 10 MJDE/kg feed when fed at the same rate (all other factors being equal).
 
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Mine came to me racing fit in September so was trim trim trim trim trim!! He lost a bit of weight from moving - he is only 2.5yrs - which is just natural I guess from anxiety. To my utter amazment he has wintered exceptionally well - granted he no longer has his racing sleek coat but instead looks like a pit pony so is quite fluffly, but you can just about feel ribs. But then, thats the nature of a thoroughbred.

He gets as much haylage as he can eat (which is not good quality from our yard unfortunately), two biiiiig handfuls of chaff (alternate between herbal, apple and cherry to keep him interested) for his tea, a dollop of sugabeet and carrots which have to be fed every now and then as he obssesses and then wont eat anything other carrots! End of. The last four months he's been getting a sprinkle of limestone flour so his bones develop properly as he's growing like a weed and biotin for his feet. Touch wood he has really good feet since he threw his shoes that were ripping them to bits!

Obviously there's an age & use difference but that's all mine gets and he seems happy enough. He's never going to be free range like my friends Jo-Lo assed cob!! :D
 
Weight needs to be put on slowly with ad lib hay and low starch conditioning high oil feeds. TS balancer and cool condition cubes with alpha a oil & speedibeet is a good start and as the grass comes up and he is able to start work properly he will build up some muscle.

Also as others have said ensure his wormer is up todate. Another reason he may look poor is teeth and or ulcers.
 
I would personally get rid of the pasture mix it just adds bulk to your feed and not really that great at adding weight.

Not sure if you've seen the difference in Andy but that was done on:
cod liver oil
Blue Chip Original
Alfa-A
D&H Build up Cubes
He is at his optimum weight now (400kg) within 4 weeks, it didn't fizz him up either but he looks very well atm. :)

This was taken 10 days ago and he has put on weight since and he obviously still needs more muscle:

P1030331.jpg



(sorry for size of picture)
 
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AmyMay, thanks for explaining that about sugarbeet. He's out from 9.30am-around 5.30 and has haylage put out morning and midday (by the YO) and haylage at night. Yes he has usually about half a net left in the am.
That pic of him is when he arrived, he has put a little weight on since then, I'll try to get an up to date photo today.

TGM- Thanks, I guess I will get ride of the pasture mix and stick to barley, although on both I haven't noticed any fizziness this might be because he's under-conditioned so far. I'll keep an eye on it as he gains weight and fitness.

So, if I change him slowly over the next week or so to:

1 Scoop Sugarbeet
1 Scoop Barley
Alpha A Oil
Conditioning Cubes
Blue chip
Linseed oil

Twice a day? And of course adlib haylage? Or lose the barley and just stick to cubes and the rest?
 
So, if I change him slowly over the next week or so to:

1 Scoop Sugarbeet
1 Scoop Barley
Alpha A Oil
Conditioning Cubes
Blue chip
Linseed oil
Click to expand...

I'd keep it simple (and less costly)

You don't need blue chip, lindseed oil and barley if you are feeding a good quality conditioning cube and the alpha a oil.

Alpha A Oil
Sugar Beet
Conditioning Cubes

Twice a day.
 
Agree that you should choose EITHER conditioning cubes OR barley (which should either be the flaked/micronised kind or boiled). If you decide on barley then you should feed the balancer at full dose alongside it to provide vit/mins.

If you decide on conditioning cubes then the feed will be supplemented with vit/mins anyway, but will only give the full amount of vit/mins if fed at the manufacturer's recommended rate. For example, if you choose Build Up then the recommended rate is 4kg for a 500kg horse. If you are feeding less than the recommended rate then you can give reduced dose of the balancer to top up the vit/mins. For example, if you are feeding half the recommended amount of cubes, then you can give half the recommended amount of balancer. The balancer is also useful as it contains probiotics which are said to keep the gut healthy and help the horse make the most of its food.
 
Mine was very underweight when i first got her,we got her on a strict worming routine to make sure she was completly clear and i fed her coolstance from as soon as i got her,it's said to make some horses very fizzy,but i have never had this problem and she natrually is a high spirited girlie.I fed that along side showshine molichaff and c&c cubes and she's in beautiful condition now,
 
I'm watching this thread with interest as i have two ex racers both at opposite ends of the scale.

Fred i feed 1 level scoop of Hi-Fi original and about a third of a scoop sugar beet twice a day and he is looking real good, i feed him only this in winter, in fact he could actually do with shedding a few pounds before spring comes! In summer he only gets half a scoop hi-fi lite twice a day.

Marley has just lost condition fairly quickly the past few weeks which i have put down to pacing in the field waiting for his other friend to come out which thankfully he has now stopped. He is not really skinny, you can just about see his ribs but i don't like this and would rather him have a bit more coverage. I feed him 1 heaped scoop of hi-fi original, i have just changed from barley to a conditioning cube but not sure whether to go back to the barley, neither heats him up. He gets half a scoop of the conditioning cube (was half a scoop of barley) and half a scoop of sugar beet twice a day. I have just started to add corn oil as i read an article on here about using corn oil for weight gain. He was fed the same as Fred in summer and was starting to look like an elephant by the end with all the nice grass.

They both get as much hay as they can eat but Marley does not eat much and is the same with haylage, he just picks at it really, and i rug both of them well neither are clipped and depending on temperatures and wind chill either have heavy or medium rugs at the moment.
 
I agree on strict worming programme also if hes not picked up maybe a blood test, I would personally lunge him a few times a week to build up his topline as i know if i leave my old boy it all goes off the top to the bottem and he looks like a mare in foal ;)
I would personally knock the cereal based products out, there a load of crap and personally i dont understand why anyone feeds them it (crushed peas) in pasture mix thats soo natural rant rant lol
ALtho none of it is a natural feed for a horse keeping it simple is must.
Ive seen great things from conditioning cubes and blue chip but arnt they both really doing the same thing to (put weight on/ condition)?
I would put him on 1-2 scoops of beet not too sloppy
2 scoops of alfa oil so the beet juices get soaked up
1 scoop of condition cubes and blob of oil maybe pink powder

My old horses in there teens most twentys were out all winter, rugged in a big feild bail of fantastic quality hay every week no feed and they are all tb's and they are all as fat as houses. I always thinks quality rather than quantity especially forage feed.
xx
 
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