BEVA criteria for PTS also in vet

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kez1001

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Looking for some advice from anyone with some experience in this area.

I had my mare put to sleep on vets reccommendation following horrific accident when riding in an arena that she landed on a 6 inch nail that went up the cleft of her frog and perforated her navicular bursa, DDFT and reaching into her coffin joint. I was told there was a proceedure that could be "tried" to irrigate/flush out the joint but it was a very poor prognosis with a 30% chance of it working and a huge risk of hoof infections and septiciamia. Plus as they would have to wash the joint out by going in through the DDFT so therefore causing more damage and probably making the best outcome her being 2/10 sound. I will add also she was only 10yo and a fit TB, about to compete at her second BE event.

Now i trust my vet and wanted the best for my mare, i feel this was a very hard selfless decision to make but one i made on her best interests. My problem is my insurance company, it has been six weeks and i feel they are really giving me a run around
They wrote to me 10days after claim form sent in to say it was received and not to contact them, then a furhter 10 days later to ask for proof of ownership, original receipt for horse and further vet report!! Furious as i have paid my premium for 4 years, never late and they have never wanted proof of ownership or receipt before. So today i received another letter saying claim is being passed to consultant vet??? why? there were 3 vets in attendance, injury happened out of hours and i took their advice? i feel as though i must be missing something. My vet estimated that cost of treating injury would have been around 10k by the time they operated etc and recovery expenses, whch insurance company would of had to pay out and surely if vets seen nice big cheque for that coming thier way they would have advised that?? My girl was only insured for 2k but she was worth more and priceless in my eyes.

Sorry for being over emotional just feel as though i have somehow done the wrong thing by puttins her to sleep as surely you insure against these kind of accidents i.e freak ones that are so cruel. Any advice guys or similar experiences? thanks
 
I read your post after the accident and from that i'm sure you did the right thing for your mare. It just sounds like the insurance company trying to save themselves some money but hang in there, it's awful that they're making you question your decision.
 
Poor you, Im so sorry to hear about your girl.
Im sure its just proceedures that they are following and you will have nothing to worry about especially if it is one of the better companies.
My horse had to be pts a few years back with colic, my vet had contacted the practice who rang the insurance company to get the go ahead. I didnt know any of this at the time, It was NFU and they gave the go ahead over the phone but that was in office hours, out of office hours Im sure would have been the same as your going through now. A friend years ago had a right fight with another well know company over having her laminitic horse pts. It was awful as the horse was suffering and it took a week to sort out.
Im sure everything will be ok.
 
My boy was PTS after a long illness. He went downhill quite suddenly, we didn't call the insurance company before doing it. My vet called them (NFU) to inform them it had been done by the guidelines.

I had no more problems other than they asked for a letter from the vet confirming the day it had been done. That annoyed me as they had the invoices with the dates on!!! But nevermind. Took about 2 months for the cheque to arrive. I don't know what happened in between, I didn't hear from them.
 
i really hope i dont have anything to worry about its just so hard to have them make you think you somehow gave up on your horse. with the best case scenario being 2/10 sound at age 10, she had potentially 20years to plod around bored and sore. Plus she would of never survived the box rest she would of been depressed. I loved my horse and always put her needs first. I would never of made her suffer unintentionally but likewise if i thought there was a good chance it would work i would have tried :( i really miss my little horse :(:(:( my only consolation is that i would rather be suffering this than have her stand here suffering.

sorry for emotional rambling i feel so low :(
 
I'm so sorry to hear about your poor horse.

Insurance companies famously try and wriggle. Hence the 101 questions!!

I'm currently in the middle of a vet fees claim, I had a very oddly worded letter come, asking what I meant by off her food!!! errmmm!!! What do you think??!!! Anyway I answered them as best I could and forwarded the veterinary based questions to my vet to send on, after that no more questions but I did have to wait about a month from treatment to getting the first cheque! Most PTS situations you have to consult the insurance company first, and therefore when it happens out of hours they will look at anyway of evading payment!! But if it was done on veterinary recommendation then I cannot see there being a problem unless this is a certain shall not be named company!!???

Anyway good luck with it, I'm sure it'll all work out well.
 
hmm i am beginning to wonder if the company i had her insured with are really up to scratch :(

hopefully as it was out of hours they should take my vets word for it but then vet was first called at 2.30pm and decision to PTS was after hours due to length of time to get a diagnosis?? oh my head hurts, want to cry :(
 
I am so so sorry for your loss.....

My 5 yr old mare also did something very similar but luckily for us it missed the coffin joint but got the DDFT and nicked the navicular bursa. My bill was £5k and she ended up having a year of box rest although I was walking her in hand and started riding in walk after 6 months but it was another 6 months before I was allowed to trot and just over a year after the injury she went ever so slightly lame. She had an MRI (about her 9th by this stage) and even though the original injury had healed the tendon had split just above it. At this point she was written off as a riding horse aged just 6........ She had surgery so another £5k bill which my lovely vets somehow got my insurance to pay......

I tried to breed from her as she was a fab mare with fab breeding but she lost the foal after some 4 months so I decided enough was enough and decided to just let her be and retire her properly......She was now just 7.... ironically she the broke her leg in the field just 3 days later and nothing could be done......

I would have done it all again just to have her back for a second and to this day I simply cannot believe that a nail can do so much damage.

I have no doubt in my mind that you absolutely did the right thing as your poor mares damage was worse than mine and the healing process of all that box rest was absolute hell...

I hope your insurance stop playing horrid games and come good for you. This truely is not something to quibble about.
 
madisonbelle - how awful for you so sorry to hear of your poor mare :( life is so so cruel. I had thought that if Izzy would have made it through all that i would of bred from her. I had planned what i would do if her ridden career was ever cut short, one of my friends was desperate to have a foal from her and even if that hadnt worked out i could of kept her on her land for all her days. She was a forever horse and would never of left me.

My vet had warned that the DDFT would possibly tear above the injury due to strain and also the other leg could be damaged due to taking more work (not the right phrase but you know what i mean) sorry again to hear of your loss :(
 
kez1001 said:
hmm i am beginning to wonder if the company i had her insured with are really up to scratch :(

hopefully as it was out of hours they should take my vets word for it but then vet was first called at 2.30pm and decision to PTS was after hours due to length of time to get a diagnosis?? oh my head hurts, want to cry :(
Click to expand...

Big hugs xx
My situation was the same but about 2 hrs later what with rectalling, giving drugs etc etc and I just couldnt make the decision to pts, its so so hard. She kept seeming better and I kept beating myself up about whether to send her for surgery or not (NFU gave the go ahead for surgery or pts) but my mare at 8 yrs old had just been retired with ringbone and vets advice was she didnt think she would cope with the box rest IF she made it through the surgery as she reckoned her colon would have died due to the length of time she'd been ill (overnight).
If its a certain company then however hard it will be for you emotionally, dont give up. You did the best for your horse and put her welfare first.
 
We went through the same sort of thing with Tiggy when she was put to sleep.

When the insurance company wrote to me for the umpteenth time (I'd accepted their consultant vet and them needing all the paperwork, but was often in tears), my vet wrote a stinging letter to the insurance company and their vet. They paid out fairly sharply after that.
 
I was very lucky when I had my mare put to sleep, in that then insurance company accepted the blubbering message I left on their answerphone and then once I'd filled in the form and got my vet to sign it, they sent me a cheque by return of post in a condolences card. I've never forgotten how kindly they treated me and as a result, the one of my 7 who is still insured is insured with them.

The last thing you need at a time like this is grief from the insurance. I hope you get it sorted out.
 
Don't panic. Speak to your vets so they know what the insurance company is up to. I am sure they will do whatever is necessary to help you. It sounds like you made absolutely the right decision based on your vets advice. Your insurance company isn't based in York by any chance?
 
The BEVA guidelines state that the horse must be in "constant, unrelenting pain with no hope of recovery" therefore it covers things like badly broken legs, back, extreme colic etc. Unfortunately your horse did not fall into that category at the time (please don't think that I am saying that you did the wrong thing!) and so Insurers will not immediately pay out. They are not able to use their opinions and knowledge to "just pay out" there are hoops that have to be jumped through and since your horse didn't fall into this category, their vet and your vet will have to discuss it.

The reason that you didn't go for surgery was not to save them money- if your horse is covered then it is covered. They don't need to "save money" they need their criteria to be met. I understand how upsetting it is but you would not believe how many people put their horses to sleep because they cannot be bothered to rehabilitate them from an injury.

If you had loss of use cover, you would have been able to claim under that. There is a big difference between mortality guidelines and LOU guidelines.

You have my sympathy for your loss, you must still be devastated. :(
 
Happyhorse - they are based in middlesex.

Farrierlover - i understand what you are saying i just find this nonsense barbaric. A girl at my yard had her horse PTS 3 days ago because she couldnt be bothered to investigate the problem. She had two vets "opinions" on what they thought might be why her horse was lame but in fact the 2nd is my vet and he said to her that she really needed XRAYs and scans to diagnoise problem (which actually makes me think first vet told her this too!) and he then gave her the choice of box rest for 1 month on bute then reassess. She PTS and i have to admit i found it hard to look at her. one month was nothing! she didnt give her a chance and i totally get there are lots of owners like that - but i really am not, i didnt want her to be PTS i wanted her to be here :( i think the criteria punish you for being responsible, i really followed my vets advice if i had kept her here that would of made her suffer for selfish reasons.
I downloaded the BEVA guideline and it of course gives you only two situations where the horse must be imediately destroyed, long bone fractures and perforation of SSFT but only at a certain point. every other condition mentioned does say a second opinion should be sought, however 3 vets attended to her out of hours? These two condtions that mean horse should be imediately destroyed have an active life and pasture life prognosis as hopeless. There are only two conditions that are on the criteria that tie in with what happened to Izzy and they are perforation for DDFT which has active life and pasture prognosis as hopeless and non responsive septaeciamia which has hopeless as outcome too there are not really any other conditions with such a negative outlook - its such a mess. Sorry i am not meaning to get at you just a hard time for me :( really does make me feel as though i have done something wrong by my mare.
I am starting to understand why people dont bother with insurance. I guess i will just have to accept that i did the right thing by anyone with any humanity standards but not by the insurance crooks.
 
OP.....I am in exactly the same situation.

My horse was colicking badly- he had never had colic before and was aged about 22, so I knew it wasn't good.

Vet came, sedated, tubed him etc and said basically - he isn't going to get better. Option of major surgery 3 hours away at Liverpool which may or may not work. Bearing in mind my horse was old, hated boxrest and was a crap traveller we decided to give him painkillers etc and review in a couple of hours after I had come to a decision. Rang the insurance company who said if theres treatment available and I chose to PTS they wouldn't pay out.

When the vet came back, Desi was distressed again- she said he'd wouldnt make the journey- in fact she had difficulty getting a vein to PTS. I didn't let the fact I knew I wouldn't get paid out on the insurane colour my decision- I made the decision which was right for my horse.

OH mentioned to the Vet what the insurance company had said and she was outraged. She wrote a strong letter in justification of PTS under BEVA guidelines.

I had exactly the same letters as you- been referred to Constultant Vet.

Now- I have a feeling they won't pay out. The money really isnt the issue...its the feeling that I know that me and the Vet made the right decision for my horse - we acted in his best interests. Certainly he would have been a nightmare on boxrest and he hated travelling too.....

His value was significantly lower than what it would have cost for the surgery and aftercare......which they would have been happy to pay for:confused: Just don't get the rationale at all.

ps.....was it PetPlan by any chance?
 
If you have the strength, fight it. Tiggy was not an 'immediate' case. She had chronic damage to both hind suspensory ligaments.

I thought she was going to be a field ornament for the next twenty years plus (she was four at the time). It slowly dawned on me that she wouldn't cope with the winters. Then seeing her walking and turning so slowly and carefully, then seeing that she couldn't stale properly (she couldn't get her legs, her off-hind especially, in the right order/take the strain) I realised that she was not going to be around at all. I had to let her go, she was in pain and I couldn't stop it or fix her (the damage was beyond the operation criteria).

Tiggy was put to sleep because I knew she couldn't survive like that. I had it done not knowing if the insurance would pay out under BEVA or not, I just knew, like you, that I had to do it for her.

After my vet wrote to the insurance company and they paid out for loss of animal.
 
So sorry to hear about your girl - you made the right decision. It is'nt always right to put some horses through lengthy treatment - some simply will suffer more from a restricted life than others. You have to make the right decision with the knowledge you have of your horse.

I am going through a loss of use claim with NFU after which my wonderful boy will be PTS. It is a very long story of four years of ill health, difficult diagnosis and not much quality of life for him at certain times. His respiratory disease is now very bad and the drugs bill is horrendous, I am not working regularly and have no choice. NFU seem in a bit of chaos at the moment - they moved offices last week and cannot find anything, including my horse's file. I am now about to ring them yet again to see if they can confirm arrival my vets letter about loss of use and what to do next. They always promise to ring back after tracking the file but so far three broken promises over three weeks. It is not helping my distress I can tell you!!!

Hope there is good news in the post today for you!
 
I am so sorry to hear of your loss and the nightmare the insurance company is giving you!! :(

Both my mare's 9yo and 10yo were PTS this summer; the first had incurrable lameness in her stifle's - she'd had it operated on twice to no avail and we were advised by our vet (and World Horse Welfare) that it would be the kindest thing to do for her as come the end she could hardly walk. We did not get anything from the insurance company for her and lost £12k.

My other mare was beyond the state of repair - she had a back op in Sept 2007 which she briefly recovered from by Feb 2008, but then the supraspinous ligament went so she was put in foal and not worked again until December 2009. She was in work from December until a week to the day after we lost Treacle when she was back to square one and in terrbile pain. We took her to the vets for a final assessment and this is what they found:
Lame in both hind legs - stifle and potential OCD
Sore both sides of the SI joint with a swelling on top
Muscle wastage in her H.Quarters
6 or 7 holes in her supraspinous ligament
The tops of the dorsal spines had deformed where the holes int he ligaments were and grown spurs of bone to attach to the ligament
She must have been in so much pain and were advised again by the vet to PTS - I simply don't know how she went so beautifully in the 6 months, winning dressage with over 70% and xc... :(
We got nothing for her from the insurance either and lost £6k.

So in total we lost £18,000 of horse in 6 weeks, and were absolutely devastated to lose both my best friends.

The insurance company sent just a cheque for £56 to refund one month's premium for the first horse - I felt like tearing the cheque up. It just added insult to injury :(

I don't like insurance companies, but I would never not insure after £10k worth of combined vets fees for both horses in 2 years.

I hope you have more luck in your case
 
Hi, I remember your original post. You made the right decision for your poor horse, that's what matters most. So sorry the insurance is giving you a hard time.
 
poppymoo - exactly how i feel i know me and vet made the right decision by her but am furious that insurance disagree. it was the same underwriters as pet plan! its just maddening isnt it- sorry to hear of your loss too. Let me know how you get on
mrs m - strength is exactly what i need. i will try to fight for Izzy, i truly wanted the best for her and to make her suffer would of been to much to bear :( sorry about Tiggy
diane - fingers crossed for you too, sorry for your loss, hope you get some good news soon :)
jess1 - i cant imagine how it feels to lose 2 so close together,so sorry. you are so brave its horrible to hear how after all that you get a cheque for such a trivial amount, i too would want to rip it up, its not about the money its the compensation for something priceless and worth more than anything you can put a price on :(
 
Don't give up hope. In my experiences with insurance companies they always make it difficult for you to claim your money. Years ago my horse broke it's leg so there wasn't even any grey areas and I had to keep on at them to get my money.
Even when my dad died it was a struggle to get money from his life insurance to pay for the funeral!
They seem to put up every obstacle they can think of. It's terrible that you have to keep nagging them at a time when you are so upset. Good luck!
 
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