BHS Head Office has stomped on me. Legal advice please.

[vanrim]

I have volunteered for Wirral branch BHS committee for about 6 years. Recently I was not happy with the way they treated a couple of other volunteers so I wrote asking for an explanation. The first response was that they couldn’t do anything unless those people themselves made a complaint. The third related to a letter they printed in the BHS magazine which referred to one of our commitee and her company in an unfavourable light. I have repeatedly asked for an explanation in ever increasing frustration. I was membership secretary but resigned saying I felt I couldn’t recommend membership of the BHS because of the way they treated their volunteers but I was happy to still help the commitee. My beef is with Head Office not the local branch. They have responded by telling me my participation is no longer required on the commitee. My friends on the commitee have all said how awful but so far none seem to want to back me up. I feel I have been well and truly stomped on by a large charitable organisation and forced out because I have made a complaint. If this is ok for them to do then surely it just stops anyone making a valid complaint. Has anyone got any advice from a legal perspective. I can hardly ring the BHS free legal helpline can I!!!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Perhaps ring The Charity Commission for advice?

 

[Rowreach]

Perhaps ring The Charity Commission for advice?

In my experience (Pony Club and Charity Commission) you'll be on a hiding to nothing.

When the BHS asked for feedback a couple of years ago, and I gave it, they wanted me to discuss my concerns - with the very person responsible for them.

These organisations are just big cliques I'm afraid.

 

[vanrim]

In my experience (Pony Club and Charity Commission) you'll be on a hiding to nothing.

When the BHS asked for feedback a couple of years ago, and I gave it, they wanted me to discuss my concerns - with the very person responsible for them.

These organisations are just big cliques I'm afraid.

Interesting. I suppose those of us prepared to make a stand are in a minority. You should be proud that you aren’t easily swayed.

 

[vanrim]

Perhaps ring The Charity Commission for advice?

I will write to them with my concerns so it’s on record but doubt anything will come of it. . I feel that the BHS have “sacked” me to avoid dealing with my complaint.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Could you bring your concern up at the next BHS AGM? I have never been to one, despite getting an inviatation every year, so I'm not sure whether AOB has to be tabled in advance, notified to the Chair at the beginning of the meeting, or can be brought up at the end.

 

[TheMule]

You have suffered no loss of income/ money etc so I don't really see whst you would be trying to achieve? It sounds an unfortunate situation but not a legal one

 

[SusieT]

If you complain about everything without being constructive why would you think you would continue with the organisation?

 

[vanrim]

If you complain about everything without being constructive why would you think you would continue with the organisation?

I have not complained about everything without being constructive. I have expressed my horror at the way they have treated another volunteer member of the commitee and asked them to give an explanation as to why they chose to print a letter from someone ridiculing her company. In spite of repeated requests they have chosen not to respond but have instead told me my services are not required on the commitee without actually consulting any of the actual commitee members. I am posting here because it would appear to me that if any large organisation or charity is allowed to “sack” complainers rather than responding it clearly would put anyone off complaining about more serious matters. However you are quite right that I have no desire to continue giving up my valuable time volunteering for such an organisation. My time over the last 6 years would have been better spent volunteering for one of the other charities I support.

 

[vanrim]

You have suffered no loss of income/ money etc so I don't really see whst you would be trying to achieve? It sounds an unfortunate situation but not a legal one

No I have not suffered any loss. My question is rather “can a large charity remove a volunteer to avoid providing a written response to concerns raised?” I have volunteered and raised funds for them for 6 years so I am somewhat upset to be treated this way. They have a code that volunteers must adhere to. As far as I am aware making a complaint does not warrant being removed from the commitee. I think my next step will be to ask which clause of the volunteer code they think I have violated and to ask for them to send me their complaints procedure.

 

[JulesRules]

Well if you were an employee and you raised a similar concern they would have to respond - usually under the grievance policy, or maybe bullying/harrassment.

For the info of others you generally can raise a grievance about the way others have been treated if it makes you uncomfortable or unhappy. After all you might be next and in this case it seems you were!

Is there a volunteers handbook or similar and is there a similar process laid out in there? If so, is that a route you could go down.

If that fails I would write to the CEO or highest level and ask for an explanation of both the treatment of the others and yourself. If that doesn't get a reply I would follow it up with another letter talking about reputational damage and veiled threats of press and going public etc. You might not achieve anything but it will be satisfying.

On another note I just want to say good for you for sticking up for others. There are too many people in this world that turn a blind eye and take an "I'm alright Jack" attitude when others are treated badly. The people saying you have suffered no loss ( do your loss of status and reputation count for nothing?) or that you have complained about everything - I wonder if they have ever needed someone to stick up for them?

If nothing else take comfort in the fact that you have the high moral ground!

 

[Farmer Chalk]

And a copy of their whistleblowing policy.....every company now has to have one and it should include details of how a company has to legally protect the whistleblower and not place them in a position which subsequently becomes untenable.
From your comments it sounds as though you could consider yourself as a potential whistleblower....

 

[twiggy2]

I was membership secretary but resigned saying I felt I couldn’t recommend membership of the BHS because of the way they treated their volunteers

If you can't recommend membership of a organisation that runs on memberships, such as BHS, why would you want to remain as part of the volunteer team and why would you expect them to want someone with that view to stay within their volunteer team.
If it had been worded that you felt things needed restructuring, the volunteer team should recieve more respect and support etc etc that's different but it's a very strong line you have taken on here.
Legalities I have no idea where you stand but I would hazard a guess that that sentence may put you on rocky ground.

 

[Theocat]

I agree with the whistleblowing.

You have raised a complaint about how other people are treated: the BHS (exactly as any other organisation) can't and won't engage with you in discussion about someone else, and if the individuals concerned won't complain or back you up, there isn't anywhere for this to go unless there has been something illegal.

You also don't know - because they can't and won't tell you - what they might have done without your knowledge, including contacting those individuals concerned.

I am sorry you are in this position after all your hard work, but it really needs the involvement of the individuals concerned before an organisation can act, unless It's something like theft / fraud / breach of safeguarding / anything else with legal ramifications and a paper trail.

 

[JulesRules]

The above is nonsense.

I work for a MAT (multi academy trust) and our whistleblowing policy gives us the right to be informed of what is being done about our concerns and also protects us against detrimental treatment as a result of raising a concern in good faith.

OP - why not try Citizens Advice Bureau?

 

[hopscotch bandit]

Not quite the same things but along the lines of 'they all stick together and back each other up' . My friends 15 yr membership of a riding club (same club that I was with as a member) was terminated as she had replied to someone on social media about inadequate fencing on a boundary ride at the riding club she belonged to which led to the driveway and main road. This had followed a spate of attacks on her horse by aggressive dogs and she complained that the gate off the ride leading to the driveway and main road was not hinged on but instead had broken and leaning against the fence and if a horse/pony had bolted they would have gone straight out onto the main road. Because of the reply she had put on social media to someone who had also criticized the gate (or lack of it) her membership was terminated and she was informed in writing. She had been told it was a unanimous decision by the committee however after speaking to three or four committee members who she was friendly with who told her they didn't even know she had been suspended she went to British Riding Clubs to see if there was some adjudication system but she was told in no uncertain terms there were not prepared to get involved! She was terribly upset at the time as she had given a lot of voluntary help to the club and had advertised a lot of their events on social media as her BF at the time worked there.

 

[honetpot]

The above is nonsense.

I work for a MAT (multi academy trust) and our whistleblowing policy gives us the right to be informed of what is being done about our concerns and also protects us against detrimental treatment as a result of raising a concern in good faith.

OP - why not try Citizens Advice Bureau?

I would have to agree with this. I would ask to see everything they have on you under data protection laws. It may be redacted but at least you will have an idea if something has actually be done. In fact if there is no record its shows that nothing was done.
If someone is bullied in any way its often very difficult for the person being bullied, victimised etc, to stand up for themselves and we have a duty to report. If no action is taken you have to wonder if the people in charge are actually aware what they are doing wrong.
I worked for an organisation that had no idea what guidelines and laws they were not complying with and had great difficulty in understanding how serious it was

 

[Theocat]

The above is nonsense.

I work for a MAT (multi academy trust) and our whistleblowing policy gives us the right to be informed of what is being done about our concerns and also protects us against detrimental treatment as a result of raising a concern in good faith.

OP - why not try Citizens Advice Bureau?

Except I would not be remotely surprised if this is not being treated as whistleblowing. I agree that OP should see their policy, but from what has been described, I can imagine they might not treat it as such...

Not every complaint is whistleblowing.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Will your local Committtee write to CEO on your behalf/that of the other committee member, or is the local cttee split into factions?

 

[McFluff]

Well if you were an employee and you raised a similar concern they would have to respond - usually under the grievance policy, or maybe bullying/harrassment.

For the info of others you generally can raise a grievance about the way others have been treated if it makes you uncomfortable or unhappy. After all you might be next and in this case it seems you were!

Is there a volunteers handbook or similar and is there a similar process laid out in there? If so, is that a route you could go down.

If that fails I would write to the CEO or highest level and ask for an explanation of both the treatment of the others and yourself. If that doesn't get a reply I would follow it up with another letter talking about reputational damage and veiled threats of press and going public etc. You might not achieve anything but it will be satisfying.

On another note I just want to say good for you for sticking up for others. There are too many people in this world that turn a blind eye and take an "I'm alright Jack" attitude when others are treated badly. The people saying you have suffered no loss ( do your loss of status and reputation count for nothing?) or that you have complained about everything - I wonder if they have ever needed someone to stick up for them?

If nothing else take comfort in the fact that you have the high moral ground!

I agree with this.

I think that the world is a better place when people are prepared to speak up on behalf of others, and it is perfectly reasonable to ask for an explanation if someone doesn't appear to have been treated in line with an organisations stated values. Sadly though, as you have discovered, even if others agree privately, many prefer a quieter life and will not speak up - leaving you suddenly feeling very alone.

FWIW volunteers have much the same 'employment rights' as an employee - with the obvious omission of pay/remuneration. You should have volunteer policies to use in this situation - and to me, this does sound like whistleblowing. You are raising a genuine concern about behaviour in the organisation.

I think that the BHS has a board? If so, I would first approach the CEO and ask for a meeting. Assuming that they meet with you, try and explain what it is in the behaviour that concerned you and what you would have expected to see (although this should be obvious really!). If the CEO won't engage with you, then approach the Chair of the Board. They have overall responsibility.

I was at a CPD session just last week when they were outlining recent research into large scale company scandels. The common theme - people not being encouraged or enabled (or in some cases willing) to speak up when they saw poor behaviour. That poor behaviour then becomes the norm, then you have a worsening circle, and nobody is then able to press the stop button. Do not ignore the seemingly minor bad behaviours - culture is vital to protect the ongoing integrity of the business.

You probably could call the helpline as it is not outsourced to a legal firm???

Good luck.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I had cause recently to ring the legal helpline, it is outsourced, if the query warrants it. I got excellent advice which would have been very expensive, if it had been a private arrangement.

 

[Rollin]

In my experience (Pony Club and Charity Commission) you'll be on a hiding to nothing.

When the BHS asked for feedback a couple of years ago, and I gave it, they wanted me to discuss my concerns - with the very person responsible for them.

These organisations are just big cliques I'm afraid.

Exactly this. Many members of a certain breed society, myself included, have given up writing to the Charity Commission. Complaints, conflict of interest (3 family members on Council), constantly changing rules and regulations without informing the members/breeders, failure to reply to questions, discrimination - banning non-UK residents from Council, that went all the way to EU Commission, I could go on. It got us nowhere.

I too had issues with BHS, when years ago they informed DEFRA that the majority of horse owners in the UK where in favour of Horse Passports, when in fact the majority of breed societies and their members opposed horse passports. ( I know that because I wrote to DEFRA and asked to see ALL responses to consultation). BHS saw it as a way of making money, Lord Astor said as much in the House of Lords.

I am all in favour of supporting Uk Charities but they need to demonstrate that they are truly democratic in their treatment of members/volunteers.

 

[Cecile]

Exactly this. Many members of a certain breed society, myself included, have given up writing to the Charity Commission. Complaints, conflict of interest (3 family members on Council), constantly changing rules and regulations without informing the members/breeders, failure to reply to questions, discrimination - banning non-UK residents from Council, that went all the way to EU Commission, I could go on. It got us nowhere.

I too had issues with BHS, when years ago they informed DEFRA that the majority of horse owners in the UK where in favour of Horse Passports, when in fact the majority of breed societies and their members opposed horse passports. ( I know that because I wrote to DEFRA and asked to see ALL responses to consultation). BHS saw it as a way of making money, Lord Astor said as much in the House of Lords.

I am all in favour of supporting Uk Charities but they need to demonstrate that they are truly democratic in their treatment of members/volunteers.

Passports are a giant cash cow, with millions made in profit it should be shown what this money has been used for as the system doesn't even work

I also met a volunteer for the BHS who was not a happy bunny due to how she and others were being treated, I don't know how it all turned out but they were hitting brick walls at every turn but seemed determined to be heard, I was quite surprised with what she was telling me, it was a while ago

They need to get their act together as too many people are saying the same or similar things about how they are being treated, you can't learn from mistakes if no-one will listen

 

[Frumpoon]

Sounds like a question of poor governance and that is everybody's concern, not just a matter of personal differences. Well done you for taking this up, nobody should be above reproach

 

[sywell]

Many years ago I was on a BHS county Committee and the member who did the riding test, refused to accept a well known riding school who said there would be no road work as part of the test from the current year. The member eventually resigned and a good helper lost.. Many dedicated volunteers do have conflict with their organisation but at least a written explanation is deserved.

 

[sywell]

As a passport issuer for registered horses for 20 years the issue of passports does provide income but the running of the database to DEFRA requirements is an expensive business and clearly PIOs are not going to do it at a loss. The cost of registered horses being identified as a foal at foot is a very costly process even though all foals are DNA parentage tested. For a part bred where the sire or dam is graded by the society I do not think you should have to be a member to get a passport. It is irrelevent wether horse owners support horse passports or not as it is an EU requirement and even when we leave if you take a horse into the EU you will have to have a passport that complies with their rules.

 

[Bow1973]

I will write to them with my concerns so it’s on record but doubt anything will come of it. . I feel that the BHS have “sacked” me to avoid dealing with my complaint.

Sorry to hear you had to give up your role and then they did this but this is what they do, attempt to silence us!
Dont give up keep persueing, your not they only one and they do this stop people only now they have done it to quite alot of people (me included) and if we all pull together we can make a difference!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

So sorry you're in this position; it sounds an awful situation, but that's the horsey world for you..........

Unfortunately this is the way things are with a great many Voluntary and/or Charity set-ups. Way too much arse-licking going on and people with agendas getting involved for their own gain.

We've all heard the saying "shutting stable door when horse has bolted...", but TBH (sorry being frank here) I'm not sure that putting it on here was/is the greatest wisdom; basically is tantamount to making an announcement on the BBC news; someone from your area is bound to know you've put it up on here and it might not help in the overall scheme of things.

But anyway...... deed is done now.

 

[JanetGeorge]

Sadly, this is SO common now with the BHS that it is not at all surprising. Have you read the thread on it - https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/another-british-horse-society-c-k-up.767675/

I WOULD ring the legal helpline. I'm pretty sure it IS confidential - but I also think they will be giving the BHS a 'summary' of the calls they get - and the advice they give. Maybe - one day - the CE will wake up to the damage she is doing (if she cares at all.)

 

[Red-1]

Sadly, this is SO common now with the BHS that it is not at all surprising. Have you read the thread on it - https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/another-british-horse-society-c-k-up.767675/

I WOULD ring the legal helpline. I'm pretty sure it IS confidential - but I also think they will be giving the BHS a 'summary' of the calls they get - and the advice they give. Maybe - one day - the CE will wake up to the damage she is doing (if she cares at all.)

I too would ring the helpline, as it is indeed outsourced. But, when I called they asked for full details of the person with whom I had the issue, and said that if they had ever represented them then they could not take my case as it would be a conflict of interests. I would suspect that they would therefore think that going against the BHS would be a conflict of interests, but wonder in this case if they would then have to pass the case to another solicitor?

As there is no loss of income I am not sure what you would get, but membership means you can consult a solicitor so I would do so, so that you have your questions answered.

ETA - I just noticed that this thread was from earlier in the year, how did it go OP?