BHS Loan agreement.....

emilyw

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I have always used an amended version (to suit my needs) when loaning my horse out. Think it pretty much covers everything.

Some say its not worth the paper its written on so not sure in all honesty. I have been very lucky with the 2 loan homes my boy had (he is now back with me).
 

_daisy_

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it seems ok with a bit of tweaking for individual needs, but its not worth the paper its written on but good to have it set down in paper should anything happen.
 

hellspells

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Thank you both of you.

I have just spoken to my advocate who said pretty much the same as you, so he is going to draw one up for me.
 

TGM

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[ QUOTE ]
Some say its not worth the paper its written on so not sure in all honesty.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think in some respects they may be right - for example, it can be difficult to enforce the notice period before the horse is returned by the loaners. However, I would hope the fact there is a written loan agreement would bear some weight if there was ever a claim to ownership of the animal by the loaner, or am I being too optimistic!?

Having all the conditions written down on paper also does much to clarify things for both parties, and there is less chance of miscommunication about who is responsible for what and what the duties and expectation of both parties are.

My daughter's old pony is now on her second loan home, and I have used an amended version of the BHS agreement both times.
 

mis_max

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Anyone got an info on a breeding loan agreement and the usual terms?

I'm hoping to loan my Irish draught and would allow her to be usedfor breeding if I could get an agreement to protect all parties
 

OWLIE185

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One thing that needs to be made clear is that the draft BHS loan agreament is there to give you a framework for the loan agreament that is required.

However once, you have ammended it to your own requirements it should be used as the foundation of the real agreament which you should then have drawn up by a specialist equine solicitor so as to make it enforcable on the parties concerned.
 

Dizzykizzy

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I don't think the agreements are enforceable, you have to hope your loaner is honest enough if push comes to shove.
Our little horse has been out on loan for 20 months, she was treated like a princess and in the main I can't complain about her standard of care BUT things turned very nasty when we asked for her back.
She now has serious travelling issues which she never had and rather devalues her as a competition horse, she went with almost new Jeffries bridle and martingale, came back with a cheap bridle, martingale to follow....guess what? It never did.
From my own personal experiences I would rather pay to draw up a proper solicitor's agreement than trust anybody now.
 

JanetGeorge

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[ QUOTE ]
I don't think the agreements are enforceable, you have to hope your loaner is honest enough if push comes to shove.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry - but that's tosh! (And I speak as the person who drafted the original BHS loan agreement - and had it thoroughly checked by good solicitors!) I have since amended it for my brood mare loan agreements - fortunately have never had a loan 'go wrong' - but I'm confident it would stand up in court if it came to that.

In fact, you don't NEED a formal contract to prove a case in court - just solid 'evidence' of both parties intentions and agreement. I know - because (very unwisely) I accepted a brood mare as a gift some years ago without a formal agreement. Six months down the line - once foal was safely born - former owner reneged and tried to claim that the mare was on livery and tried to get it back. Fortunately I had kept all e-mail corresponcence between us (there were very good reasons I was NOT prepared to let her have the mare and foal back - even if she'd paid the 'livery'!)

After unsuccessfully trying to steal the mare (heavily pregnant with a second foal) and the foal (which was by then a yearling) she took me to court. I won!
 

mis_max

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Janet - can I ask what would be the usual terms for a broodmare loan - as I posted above, would consider it for mine if I could find the right person but I wonder...

- who pays for what in terms of vet / stud etc
- what if they don't take or hold
- assume the agreement would be for at least 2 years?

Any other major issues other than a normal loan situation?
 

Dizzykizzy

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It might be tosh but I am not willing to take it through the small claims court to test it.
All I know is I have a semi ruined horse with bits of expensive tack missing and a very bruised faith in human nature!
It may be worth trawling it through court if it is the horse at stake but what would I stand to achieve if I tried?
People should be very clear about what they are agreeing to and sorry, but you really can't trust anyone.
 

JanetGeorge

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[ QUOTE ]
Janet - can I ask what would be the usual terms for a broodmare loan - as I posted above, would consider it for mine if I could find the right person but I wonder...

- who pays for what in terms of vet / stud etc
- what if they don't take or hold
- assume the agreement would be for at least 2 years?

Any other major issues other than a normal loan situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

All 'details' in a broodmare loan are negotiable between both parties. I have two on loan (to me) at present - and one went home last year after a 'one foal' loan.

Of the other two, one is now in foal with her 2nd (for me) and the other we are just getting in foal - and will probably be a 'one foal' loan - although the agreement has scope to be extended by mutual consent.

In my loans, I pay ALL costs in relation to getting the mare in foal and caring for her - and the foal. If the mare is going back after foal weaned - and the owner wants her in foal - then the owner pays the costs of getting her in foal.

The owner insures the mare - but I cover public liability (obviously I have a stud policy that covers all my horses). The mares are not covered for vet's fees, and if they don't get in foal they are returned.

ANY loan depends on both parties checking the other out thoroughly - and good communication! The owners of 'my' mares are welcome to visit at any time - without notice.

But you DO have to be careful - I know of loans that have gone wrong - where loan mares were NOT cared for properly etc. I take it as a great personal compliment that swhen the owner of the mare that has gone home was approached by another breeder, she told the other breeder that if she put her mare out on loan again, then I would have 1st refusal.

Agreements are normally from just before the start of the pregancy, to weaning of the foal (so approx. 18 months.) I speak to my owners after the foal is born and agree at that time whether the agreement will be extended for another foal (or another 18 months.)
 

JanetGeorge

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It might be tosh but I am not willing to take it through the small claims court to test it.
All I know is I have a semi ruined horse with bits of expensive tack missing and a very bruised faith in human nature!
It may be worth trawling it through court if it is the horse at stake but what would I stand to achieve if I tried?
People should be very clear about what they are agreeing to and sorry, but you really can't trust anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd agree you can't trust people implicitly - that's why you need to check and recheck - and have a detailed agreement. I'm sorry to hear yours didn't work too well - but I suspect that's because you either misjudged the loanee - or gave them 'the benefit of the doubt'!

You CAN'T be SURE a loaner will ride and care for a horse in the way you'd like - so regular, unannounced checks are pretty vital.
 
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