BHS "On the Move" lorry

[PAK]

How do propose you get all this sort of thing agreed with the members without running up bills .



That’s more like it my head was hurting .

The same way other charities do it. Not rocket science

 

[PAK]

£185,000 written off over 5 years, £37,000 per year. Not £185k multiplied by 5 - which is still not £1.38mil.
This is the capital cost, not the running costs, but still not the figure which keeps being bandied round.

May I suggest that you write with a Freedom of Information request to find out the complete cost of the lorry, driver, maintenance costs etc? Then we might be on the same page.

 

[PAK]

Remember that the accounts are "historical".

To quote the accounts -
At 31 December 2017 there was a capital commitment amounting to £138,000 in respect of


the commissioning of a fitted out, promotional and educational heavy goods vehicle to be


launched in May 2018 and used as part of the BHS on the Move initiative.


The 138,00 was the commissioning costs - not the total cost.

 

[ruth83]

May I suggest that you write with a Freedom of Information request to find out the complete cost of the lorry, driver, maintenance costs etc? Then we might be on the same page.

Why a freedom of information request? I have just asked for the information I want. A little difficult to lie about the difference between 1.38mil and £185k when the accounts are scrutinised by the external auditors who found a £10 discrepancy in local committee accounts last year! (Quickly rectified I hasten to add, a receipt not filed properly).
The running costs are estimated at £38k per year without the driver. I don't currently have details of the drivers salary but I would expect it to reflect their level of qualification, the fact that they may be expected to stay away from home in the lorry for several days at a time and the level of responsibility attached to the position.
The cost is estimated as this is year 1 of running the lorry so they are based on expectations, I would imagine including a contingency fund for any untoward issues.

To clarify my position, I am a BHS volunteer. One who has worked hard to promote the BHS and make positive changes to how it works in my area. I don't necessarily agree with how everything works, but one thing I regularly see is member disinterest. I often struggle to get 0.25% of the membership in my area to attend an event!
My area has used the lorry a few times now and I have NEVER spoken to as many people as I have at the 2 shows I was at with it.

I'm really pleased that members are taking an interest, but some of the information needs clarification.

 

[Chica]

Having posted my increasing concerns about the current direction of the BHS in my first ever post on any forum just recently . I m now moved to write again on this new thread . I do not really understand the point being made above regarding increasing interest shown as a result of the lorry . If this is true then yes of course it is great but how much increase in interest has there been in reality ? Is this increase enough to justify the extremely high cost which from what I'm reading is just on another level of crazy monopoly money . I can't believe that the powers that be can even begin to think this kind of outlay is acceptable from hard earned charitable funds . The bottom line for me is, what is the real advantage of this expensive PR stunt ? I heard from a friend that she attended an event in Cleveland in which the horsebox was present with several expensive staff members in attendance using the box as a classroom . Apparently it was freezing cold with no toilet , while a excellent classroom was on site with all appropriate training facilities ( no driver required and possibly only one trainer). The true cost is to me simply mind boggling and the advantages minimal. I also had a few mates who went to Badminton saying it was a bit of a white elephant, they said they were drawn to it out of curiousity and then came away thinking the BHS clearly have more money than sense . Maybe any initial interest shown is only this first curiosity which will ultimately transpire into disbelief and negativity. Don't let me get started on the Horse Puppet thing , my mates had a few choice words to say about that too , which included embarrassing, extremely expensive , cringworthy and ill conceived (apparently it cost £20 000 possible more ) and now probable stored in a cupboard is this another expensive publicity stunt ? I really will not be parting with my hard earned cash for it to be spent on this stuff in the future . I will cancel my membership and will put my money into less wasteful local horse charities who really do focus on horse welfare and good quality training to promote that welfare . I feel better having off loaded some my feelings about this stuff . Thank you .

 

[PAK]

Why a freedom of information request? I have just asked for the information I want. A little difficult to lie about the difference between 1.38mil and £185k when the accounts are scrutinised by the external auditors who found a £10 discrepancy in local committee accounts last year! (Quickly rectified I hasten to add, a receipt not filed properly).
The running costs are estimated at £38k per year without the driver. I don't currently have details of the drivers salary but I would expect it to reflect their level of qualification, the fact that they may be expected to stay away from home in the lorry for several days at a time and the level of responsibility attached to the position.
The cost is estimated as this is year 1 of running the lorry so they are based on expectations, I would imagine including a contingency fund for any untoward issues.

To clarify my position, I am a BHS volunteer. One who has worked hard to promote the BHS and make positive changes to how it works in my area. I don't necessarily agree with how everything works, but one thing I regularly see is member disinterest. I often struggle to get 0.25% of the membership in my area to attend an event!
My area has used the lorry a few times now and I have NEVER spoken to as many people as I have at the 2 shows I was at with it.

I'm really pleased that members are taking an interest, but some of the information needs clarification.

Yes , I am glad people are taking a more active interest in the proposed changes to the constitution. Please do check the accounts again - the 185K was commissioning cost not the cost of the vehicle nor the full cost including driver etc. I too have been a hard working volunteer, member, committee member and Chair. Our area has a very active membership with good relationships & joint events with Riding Clubs and BD etc.

 

[PAK]

Having posted my increasing concerns about the current direction of the BHS in my first ever post on any forum just recently . I m now moved to write again on this new thread . I do not really understand the point being made above regarding increasing interest shown as a result of the lorry . If this is true then yes of course it is great but how much increase in interest has there been in reality ? Is this increase enough to justify the extremely high cost which from what I'm reading is just on another level of crazy monopoly money . I can't believe that the powers that be can even begin to think this kind of outlay is acceptable from hard earned charitable funds . The bottom line for me is, what is the real advantage of this expensive PR stunt ? I heard from a friend that she attended an event in Cleveland in which the horsebox was present with several expensive staff members in attendance using the box as a classroom . Apparently it was freezing cold with no toilet , while a excellent classroom was on site with all appropriate training facilities ( no driver required and possibly only one trainer). The true cost is to me simply mind boggling and the advantages minimal. I also had a few mates who went to Badminton saying it was a bit of a white elephant, they said they were drawn to it out of curiousity and then came away thinking the BHS clearly have more money than sense . Maybe any initial interest shown is only this first curiosity which will ultimately transpire into disbelief and negativity. Don't let me get started on the Horse Puppet thing , my mates had a few choice words to say about that too , which included embarrassing, extremely expensive , cringworthy and ill conceived (apparently it cost £20 000 possible more ) and now probable stored in a cupboard is this another expensive publicity stunt ? I really will not be parting with my hard earned cash for it to be spent on this stuff in the future . I will cancel my membership and will put my money into less wasteful local horse charities who really do focus on horse welfare and good quality training to promote that welfare . I feel better having off loaded some my feelings about this stuff . Thank you .

Please consider staying and helping to put the sense back into the BHS.

 

[ruth83]

Yes , I am glad people are taking a more active interest in the proposed changes to the constitution. Please do check the accounts again - the 185K was commissioning cost not the cost of the vehicle nor the full cost including driver etc. I too have been a hard working volunteer, member, committee member and Chair. Our area has a very active membership with good relationships & joint events with Riding Clubs and BD etc.

I have not claimed that the £185k includes the running costs or driver costs.
You still have not answered my original question, where are you pulling the £1.38million figure from?

 

[honetpot]

Why a freedom of information request? I have just asked for the information I want. A little difficult to lie about the difference between 1.38mil and £185k when the accounts are scrutinised by the external auditors who found a £10 discrepancy in local committee accounts last year! (Quickly rectified I hasten to add, a receipt not filed properly).
The running costs are estimated at £38k per year without the driver. I don't currently have details of the drivers salary but I would expect it to reflect their level of qualification, the fact that they may be expected to stay away from home in the lorry for several days at a time and the level of responsibility attached to the position.
The cost is estimated as this is year 1 of running the lorry so they are based on expectations, I would imagine including a contingency fund for any untoward issues.

To clarify my position, I am a BHS volunteer. One who has worked hard to promote the BHS and make positive changes to how it works in my area. I don't necessarily agree with how everything works, but one thing I regularly see is member disinterest. I often struggle to get 0.25% of the membership in my area to attend an event!
My area has used the lorry a few times now and I have NEVER spoken to as many people as I have at the 2 shows I was at with it.

I'm really pleased that members are taking an interest, but some of the information needs clarification.

I am really pleased that the lorry has been used, really. I am really pleased that people came to speak you at shows.
I appreciate that a shiny new lorry would grab the attention, but would a smaller 3.5tonne that anyone could drive, with less servicing and maintenance costs with the addition of pop out marques have been, more useful, cheaper to run, not need a HGV driver with all the paperwork that goes with it.
After all the BHS is not running an F1 team, so if it is really going to cost £38K a year + the cost of a driver there is something sadly wrong. As we do not know the business case before purchasing the lorry, we have no idea what the cost comparisons were.
I know this is used, but a smarter one of these.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-...=item3fb3b07d04:g:4JMAAOSwC85cCUPQ:rk:38:pf:0
And if its 3.5 tonne you can drive it on a normal licence.


As to members disinterest. That is just what happens everywhere from the village hall, to PC , RC show or anything you need bodies for, and you can not expect people to be interested if they are not involved directly, I have been on enough committee to know this. The fact that they are turning down help from people with knowledge and proven commitment is even more worrying.
If you can show me anything provided before this week which explains in the proposed changes in any detail and the reasons for them I would like a copy, because I am a blooming good googler and I couldn't find them. So how can you expect people to be bothered if they are not engaged?

 

[Rosiejazzandpia]

I'm a BHS member purely for the insurance benefits but I'm now rethinking my membership for next year.
Are they transporting horses? If not why do they need an enormous fancy brand new lorry when you could hire a marquee and do the same thing?

 

[Honey08]

We were parked next to it at Badminton. it was a lovely looking box, but all the seats and tea nad coffee etc were in a tent next to it anyway, so we never went in it.

 

[PAK]

Dear BHS –

This morning when I was mucking out, I got a text from our bank. Our joint account was overdrawn.

They told me about some shocking payments that I had no idea you had made. Lorries, drivers, puppets, computer systems, lots of other fancy things like uniforms, and designer gins- all kinds of things that we have never discussed and I thought we were “one team”.

When we got together, I believed that you genuinely cared for me. That our relationship wasn’t just all about the money. And that we shared a common love of horses. But now I see that isn’t true. You’re spending so much money, without my knowing, on things that don’t really matter to me.

After I finished the call with the bank, and all the mucking out, I checked the horses and sat down with a coffee. I was rather tempted to add a large dollop of brandy to pick my spirits up but I did not. I opened the newspaper and there on the front page was a picture of you at a fancy place in another country hob-nobbing.

I am off out to see a lawyer now. I am getting a divorce.

Your former "better half"
A. Member

Read more at https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/bhs-meeting-update.771333/page-3#WlC2deVCZTX0ii4y.99

 

[onemoretime]

Mixed feeling too, went on it at Devon County, lovely to sit in comfort and could have a cup of tea/coffee if wanted, but only accessible up narrow steep steps. I'm sure they could have done the same with a good trailer type conversion which would have been a lot less money and could of been more 'ground level' with an opening side. Hate to think how much was spent on this with pop out sides etc and full living from the cab but noticed a lot of the trim inside was loose. Also seemed a bit weird having the little horse windows lol !! From the outside we did wonder if it was just a rest area for staff so bigger signage needed perhaps.

the cost of the lorry I believe was 138k plus a great deal more to kit it out!

 

[onemoretime]

Where has this figure come from? It's openly available in the accounts. The capital cost of the lorry was £185,000.

I think that includes the kiting out of the lorry doesn't it.

 

[onemoretime]

We were parked next to it at Badminton. it was a lovely looking box, but all the seats and tea nad coffee etc were in a tent next to it anyway, so we never went in it.

Same here!

 

[onemoretime]

May I suggest that you write with a Freedom of Information request to find out the complete cost of the lorry, driver, maintenance costs etc? Then we might be on the same page.

Don't forget there was also a smaller lorry purchased for, I understand, 50k plus a hell of a lot more money to kit it out!

 

[Orangehorse]

I'm a BHS member purely for the insurance benefits but I'm now rethinking my membership for next year.
Are they transporting horses? If not why do they need an enormous fancy brand new lorry when you could hire a marquee and do the same thing?

Hiring a marquee is quite an expensive business. I can see the point of having this lorry, as it is a travelling advertisement, and I daresay that any large vehicle like this is going to be around the same cost, and it is rather difficult to sell an old trade-stand type vehicle, whereas a horsebox should always have a good value. I don't know who drives it, but presumably there are staff members who have the necessary qualifications available anyway and they wouldn't have to employ someone just to drive it.

 

[Rowreach]

Hiring a marquee is quite an expensive business. I can see the point of having this lorry, as it is a travelling advertisement, and I daresay that any large vehicle like this is going to be around the same cost, and it is rather difficult to sell an old trade-stand type vehicle, whereas a horsebox should always have a good value. I don't know who drives it, but presumably there are staff members who have the necessary qualifications available anyway and they wouldn't have to employ someone just to drive it.

They were advertising for a full time person to do just that.

 

[J&S]

I well remember seeing the first photographs of this lorry in the BHS magazine. My immediate thoughts were: that must have cost very serious money! My next thoughts were that if it was to truly travel around and meet people, gather interest ( and money) for the cause, it would not be able to get any near where I live. The idea of it driving around all the lanes and country roads in Devon and Cornwall is out of the question. All very well to make a big splash at the major horse events but how about just a touring version to park up in supermarkets, pop out to small shows and gather some new members who may not have even heard of the BHS? Perhaps its just a tax loss!

 

[Velcrobum]

Hiring a marquee is quite an expensive business. I can see the point of having this lorry, as it is a travelling advertisement, and I daresay that any large vehicle like this is going to be around the same cost, and it is rather difficult to sell an old trade-stand type vehicle, whereas a horsebox should always have a good value. I don't know who drives it, but presumably there are staff members who have the necessary qualifications available anyway and they wouldn't have to employ someone just to drive it.

The problem is that it is not a horsebox but a "classroom" it does not have a ramp.

 

[honetpot]

The lorry is HGV, it has a private number plate, and will have to been run under HGV rules, not like a private 7.5tonne.

There is no budget from there driver or the frequent servicing it will need. This wouldn't be a problem, if like most commercial lorries its was going to earn its keep. We know its not stalled for horses, we have had picture of the outside but we have no idea how its kitted out and how effective it will be as classroom. Its yet another an other secret.
I have asked for costing's and been ignored.

There are LGV under 3,5tonne that are used as workshops for moter racing that would have been far more flexible, these have marques attached for race days. They already pay someone to set up for exhibitions.
http://ssd.uk.net/british-horse-society-new-forest-2018/