Big Bucks has a new jockey

KautoStar1

KautoStar1

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I don’t buy this. Surely if there was ever a time to ride this great horse its now. If he wins, he’s great, if he loses its because he’s been injured.

Paul Nicholls does seem to have a habit of publically humiliating his young jockeys.

Whatever the reason, to say your stable jockey doesn’t have the confidence is hardly likely to improve your stable jockeys confidence in the long run and must surely raise doubts among punters and owners.
 
I don't agree with your summation of PN's statement, he went out of his way to explain the reasoning, and he is correct to get a jockey now rather than at a later date.
I don't know which horses AP and Ruby are lining up, but I think that they would take the ride if they considered it a shoe-in.
The horse has been off a long time, we don't know if he is certain to make the line up, we have to assume he is sound at the moment. He is older than he was, and one has to think, slower.
 
The owner has at least as much say as the trainer- he who pays the piper calls the tune- and if I was the owner of a racehorse, paying all the fees etc., I'd want the best jockey available to ride it......
 
stormox said:
The owner has at least as much say as the trainer- he who pays the piper calls the tune- and if I was the owner of a racehorse, paying all the fees etc., I'd want the best jockey available to ride it......
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Don't think that's how it works with the likes of Paul Nichols, or an yother big trainer and I don't think anyone is saying STD
is the best jockey available. In an ideal world I'm sure Ruby would have been their first choice but that wasn't an option, the same with AP. I think what Paul Nichols has said on the decision is probably true and let's just hope he gets back on a course and has lost nothing for his absence.
 
If Annie Power goes for the World Hurdle at the festival I expect Ruby will be riding her. He seems to be rather impressed with her and when you consider that he's ridden Quevega, Big Bucks and Hurricane Fly that is some compliment.
 
TelH said:
If Annie Power goes for the World Hurdle at the festival I expect Ruby will be riding her. He seems to be rather impressed with her and when you consider that he's ridden Quevega, Big Bucks and Hurricane Fly that is some compliment.
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I don't imagine he was ever going to ride for Paul Nicholls regardless, and who can blame him with Willie Mullins to ride for. If Annie Power and Big Bucks both run in the world hurdle which one Ruby rides I don't think will be anything to do with which one he thinks is the best....
 
Well the impression given from the BB camp was that Ruby was always their preferred choice for obvious reasons but clearly he is committed to Willie Mullins horses in the long term and therefore unable to agree to ride BB until he knows what Willie is likely to run in the World Hurdle. And therefore it is right that BB has a jockey in place for his comeback so that there is some consistency.

But that’s not my point. It’s the way Nichols has clearly made out that its Daryl that the issue (which it may well be if he is not confident to ride the horse) but he washes his dirty linen in public quite a lot making quite sure the blame is never attached to him. And his point about DJ not being the yards retained jockey, just their main jockey. What does that mean ??? If that’s not a side swipe I don’t know what is. He likes to play at being the open and honest trainer but it often comes across as being a bit childish in a its not my fault type of way. He even said he thought Daryl would be fine about it when he found out, implying that he was writing it in his column before he’d told his employee. Put it this way, if my boss publically humiliated me like I would have serious trust issues in the future.

What I don’t get is DJ’s reasoning behind not wanting the ride, if indeed that’s the truth. That’s the bit I find a bit suspect.

Having said that I think S T-D is more in the RW mould and will suit the horse well.
 
KautoStar1 said:
And his point about DJ not being the yards retained jockey, just their main jockey.

What I don’t get is DJ’s reasoning behind not wanting the ride, if indeed that’s the truth. That’s the bit I find a bit suspect.

Having said that I think S T-D is more in the RW mould and will suit the horse well.
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The point about "main jockey" and "retained jockey" is that a retained jockey will be paid a retainer AND will almost certainly have an agreement on which horses he MAY and MAY NOT ride, this is often clearer in flat racing when bigger owners will have their own retained jockey who will have an agreement to ride most of horses owned by one person, UNLESS there is a different arrangement.

The main jockey will usually be on the stable payroll, and the yard will supply him with most of his rides as with Daryl Jacobs working for PN. He will usually be free to take outside rides if it does not impinge on his main role.
Riding arrangements will always be a matter for discussion / judgement and availability, and the decision making may may not be about one race, owners usually want continuity particularly with a young horse which needs education.
Jockeys want to secure "the ride" on upcoming horses, at one stage Big Bucks will be beaten by another horse, so while it is a super ride, it is not a given.
Sam Twiston-Davis is a good jockey, but not in the "great category" yet.
 
MrsD123 – sorry yes, I get the difference between retained and main, my point, badly made, was why did he need to emphasise that point – it seemed like a side swipe at DJ which was rather unnecessary IMO. I know he’s said DJ will never ride all the horses, but that’s hardly rocket science, given the number of horses they have and the number of meetings they go to across the country.

What I don’t understand is why the yards “main” jockey is not willing to take on the ride on one of their best horses – I cannot, as suggested, see why DJ thinks it’s a poison chalice – if the horse doesn’t win, it would be perfectly easy to put it down to having been off injured for a year. If the horse wins, well everyone is happy anyway. Brilliant horse, great training performance, good ride from jockey.

It seems to me that trainer and owner would prefer someone else and that is of course their prerogative and not every rider suits every horse, but why not say DJ is committed to other horses having ridden and won on them all season so they wanted to find someone who could commit to the horse longer term. Or just tell the truth – owner wants different jockey on this particular horse and be up front about it, rather than laying the blame for being “jocked off” at DJ’s lack of enthusiasm for the horse. And PN does have form for this type of behaviour – Sam Thomas and Joe Tizzard to name two.
 
KautoStar1 said:
MrsD123 – sorry yes, I get the difference between retained and main, my point, badly made, was why did he need to emphasise that point – it seemed like a side swipe at DJ which was rather unnecessary IMO. I know he’s said DJ will never ride all the horses, but that’s hardly rocket science, given the number of horses they have and the number of meetings they go to across the country.

What I don’t understand is why the yards “main” jockey is not willing to take on the ride on one of their best horses – I cannot, as suggested, see why DJ thinks it’s a poison chalice – if the horse doesn’t win, it would be perfectly easy to put it down to having been off injured for a year. If the horse wins, well everyone is happy anyway. Brilliant horse, great training performance, good ride from jockey.

It seems to me that trainer and owner would prefer someone else and that is of course their prerogative and not every rider suits every horse, but why not say DJ is committed to other horses having ridden and won on them all season so they wanted to find someone who could commit to the horse longer term. Or just tell the truth – owner wants different jockey on this particular horse and be up front about it, rather than laying the blame for being “jocked off” at DJ’s lack of enthusiasm for the horse. And PN does have form for this type of behaviour – Sam Thomas and Joe Tizzard to name two.
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I agree. I think it was an unfortuate article designed to remove any blame from PN. True or not, he should be man enough to protect his staff or people who ride for him and take some flack for them sometimes. I shouldn't think for a moment that DJ wanted his opinions, thoughts, feelings etc published for the world to see and if PN had been decent he would have taken a bit of stick about the jockey choice and left it there.

Hasn't impressed me to be honest.
 
I find it astonishing that any jockey would decline the chance to ride a top horse like Big Buck's, even on his comeback. Its just not generally the sort of thing jockeys do. There must be more to it than this. I wonder if he has ridden him in work at home.
 
I don't see a conspiracy theory: this sort of high profile ride is often subject to discussion, it's normal.
Many rides high and low profile have to be allocated and it is not always the best jockey in the world who is the chosen one, otherwise AP would never have a day off!
 
When I first heard this I too thought it was a double edged sword for DJ, if the horse won it would be down to the horse and if it lost he would be blamed. Maybe DJ knows something we dont, I dont know how they can say Big Bucks is as good as he ever was until he goes on a racecourse and proves it. Having said that I am not a trainer and PN has probably forgotten more than I will ever know so who knows except the people involved.

As for the retained or main jockey I thought that was always how it was with RW, they had a gentlemans agreement and I dont see anything sinister in what PNs has said regarding this and is not a snub for DJ who probably dosnt want to comment on it anyway.
 
So pleased for Sam that he got the ride :) He is such a good person for the sport and being in the limelight more is just what he (and the sport) need IMO.
 
Regardless of PN's statement about DJ, which just sounded like a bit of a dig at DJ - I am thrilled for Sam. I think he's a lovely rider and always seems like a genuinly nice guy. There must be so much pressure on him with Big Bucks, I don't envy him!
 
I think Sam is a great jockey and will do fine. BB hardly looks like a complicated sort to ride, he jumps well and stays forever - or used to.
PN is yet again not treating his jockey with any respect. Every time Harry Skelton wins a race I am delighted, and Jo Tizzard, after what PN did to both of them. Sam Thomas' career unfortuantely appears to be pretty well over as well.
Have you read his autobiography? You would think he had never upset anyone in his whole life, and always thought of others. You can't, of course, in his postition, but self publicity doesn't need to be quite so 'whiter than white'.
 
What has surprised me about Nicholl's words are that he's explained how he "thinks" that DJ feels, and how he'd "imagine" that DJ must be relieved, and how he "suspected" that DJ will rationalise. Were I a trainer and I employed a jockey, I'd "KNOW" exactly how the man felt, by the simple expedience of asking him.

Towards the end of his explanation, Nicholls then said that tough decisions had to be taken. No problem with that, but sugar coating the decision by saying that he wasn't too certain of the jockey's level of commitment, was rather strange. Don't these people actually talk to each other?

My own opinion? I suspect that the horse will be roundly beaten. His price will be of interest, does anyone know what his odds are now, and if the gambling world has any confidence in him?

Alec.
 
The fact that Sam has been given the ride is now neither here nor there and if it was as stated with DJ blessing even better. It is that article by PN that has made me so cross.

The conversation / discussions between himself, DJ and the owner were just that, between them, not to be published in the media for every man, woman and dog to dissect and comment on. He published it simply to pass the blame which smacks of school ground behaviour. He could have simply issued a statement saying that after discussions with the parties involved it has been decided to give the ride to Sam and that everyone is perfectly happy with the arrangement. Why did he have to say anymore?

I am glad for Sam that he gets to ride a good horse like that but I truely hope his father has the sense to keep him away from the PN jockey's graveyard.
 
PN makes a hell of a lot of assumptions in that article - obviously thinks no-one who works for him can speak for themselves.

Not the first time I've thought PN should pay somebody to do his PR -he has a habit of cocking up when he goes public to 'explain' his decisions!

Agree STD is an excellent choice though - what a great accolade for him!
 
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