Biotin or Rosehips for hoof growth

[orangegrace]

Hi,

My gelding has always had terrible feet. They have been much better for quite a while now however lately with the very hot and dry then very wet etc weather they have gone very crumbly and I am really struggling with them.

I am looking at taking off his back shoes in the winter once the ground has softened with a view to hopefully getting the front off too to give him a break from nailing on shoes/hopefully keeping him barefoot.

The main issue is he is growing little to no hoof so re-shoing is becoming very difficult. I am treating all the cracks and nail holes with the red horse putty stuff to try and eliminate the bacteria as he has lots of black patches in his hooves with I think is one of the main issues I'm dealing with.

I have been reading about rosehips and many people say that they help with hoof growth but I have also been looking at Biotin plus. Can anyone recommended one over the other please to aid growth/quality?

Current diet:
Handful of lite and healthy honeychop chaff
magnesium
mint
boswellia (arthritis)


thanks all xx

 

[Cocorules]

Could you get a qualified nutritionist out?

I would suggest a hoof supplement. Equimins hoof mender has a high biotin content. Biotin is scientifically proven, I don't think rosehips are.

It is also helpful to use something like Kevin Bacon's grease, not oil, on the hoof itself. Nutrition is important but external grease really helps when the ground changes between wet and dry, but to be really effective you need to use it every day.

Arthritis needs painkiller. Ask a human with it, it is really painful.

 

[be positive]

I would go for a good complete supplement rather than individual bits and bobs that may do nothing, Equimins, Forageplus, progressive earth all do good quality balanced supplements that work.

I have started using a boswellia based supplement for 2 stiff oldies and have seen good results so I would continue to use it until something stronger is required, which may not be necessary.

 

[orangegrace]

He has changes in his hocks which he has injected with steriods and he is supported with boswellia. When required he will be given bute.

I feed him thunderbrooks daily essentials through the autumn/winter/spring but knocked it off during the summer. I will be putting him back on this shortly.

I use Kevin bacon on his feet every day but I have been considering leaving this off for a while as I feel this is creating the most environment for the bacteria to spread. Whilst I am treating the cracks etc I was going to hold of on it.

I am leaning towards the biotin at the moment especially with the backing evidence. X

 

[orangegrace]

Forgot to say I did try the equimins but couldn't get him to eat it for love nor money ! I was basically just chucking it onto the muck heap 😩

Daily essentials balancer is the only one I've found that he'll eat x

 

[Leo Walker]

Most healthy horses dont need extra biotin. Biotin on its own isnt going to do what you want. Thunderbrooks daily essentials is a fairly poor spec and not ideal for feet. I feed mine equimins advance complete. There is a significant difference in her feet when shes on it and when shes not. It works out the best spec for the lowest price as well when I looked into it

 

[Leo Walker]

Did you try the pelleted version? Lots of people have success with that? Mine is the fussiest creature alive but she eats the powdered equimins without batting an eyelid. I dont know many horses that would be happy to eat it in just a straw chaff though, so I'd be tempted t add some sort of mash, ponk mash or sugar beet etc to make it palatable

 

[JillA]

Biotin is vitamin B which is in abundance in rosehips. But I would be checking his protein levels in his food and supplementing with methionine which is the one for horn rather than soft tissue. But you could also give him lysine, another amino acid, which is short in the diets of most horses. What protein is in the feeds he is getting? Forageplus are a good source of information, set up and run by Sarah Braithwaite who is a very good podiatrist so feet are what she knows especially well.

https://forageplus.co.uk/product-category/hoof-support-horses/

 

[be positive]

Ours took a while to eat the powdered Equimins, he would only take a tiny amount initially building up very slowly and it has to be in a token amount of soaked grassnuts, linseed is given daily as it is very good for the feet as well as skin, the owner did buy some biotin but it smells awful and there is no way he is going to touch that so it is here if anyone wants to buy an unused but open tub I think she would be pleased to sell it on.

 

[JillA]

Ours took a while to eat the powdered Equimins, he would only take a tiny amount initially building up very slowly and it has to be in a token amount of soaked grassnuts, linseed is given daily as it is very good for the feet as well as skin, the owner did buy some biotin but it smells awful and there is no way he is going to touch that so it is here if anyone wants to buy an unused but open tub I think she would be pleased to sell it on.

I find bran is very palatable, a little in the feed enabled me to give the generic mineral supplement which they wouldn't accept at all without it

 

[AnShanDan]

I use forageplus minerals and none of the 5/6 horses fed on it have had an issue, I mix it with either soaked grass pellets (mine love these) or fibre beet.

 

[orangegrace]

So would people recommend equimins over tb daily essentials ? I did so much research on balancers before and thought I'd made a good decision with tb. It's an absolute nightmare and makes my head hurt ☹ xx

 

[cauda equina]

Last time my farrier came, the only horse who actually needed trimming was the one on a skin supplement that's mostly linseed

 

[sbloom]

Biotin is vitamin B which is in abundance in rosehips. But I would be checking his protein levels in his food and supplementing with methionine which is the one for horn rather than soft tissue. But you could also give him lysine, another amino acid, which is short in the diets of most horses. What protein is in the feeds he is getting? Forageplus are a good source of information, set up and run by Sarah Braithwaite who is a very good podiatrist so feet are what she knows especially well.

https://forageplus.co.uk/product-category/hoof-support-horses/

B7 specifically, but yes, it needs the limiting amino acids (the ones the horse can't synthesise itself) to work with it, lysine as you mentioned and, I believe, methionine.

And yes, Forageplus supps are great.

I think your biggest issue is white line disease and this is very hard to tackle with shoes on sadly as you just can't get to the white line properly. Farriers are very good at glossing over the significance and incidence of mild whilte line diease (oh it's just been really dry), thrush and low grade laminitis (not all farriers, but I would probably say a majority).

 

[vhf]

I struggled with one of mine and found that equimins Hoofmender 75 was the final piece of the jigsaw. She had a dreadful tendency to thrush patches too. I've found with the fussier ones, I literally start with the smallest amount possible (2 tiny pellets!) and build slowly as I think it's as much the smell as the taste they react to. Mines now on the advance complete with linseed and salt, and I finally have lovely hooves. Only took 5 years...

 

[Casey76]

Additional biotin is one of those overhyped things. It is actually synthesized by bacteria in the gut, so it is very unusual that a « normal » horse would actually need extra biotin.

What horses often do need extra help with are zinc, copper, and methionine.

So a vitamin and mineral supplement (like forage plus or progressive earth) rather than a « hoof » supplement (like farriers formula for example) may be more efficient.

 

[ester]

So would people recommend equimins over tb daily essentials ? I did so much research on balancers before and thought I'd made a good decision with tb. It's an absolute nightmare and makes my head hurt ☹ xx

all day long! Mine is quite fussy but finding the right carrier (agrobs for him) was revolutionary. The only thing the equimins is a bit low in is magnesium, as mine is treated as metabolic I add extra.

It is worth noting that hooves do often grow faster bare (work related, in full work I was trimming ever 2-3 weeks, now retired 6 weeks is fine!)
If you can get your farrier to hang around a bit longer/he does others at the same time a cleantrax soak would probably be a good idea.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I think im going to have a headache working our which balancer etc to put the boys on and a decent cost 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Both weight in the 700kilos range.

 

[fburton]

B7 specifically, but yes, it needs the limiting amino acids (the ones the horse can't synthesise itself) to work with it, lysine as you mentioned and, I believe, methionine.

I remember Hilary Clayton, when she was still in Glasgow, telling me exactly this when I asked about biotin for hooves - you need lysine and methionine for the biotin to be fully effective.

 

[Leo Walker]

I think im going to have a headache working our which balancer etc to put the boys on and a decent cost 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Both weight in the 700kilos range.

Equimins, the powdered one works out the cheapest with the best spec. £20 ish a month for my 450kg pony