Suby2
Well-Known Member
I own a good doer with poor feet. I do use Keratex but was considering feeding Biotin however I do not know if it is fattening? Is anyone able to enlighten me?
Biotin query
- Thread starter Suby2
- Start date
Casey76
Well-Known Member
Biotin is actually produced in the hindgut of the horse (it is a B vitamin). To improve feet you need a mineral top up which is high in lysine, methionine, zinc and copper (I think it's copper!), biotin should actually come low down on the list.
A straight biotin supplement isn't going to do any harm, as the body will excrete what it doesn't use. Whether it is fattening or nor depends on what the base is. Some (like NAF) are in an alfalfa base, some are in a dextrose base.
A straight biotin supplement isn't going to do any harm, as the body will excrete what it doesn't use. Whether it is fattening or nor depends on what the base is. Some (like NAF) are in an alfalfa base, some are in a dextrose base.
Suby2
Well-Known Member
Oh, that's interesting. I (wrongly) thought that Biotin was the important ingredient.
supsup
Well-Known Member
The reason there is a lot of mention of biotin for hoof health is because there are a few studies that show improved hoof quality if it is supplemented (and also some studies that show zero effect). So it's been marketed on that basis. If the horse's gut is healthy and is fed a forage-based diet, then the bacteria should supply plenty of it naturally. I suspect in cases where biotin has helped, the horse for one reason or another had less natural biotin available from the gut microbes. Who knows.
In any case, as pointed out above, hoof health relies on good overall nutrition. The body is smart, and if nutrients are lacking, it will save in non-vital places, like the coat, hooves or skin and prioritise the vital organs. So it makes sense to make sure you feed a well balanced diet that supplies enough protein (including the essential amino acids lysine and methionine) and sufficient micronutrients (of which zinc and copper are some that are known to be important for horn quality). A good quality balancer is probably your best bet, particularly if you have to restrict forage, or maybe even soak hay (removing some nutrients) to keep you good doer's waistline in check. A pelleted balancer fed at the recommended amount, or a powdered balancer fed in a similar amount of fibre feed (e.g. grass nuts, alfalfa nuts, chaff) isn't going to add a lot of calories to your horse's diet, but will provide all the important nutrients.
In any case, as pointed out above, hoof health relies on good overall nutrition. The body is smart, and if nutrients are lacking, it will save in non-vital places, like the coat, hooves or skin and prioritise the vital organs. So it makes sense to make sure you feed a well balanced diet that supplies enough protein (including the essential amino acids lysine and methionine) and sufficient micronutrients (of which zinc and copper are some that are known to be important for horn quality). A good quality balancer is probably your best bet, particularly if you have to restrict forage, or maybe even soak hay (removing some nutrients) to keep you good doer's waistline in check. A pelleted balancer fed at the recommended amount, or a powdered balancer fed in a similar amount of fibre feed (e.g. grass nuts, alfalfa nuts, chaff) isn't going to add a lot of calories to your horse's diet, but will provide all the important nutrients.
Shay
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry Casey. No mammal is capable of synthesizing biotin. It has to be ingested. Once ingested it is absorbed in the hindgut - and if ingested as part of forage ration it does "appear" in the hindgut as part of the breakdown of fiber. But it isn't produced by the horse.
Suby2 - you are quite correct that biotin is the vitamin you need to supplement to improve hoof quality.
There have been a number of studies which demonstrate the effectiveness of biotin fed as a supplement to improve hoof growth. (And in fairness one Swiss study which found no improvement.) The amount fed ranged from 15mg per day to 60 mg per day - current thinking is that 15mg - 30mg is probably about right. Any excess is simply excreted so you can't over supplement, although that does amount to expensive wee! You should combine biotin with methionine - but I think all the supplements do that anyway. It takes at least 9 months to see an effect though.
Cross posted with the above and failed to answer your question. Biotin is a vitamin - it isn't fattening.
Suby2 - you are quite correct that biotin is the vitamin you need to supplement to improve hoof quality.
There have been a number of studies which demonstrate the effectiveness of biotin fed as a supplement to improve hoof growth. (And in fairness one Swiss study which found no improvement.) The amount fed ranged from 15mg per day to 60 mg per day - current thinking is that 15mg - 30mg is probably about right. Any excess is simply excreted so you can't over supplement, although that does amount to expensive wee! You should combine biotin with methionine - but I think all the supplements do that anyway. It takes at least 9 months to see an effect though.
Cross posted with the above and failed to answer your question. Biotin is a vitamin - it isn't fattening.
SEL
Well-Known Member
OP - I'm another who would recommend a good quality balancer instead of biotin.
Couple of useful articles on b vitamins for your perusal...
http://www.equinews.com/article/story-b-vitamins-horse-nutrition
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/16881/biotin-does-it-work
Couple of useful articles on b vitamins for your perusal...
http://www.equinews.com/article/story-b-vitamins-horse-nutrition
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/16881/biotin-does-it-work
Shay
Well-Known Member
Its one of those things I'm afraid. More research is needed and like so much equine everyone has their own opinion. And in this case I suspect everyone's opinion is equally valid. But if you want the other side of the picture here are some of the scientific studies supporting the supplementation with biotin.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8202678
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9932094
http://www.anvilmag.com/farrier/nhfnhr-b.htm
https://www.horsesandpeople.com.au/article/research-review-biotin-and-its-effects-on-the-hoof-wall
In the interests of balance I did try to find the Swiss study which found no impact - but it dates from before publishing on the internet was widespread.
This isn't a cut and dried issue. There is some evidence that biotin works for some horses. The main source for biotin should be dietary - either from forage, from hard feed or from a balancer. But for some horses a supplement does produce results - albeit over a fairly long term.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8202678
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9932094
http://www.anvilmag.com/farrier/nhfnhr-b.htm
https://www.horsesandpeople.com.au/article/research-review-biotin-and-its-effects-on-the-hoof-wall
In the interests of balance I did try to find the Swiss study which found no impact - but it dates from before publishing on the internet was widespread.
This isn't a cut and dried issue. There is some evidence that biotin works for some horses. The main source for biotin should be dietary - either from forage, from hard feed or from a balancer. But for some horses a supplement does produce results - albeit over a fairly long term.
be positive
Well-Known Member
All those studies really prove is that if the animal is not getting enough biotin from it's normal diet, which most horses will if they have access to grazing, that supplementing will help improve the foot growth, hence it works for some and if it isn't required it will do no harm.
The 2 NCBI studies do not say how the horses were kept, if they were barn kept, which is highly likely, then they would have had restricted access to the vits and mins that are readily available from grazing, I suspect the Lipizzaners were in 24/7 and on a high starch diet, which would have been common in the early 90's , and that needed "balancing" giving them biotin produced results but they are not really reflective of how the average horse is kept today.
supsup
Well-Known Member
Based on the second of the above quoted studies relating to hoof growth rate, I actually supplemented fairly high levels of biotin for over two years, hoping I'd get a bit more growth from my pony (he grows horn very slowly, though good quality). It didn't make any difference to the growth rate that I could tell, so I stopped supplementing. My gelding lives out 24/7, so I concluded he probably already got all the biotin needs/can use naturally. Just my own experience. I used the biotin sold by Progressive Earth, and it doesn't have any fattening fillers, and is fed in very small amounts anyway (pretty concentrated). FWIW, a lot of the good quality balancers have some biotin added anyway, so you might be covering all the bases with one of those.
Buddy'sMum
Well-Known Member
Biotin is synthesised by bacteria in the hindgut.
OP - a healthy adult horse on a forage-based diet is very unlikely to be biotin deficient. The studies on horses that have been done don't convince me that supplementing biotin does anything much.
Last edited:
Elf On A Shelf
...
I used to feed one of my Shetlands biotin as his feet never grew! Never really chipped but never grew! The farrier would do a wee rasp round to neaten when unshod but that was it. When he wore shoes he gotta 1 nail in 1 side of his foot and 2 in the other with a bit of glue to keep them in place. 5 months later he would have the shoes taken off and the same ones put back on but the side that had 1 nail then got 2 and the 2 side got 1.
The biotin made no difference to his hoof quality over a 3 year period but by heck did it make his mane and tail grow!
The biotin made no difference to his hoof quality over a 3 year period but by heck did it make his mane and tail grow!
Suby2
Well-Known Member
Aargh! One thing I don'r need is more mane and tail!! :-/