Bird scarers / gas guns

[palomino698]

We have a problem with gas guns on two separate farms. I'm trying to find out if there are specific rules re distances for siting them near roads (or bridleways). In the NFU Bird Scarers Code this is the only reference to horses: "Remember that horses are easily frightened and can bolt or unseat their riders. Do not position the scarers near roads or bridleways usually used by riders."

Our hacking is almost all roadwork. There is a scarer within a mile to the left, on a road with a 60 mph speed limit, sited about 3 metres inside the hedge, then a ditch and a 2 metre wide verge between it and the road. If it fires when our spooky Welsh D is passing, she would leap across the road, possibly into the path of a vehicle, so we can no longer take her that way.

On Sunday we took the other route to find gas guns have been set up there too, much further into the field but just off the brow of a hill. One fired four times in quick succession, luckily far enough away that the mare quivered and jogged all down the hill but didn't take off.

Has anyone successfully asked to have one repositioned? The farmer with the closer one is particularly anti-horses and is not a nice man. I'm really tempted to try and disable it but worried I'd blow myself up in the process...

 

[RunToEarth]

Sorry, I'm sure there is little you can do. The contraptions are used with good reason and there is no actual set distance, just a guideline for landowners. We have them all around the farm at home and down at college so my horses don't mind them anymore.

 

[itsme123]

Bird scarers go off (usually) once an hour (or half hour) with three or four bangs in succession so probably best to find off when this particular farmer has timed his for and avoid those times.

There is no law, as far as I am aware, on these things. They just make a noise, so don't affect traffic, only horses.

He can't really reposition them because if he needs them in a certain field, even over the other side of the field they'll still be as loud. You have to ask yourself what's more important to him? his crop or your hack?

Hope this doesnt sound 'off' but I suspect it;s just something you;ll have to accept is there to stay.

 

[angiebaby]

We have them in fields near us too, but mine have just got used to the noise; same with the chinooks and low flying jets that come over almost daily!

Sorry not much use

 

[nikki_07766]

We have tons and tons around us they normally start going off about 6.30 in the morning and go off 3 or 4 times an hour, my dog hates bangs and so all we have all day is a barking scared dog, they are so loud it’s unreal, I guess there is a reason for them but all the ones I see are placed on fields that have had nothing done to them and are just weeds. Even after 18 months they still make my horses jump. We tend not to go one way now as they just go off all the time and make our ride unenjoyable. There’s so many of them one will go off then a little while later another one will go off before the first once has done off of its bangs!.

 

[PeterNatt]

I have had to deal with a number of problems caused by Bird Scarers in my area where they have been placed close to public rights of ways, public highways or routes used by horse riders and carriage drivers. If I am unable to persuade the landowner/farmer concerned to remove them then I resort to the the laws.

Use of the Environmental Protection act and the Health and Safety at work act normally does the trick. Where bird scarers are placed adjacent to a bridleway I also use the Firearms act by contacting the firearms officer at the local police station who then visits the landowner/farmer concerned.


There are several other laws that cover bird scarers and there is also a NFU advisory leaflet for farmers on the subject which will be updated shortly.

Landowners/Farmers have ben made aware on a number of occasions that if their bird scarers cause an accident then they will be held liable and will also be prosecuted normally using the Health and Safety and Work act.

The following legislation cover gas gun bird scarers:

The Environmental Protection Act 1990 (as amended) which regulates pollution and nuisances can be used by the District Council. Section 79 of the Act specifically includes within the definition of a statutory nuisance. Section 80(1) of the act states that where a local authority is satisfied that a statutory nuisance exists or is likely to occur or recur it shall serve an abatement notice. The local contact is the Environmental Protection Officer at your local district council.

Section 3 of the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974, where on conviction an offender can be subject to a fine of up to £20,000.00p. Request the local authorities Health and Safety Officer to make a joint visit to the bridleway. They could ask to see the landowner’s risk assessment for the gas gun bird scarer in relation to the bridleway.

It is an offence under the Highway Act 1980 Section 161(2) to light any fire on or over a carriageway or discharge any firearm or firework within 50 feet of the centre of a highway which is a carriageway’. Contact the Firearms officer at your local police station.

Town Police Clause Act 1847 covers the discharging of firearms where the public are endangered. Contact the firearms officer at your local police station.

Statutory Nuisance ‘A nuisance to a highway consists either in obstructing it or rendering it dangerous’ – Trevett v Lee 1955. Page 260 The Ramblers Blue Book – Rights of Way Law – Guide to Law and Practice.

‘If there is disturbance without authority such as to render the exercise of the right of way inconvenient:
(a) the default power in Section 12A paragraph 3 may be exercised;
(b) a prosecution may be undertaken under s 131 A
On Page 251 of the Blue Book

 

[ISHmad]

Does anyone know roughly when these crow scarers are taken down? I know they are not up all year round and are there to protect the early crops.

 

[snaffle]

try contacting the bhs access rep for your county

as peter has said, there are laws - you just need to know how to use them.

 

[unicornleather]

Bird scarers are the bane of my life here, we have 2 or 3 farmers who use them alot, one time I sat and counted the number of bangs in one hour from just one bird scarer 27 in total and my lurcher and staffy x lab are terrified of them, so much so I can't take them out for walks at all some days as where ever I go there's a blasted bird scarer!
One farmer had loads of complaints about it, as he sets them off as early as 5.20 am on sunday mornings and they go on until after dark.
The council got on to him to stop him but he turned to the NFU I think it was and got the order over ruled, so he carries on ignoring everyone else.
This is the farmer who also has regular clay pigeon shoots on his land, which lasts non stop all day so god help any horse riders with spooky horses or people with nervous dogs within a half mile radius. You can even hear the bird scarer he uses on the next hill which is 4 miles away.
Gas guns have been proven that the birds get used to the noise, strobe lighting or a combination of strobe and gas gun has found to be far more effective.
I used to live on a mixed farm, we never had gas guns, we had a regular pigeon shoot which all the locals would know about and we had a game keeper on our farm who kept the crows down, we never had a problem with noise pollution or pests.
DEFRA can only give guidelines in the gas guns use, it is not law at the moment but the way the farmers are abusing them I can see it being clamped down on eventually.

 

[PeterNatt]

Sadly some Landowners/Farmers appear to be completely unaware of the dangers that these devices can cause to passing horse riders and carriage drivers. Some on the other hand actually position them so as to discourage horse riders and carriage drivers from using local public rights of way which they are pefectly entitled to use and enjoy.

If there are any that are causing you or your fellow horse riders and carriage drivers a problem then do soemthing about it now rather than allow an accident to occur.

We have had some very serious accidents caused by bird scarers in this area from riders being thrown from their horses and breaking bones to horses bolting and running on to the road and being involved in an accident with motorised vehicles.

 

[lottie940]

I had a very bad scare when hacking out the other day. The local farm next to our hacking route also hates horse riders and goes to extreme lengths to try and stop you using the tracks. He has been known to hide bird scarers in hedges bordering empty fields and has let his dogs out to chase you up the track before. He is just an idiot that will kill somebody or something soon with his irresponsible actions.

I was out hacking and the farmers sons were pulling a gas gun around on a trolley firing it in rabbit warrens ( this is illegal vermin control) right next to the bridletrack w/out putting any notices up. Me and my boy pootle up just starting out on our hack to be confronted by an almighty bang, even though he wanted to gallop off I managed to keep hold of him. They saw me and let another one go deliberately. I managed to get him home and then walked back up to make my feelings known, they just think the are important because they are land owners and they seem to be able to do what they like.

I spoke to Firearms licensing at my local station, they were not interested as the licensing act only covers " lethal barrelled weapons capable of firing or discharging a shot" . Bird scarers and gas guns do not discharge anything from the barrel other than a loud bang. DEFRA were interested in the illegal vermin control though which was promising.

Your best bet is the Public Nuisance aspect of it but Highways and the Council who govern this always side with the farmer so I have just given up and will wait until something awful happens up, there because it will, I just hope no one gets killed.

 

[PeterNatt]

lottie940 If I can give you some advice......

Landowners and Farmers are obliged to comply with the Health and Safety at work legislation as they have a duty of care for anyone on their farm (even trespassers).

Phone up the local Health and Safety Executive and get them down to see the bird scarers on the farm. They will ask to see the farmers Health and Safety risk assesment for each bird scarer (which no doubt the farmer has not carried out) and also their third party public liability insurance policy as well as have a good look around the farm for any other violations.

The farmer will then have to comply because the Health and Safety executive have wide reaching powers.

 

[flyingfeet]

Reading some of these posts makes me cringe!

Never mind the fact that most farmers are trying to make a living not aiming to disturb the peace and scare horse riders!

The bird scarers are only about at the moment to protect the brassica and legume crops from pigeons which can do significant damage.

Pigeon shoots are a great idea, but not that many people have the patience to sit in a hide all day and they are tricky b*ggers to shoot.

How many of the people who have what they consider to be anti-horses farmers are considerate? Do you always shut gates, do you make an effort not to cut up the land when wet? Do you bother to get to know who the farmer is? Do you talk to them when you see them?

Many horsey people are dead stuck up, have no consideration for the ground or where they ride and are generally not very friendly. Hardly surprising the farmers aren't fond of them!

I make sure I know the farmers, I will call if I spot illegal coursing, or something funny (illegal rave 2 weeks ago!). I patrol the land for them and when its wet will keep to a slower pace so the grass isn't churned up.

Yes bird scarers are a pain, but I just wait to see whats happening with the cycle and then risk it!

 

[loopyloop]

We've got a fantastic set of fields opposite our yard which the farmer grows and grazes on (not him personally of course...

) but also maintains for us to ride on, he has also just set up these bird scarers!!

Not sure how other people cope but it's done wonders for my spooky mare, she hears it all day and doesnt bat an eyelid! Which is probably a good think as it went off when I had one foot in the stirrup and one foot on the fence Monday night!!!

hmmmmm, if only I can get him to start raising squirrels.....She thinks they are terrifying!

 

[Sooty]

Well said! We are all for supporting British farming, unless it interferes with our hobby.

I am currently losing sleep over a gas gun - quite literally! The timer has slipped and it is going off until 1am, and I cannot identify which gun it is and therefore which farm it belongs to. I am sure any farmer who is approached would be happy to give details of timings and placements of gas guns, but they are necessary in the countryside. All manner of bird scaring devices double up very nicely as horse scaring devices, it is a matter of finding them and avoiding for the time they are in use.

 

[flyingfeet]

You ought to ring the farmer and tell him, no point in wasting gas at 1am when the pigeons are roosting! I'm sure he'd love to know as gas has got quite expensive now.

 

[Sooty]

Do you really think I haven't tried tracking down which one it is?!

 

[flyingfeet]

No - but wouldn't think it matters, as he will probably make the rounds and find the culprit.

 

[PeterNatt]

In many cases bird scarers are hidden from view so horse riders and carriage drivers who have not ridden the route before may be completely unaware that they are present until they explode which could cause a potential accident.

I suggest that the writers of the above 3 posts make themselves familiar with the National Farmers Union (NFU) Code of Practice on bird scarers which includes the following statements.........

"Think carefully about the use of propane gas guns. Inconsiderate use may lead to complaints and you may have to appear in court"

"Scarers are intended to frighten birds, not visitors to the countryside. Try to avoid surprising passers by".

"Remember that horses are easily frightened and can bolt and unseat their riders. Do not positionte scarers near roads, or bridleways used by riders".

"Point the scarer away from nearby roads or bridleways".

"Consider erecting temporary signs to warn riders. Don't forget to remove these after use".

As a land owner and horse rider myself I would not be daft enough to place a bird scarer anywhere near a route used by horse riders or carriage drivers. I have more respect for the safety of members of the public.

If anyone wants a copy of the leaflet please P.M me with your Email address and I will be happy to send you a .pdf of the latest version of it.

 

[itsme123]

[ QUOTE ]
Reading some of these posts makes me cringe!

Never mind the fact that most farmers are trying to make a living not aiming to disturb the peace and scare horse riders!

The bird scarers are only about at the moment to protect the brassica and legume crops from pigeons which can do significant damage.

Pigeon shoots are a great idea, but not that many people have the patience to sit in a hide all day and they are tricky b*ggers to shoot.

How many of the people who have what they consider to be anti-horses farmers are considerate? Do you always shut gates, do you make an effort not to cut up the land when wet? Do you bother to get to know who the farmer is? Do you talk to them when you see them?

Many horsey people are dead stuck up, have no consideration for the ground or where they ride and are generally not very friendly. Hardly surprising the farmers aren't fond of them!

I make sure I know the farmers, I will call if I spot illegal coursing, or something funny (illegal rave 2 weeks ago!). I patrol the land for them and when its wet will keep to a slower pace so the grass isn't churned up.

Yes bird scarers are a pain, but I just wait to see whats happening with the cycle and then risk it!

[/ QUOTE ]

Thankyou! At last a member with half a thought for the farmer!

What has astounded me is the sheer amount of riders who assume they have this God given right to go where they like, when they like...

How many riders see a stubble field and go full pelt over it just because it looks like fun? How would those riders feel if that was THEIR land? Its someone elses property FFS! You ask permission, and most farmers would smile and say "go ahead" surely it's just plain good manners to ask?

Farmers don't own land for the fun of it, or set up bird scarers because they look pretty.

Most of us rely on famers for our livery, hay, straw, and feed. So why the hell go to enviromental health and stop them using scarers to protects their crops?? It's ridiculous and petty.

We use bridleways with respect to the land owner, if we carry on whingeing soon we will have no bridleways left, let alone get the opportunity to open more!

If you don't like where you ride then don't ride there, simple. We have a bridleway, which, for part of the year is unsafe to use. So we don't use it for that part of the year, we ride elsewhere. If we didnt have elsewhere to ride then we would move the pony. Simple.

But i appreciate having the coutryside to use, therefore respect other countryside users and wouldnt dream of assuming that my needs come before theirs. In fact, my needs come pretty much below theirs... mine's a hobby, theirs is their living.

 

[PeterNatt]

Charlie you tend to forget that the Bridleways/Public Right of Way where there before the farmer bought the land.

The public have a right to use public rights of way and the landowners and farmers have a duty of care when using these exploding devices. They have the potential of causing a serious accident not only to the horse rider but in the event of the horse bolting in to other members of the public or on to a public highway.

As members of the public we have every right to protect our safe use of bridleways and not be intimedated by landowners and farmers who put their interests before that of the safety of members of the public that are legitamately using a public right of way.

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

We are surrounded by farm land and the gas guns are moved around the fields according to the crop being planted. We quickly find out where the guns are and get to know the cycle - ie every 20 mins and it goes of twice etc and try and ride around them. The only time it really seems to bother ours is if they are quite near the gun and it is facing them - although sometimes I think it bothers us more than the horses!! The farms are on a country estate who tries to accommodate riders, shoots and farmers and are pretty good at keeping all of us happy.

 

[RunToEarth]

[ QUOTE ]
Sadly some Landowners/Farmers appear to be completely unaware of the dangers that these devices can cause to passing horse riders and carriage drivers. Some on the other hand actually position them so as to discourage horse riders and carriage drivers from using local public rights of way which they are pefectly entitled to use and enjoy.

If there are any that are causing you or your fellow horse riders and carriage drivers a problem then do soemthing about it now rather than allow an accident to occur.

We have had some very serious accidents caused by bird scarers in this area from riders being thrown from their horses and breaking bones to horses bolting and running on to the road and being involved in an accident with motorised vehicles.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you know what? they were out there for a reason, and farming is more important than hacking your horses. end of.

 

[RunToEarth]

[ QUOTE ]
Charlie you tend to forget that the Bridleways/Public Right of Way where there before the farmer bought the land.

The public have a right to use public rights of way and the landowners and farmers have a duty of care when using these exploding devices. They have the potential of causing a serious accident not only to the horse rider but in the event of the horse bolting in to other members of the public or on to a public highway.

As members of the public we have every right to protect our safe use of bridleways and not be intimedated by landowners and farmers who put their interests before that of the safety of members of the public that are legitamately using a public right of way.

[/ QUOTE ]
Utter bull. Hack somewhere that isn't infested with craw scarers- surely you would be an idiot to walk on a bridleway knowing they were there and your horses didn't like them.
Farmers have a livelyhood to upkeep, horses are a liability anyway. (and I am a horseowner, before I get shot down.)

 

[Sooty]

Oh, and we are all encouraged (quite rightly) to support British farming - now it seems to be as long as it doesn't interfere with a minority hobby! Most farmers are very approachable, but farmland is an open air factory, not a vast theme park. Those of us that ride and walk in farmland must come second to any farming practices necessary.

 

[PeterNatt]

Many of the accidents caused by these devices are caused because riders are unaware that they are there. For instance hidden behind a hedge. It is the responsibility of the landowner to use and position these devices so that they are at a safe distance from a public right of way and public highway so as to avoid causing an accident.

At the end of the day these devices explode and therefore need to be used with care, caution and regard to the safety of others.

Members of the public using a public right of way or public highway have every right to travel along them and if landowners/farmers use these devices they should be positioned and used with the safety of members of public in mind.

This is made quite clear in the NFU Bird Scarer code of practice leaflet.

 

[Gingernags]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Charlie you tend to forget that the Bridleways/Public Right of Way where there before the farmer bought the land.

The public have a right to use public rights of way and the landowners and farmers have a duty of care when using these exploding devices. They have the potential of causing a serious accident not only to the horse rider but in the event of the horse bolting in to other members of the public or on to a public highway.

As members of the public we have every right to protect our safe use of bridleways and not be intimedated by landowners and farmers who put their interests before that of the safety of members of the public that are legitamately using a public right of way.

[/ QUOTE ]
Utter bull. Hack somewhere that isn't infested with craw scarers- surely you would be an idiot to walk on a bridleway knowing they were there and your horses didn't like them.
Farmers have a livelyhood to upkeep, horses are a liability anyway. (and I am a horseowner, before I get shot down.)

[/ QUOTE ]

What a load of cak!

What if your only way out of your stables was a bridleway with a main road on the end and bird scarers along it? Leave your horse and never ride it?

You sound just like the moron car drivers who say horses shouldn't be on roads and we should ride in fields!

All PeterNatt is saying is there should be a compromise here.

We as riders, and walkers, have a right to use bridleways and roads safely, all people are saying - is site the bird scarers properly and safely.

Surely not much to ask?

As it happens my horse isn't that worried about them, but some are, and if a badly sited one caused a horse to bolt into traffic and killed someone, when it was placed somewhere dangerous and against regulations and guidelines, the farmer is liable and its avoidable.

You'd think they could therefore employ sense and due care.

We SHARE the countryside. Everyone has rights - its compromise thats needed - not saying we can't ride where we have to, or that farmers should suffer.

Where I used to keep the horse - the one with only one way out and therefore had to go past it - I thought it was very selfish of the farmer. It was miles away from HIS farmhouse, but only metres away from the farm where we kept the horses, practically under the bedroom window, and it went off from some ungodly hour til late. Nice way to treat the neighbours, could have been at the other side away from their house instead of right under it. It was horribly loud! (And didn't work, they did a shoot in the end, shot about 100 pigeons and next day there was about 300 more having a sit in on the field!)

Why can't people be reasonable and work together?

 

[loopyloop]

This might sound a really stupid and uneducated answer but it seems pretty simple to me...........Whether the bird scarer is the other side of the hedge or the other side of the field it's still going to make a stupidly scary noise, Farmers see them as a neccessity, some horse riders see them as a nuisance!

BUT

No matter where the farmer puts them it's going to make a noise thats going to take the majority of people and horses by surprise! Except my super star of course, I jump, she doesn't!!!

 

[flyingfeet]

[ QUOTE ]
and if a badly sited one caused a horse to bolt into traffic and killed someone, when it was placed somewhere dangerous and against regulations and guidelines, the farmer is liable and its avoidable

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually if your horse bolts into traffic due to a loud noise, it would be extremely difficult to prove the farmer is liable. For example a car backfiring could be considered to be a hazard of being on the road and riders ought to have sufficient control over their animals.

I think if most people had a friendly chat with the farmer rather than quoting codes and regulations, you are more likely to get a resolution. Honey catches more flies than vinegar!!!!!!!

 

[Gingernags]

It just seems daft to me, if a field has 4 sides, why hide a gas gun in the hedge bordering a road or bridleway and risk people kicking off or causing an accident, when you could put it further away and minimise the risk?

Have to admit some of the farmers round here would be as awkward as possible just because they can! (Though I think years of dealing with jobsworths like DEFRA drove them that way!)

I just think we can co-exist and not say horse riders shouldn't ride as its putting farmers out of business, or that farmers should be doing as they aer told end of - it takes a bit of give from both sides...

After all, there are worse things than horse riders - like the townies who want the cows kept in as they are making the fields muddy and they don't like the noise and smell....