Bit Actions??

[Hattikins]

Fiddler has just come back into work and as he did before he is evading the bit by sticking his nose on his chest and just running/getting faster and faster - its impossible to stop at the moment - so the question is - what bits have an action that brings the head up ???
He is currently in a cheltenham gag for cross country and it is fantastic however recently i have had increasing trouble with him sticking his nose on his chest when i want to slow down, we know he hates curb chains FULL STOP and doesnt go at all well in a three ring gag and a wilkie isnt strong enough

so what can you experts suggest for my increasingly "wild" boy!!!!!!!!

 

[Irishcobs]

Do cheltenham gags raise the head?

 

[KatB]

Cheltenham gags will encourage them to "coil" thir necks in!! Try a Tom Thumb, with copper rings, they are sweet iron, but have an elevator action and have yet to find a horse that doesnt react well to it! Otherwise, How about and American Gag?

 

[Hattikins]

[ QUOTE ]
Cheltenham gags will encourage them to "coil" thir necks in!!

[/ QUOTE ]

yup we found that out pretty quickly when he started ducking behind the bit as an evasion

we bought a tom thumb for him but i have a feeling its not going to be strong enough and i think annoyingly we bought it 1/2" too small

- when i say he is VERY strong im not joking

!!!!!

hmm how similar is an american gag to a 3 ring??

 

[vickers22]

i have an american gag for cross country and only just does the job!But i find that occasionaly it cuts the corners of his mouth so have stopped using it.Im in exactly the same boat!!

 

[vickers22]

An american gag is quite a bit stronger, but i also found that he tucked his head in as there is quite a bit of poll pressure..

 

[KatB]

American gag is alot stronger, as the length of the shanks give more poll pressure. Have you thought about trying a Waterford mouthpiece? Would offer you my Tom Thunb, but not sure when will be needing it!! What about Nosebands, a Kineton can be helpful, and you can put slightly less in their mouths....?!

 

[Irishcobs]

Ah you learn something new...

 

[vickers22]

i have tried a kineton, and he hated it!was tossing his head etc when i put pressure on. havnt tried a waterford though...

 

[Hattikins]

we have been thinking along the lines of kineton and waterford but havent a clue where to start ie. what cheek piece to use for a waterford and what bit to use with a kineton??

what does the kineton do?? i have seen it used but dont know exactly what it does??

 

[vickers22]

it puts pressure on the nose more than the mouth, but you are only meant to use a snaffle with it. It has quite a severe nose action

 

[KatB]

Hm, I think by the sounds of things you need less cheek action and more to back him off in the mouth, if that makes sense!? His coiling is down to getting away from the action of the Gag... but will sy#till take on the mouthpiece?! GG is right, you should only use a snaffle with a kineton. What noseband do you use? A waterford with the universal type cheeks on (look at patches post) and a grackle may help!??

 

[Hattikins]

yup only a snaffle but what kind of snaffle??

however when they say only a snaffle does that include waterfords (not that im considering using both together) BUT Primmores Pride had kineton plus waterford - is this an exception to the rule??

 

[KatB]

Lol!! Nah I reckon you could try a kineton and a loose ring waterford!?? Alot of people have their own rules...

 

[Hattikins]

hes in a flash noseband at the moment and a grackle makes absolutely no different because he doesnt move his mouth at all.

 

[KatB]

Bu**er!! Kineton may be worth a go then, trying to think of other combinations seen used.....

 

[Hattikins]

hmmm its tricky isnt it!!!!

problem is he thinks he's better than me at doing everything and so tells me we ARE going to do it his way and that means putting his head on his chest leaving the bit loose in his mouth and just is totally oblivious to anything i ask him to do with had seat or voice apart from legs to go EVEN faster!!! grrr

but i love him really

 

[puddicat]

Ahh Kineton a name you never hear much these days unless you're driving through Warwickshire along Fossway. Scrooge, you must be one hell of a bit/bridle enthusiast to write it with a capital 'K'

 

[KatB]

Lol!! Had a variety of horses to bit and play with...

What are your opinions on it? Only used it once, and that was on a horse that preferred HAckamore type action.... was never hugely strong!?

 

[helenandshadow]

That is a tricky one!!

Well, a snaffle is supposed to raise the head but it wouldn't be much good if he is strong, so maybe a waterford like you said or something with rollers - so you have the raising action of a snaffle with a mouthpiece that he can't take hold of. I would've though a kineton would encourage him to tuck his nose in because of the nose pressure?? but then i haven't used one so i don't know.

 

[druid]

What about trying the bitting arangement Finbar V (Robert Whitaker's ride) has in (Rosiie has a good pic if you ask her). It's a german hackamore linked w/ a rounding to a snaffle (In your case a loose ring waterford would be best I'd guess) - you basically have steering but braking and the hackamore action is limited by the roundings length.

 

[Hattikins]

hmmm interesting - i will look into it as a next port of call if - and we're going to take the plunge (for now anyway)!! and try him in an american gag and just see what happens

fingers xd!!!!!

At least now thanks to all of you i have plenty of options if this doesnt work! and ill let you know how it goes

 

[Hanz]

I have heard a Dutch Gag raises the head, thats why people get annoyed by them being used with martingales.

 

[k9h]

How about this bit as appose to the kineton (v similar)
http://www.katenegus.com/index.htm?oc=rel&di=desc&subj=Nosebands

 

[icestationzebra]

What about a kineton with a Dr Bristol? is that mean?