Bit advise pls and schooling problem

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Len

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Hi,

I have recently changed my mares bit from a full cheek french link snaffle to a KK loose ring snaffle as she was leaning on me when schooling and I was advised that the loose ring would help this. She has also had a new saddle fitted in the past couple of weeks.
Initially she schooled ok in the new bit no leaning - she has been stuffy off my leg in trot in the school but is often evasive. With a tickle of the schooling whip she usually goes ok.

The past few times in the school (with new bit and saddle) shes been 'nappy'. Instead of being stuffy off my leg when I ask for trot she is now planting her feet and spinning on the spot - on Saturday I rode her through it basically ignored her and quietly rode on and she was better but tonight the spinning has been terrible and we got nothing done.
She loves to hack and we have no issues there so could it be a bit issue if only in the school? I am warey about putting it down to just naughtiness as in the past if shes bucked etc its been due to tack or season and not purely bad manners.

I have concentrated on hacking recently to give her a break from the school but it doesnt seem to have helped. As she seems physically ok out hacking I presume shes just sour in the school and that she doesnt have a problem with the saddle or bit but I am worried about ploughing on if something is amiss.

Instead of leaning as she did in the full cheek shes now in the loose ring and is now coming above it and nose poking. I have tried leaving her head alone and riding her forwards but as soon as she feels she has the rein she stops and spins, if I take a hold of her she gets upset and the battle carries on.

Does anyone have any ideas as to wether this sounds like shes unhappy with the bit or just a new evasion tactic I need to work through?!?!?
 
If shes had her back checked and her teeth done then she sounds like she taking the mick?? Are you a confident rider? Maybe try her in a set of draw reins to bring her head down and make her use her back and hind a bit more? Souns like shes testing you?
 
Having a new saddle fitted is no guarantee that it fits. Does she pull faces when you tack her up? If she does then I would definitely look to the saddle as the culprit.

Have her teeth checked if you haven't for a while.

I find it hard to believe that the bit would cause this issue. It is more likely - if not one of the above that she is sour & unhappy in the school, in which case I would stop schooling her for a while & concentrate on schooling on hacks, or going to other venues to school.
 
Get teeth and back checked! But, if there's nothing there, try lungeing in the school and seeing how she goes. Maybe she just needs it mixed up a little? Plus, you can see her working from the ground, so you can see if anything else is upsetting her. Good luck! xx
 
I think if all the checks have been done and you are happy with everything physically then you could change the bit to something other than a snaffle. It certainly sounds like she isn't happy in the current one. Just because it is flat work it doesn't have to be in a snaffle. Try some with more poll pressure, or even a pelham with double reins or similar to just help you get her where you need her to be or try some training aids. When you are happy then you can change her back to a snaffle or take the training aids off and see how she is. Sometimes they need a little reminder of how to go.
Also just think forwards all the time, don't give her the time to stop and plant, as soon as you feel her hesitate, change the exercise and drive forwards.
 
I would not put a pelham or gag bit in her. if she is napping then it will encourage her to back off further and maybe rear. She sounds exactly like my horse was to school before he had is kissing spine operation, and interstingly I used exactly the same bits as you. He goes reallly nicely in a kk now is all phases but the spinning and bucking when schooling maybe because you are asking him to work over his back more?? My horse has always been good to hack but was terrible to school. Not only get a get a back man, but a vet. Apprantly it is quite common in horses and gets worse over time. My horse wasn't to bad until he got a bit fitter and I could barley ride him, so when the vet was out I asked him to check is back, then he went for x-rays etc. I had also bought a new saddle (and bridle) in case they were causing pain but continued to get worse. This is worse case scernrio but before you go balming your horse and sticking horrid bits in its mouth it may be best just to rule it out. (speaking from bitter experience here!)
 
Maybe pop her back in the french link if she seems happier in that & then try schooling her to get her lighter in front & taking her weight back onto her hocks more? It might just help solve the problem of her nose poking & get you back to where you were before the change of bit but make her less heavy in your hands?
As others have said it's always worth getting all the usual checks too!
As I know your mare a little bit I would agree that she's not one to be naughty for the sake of it, there's usually just cause, but she is a very sensitive mare isn't she?!
 
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Lila said:
If shes had her back checked and her teeth done then she sounds like she taking the mick?? Are you a confident rider? Maybe try her in a set of draw reins to bring her head down and make her use her back and hind a bit more? Souns like shes testing you?
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Cringe.

Agree with others, could her teeth need doing? Also, could the new saddle be the problem?

She may be worse in the school because it is harder work than in a straight line out hacking- you are asking the horse to bend and carry more weight on inside. She may therefore be restricted by the saddle more in the school and/or your contact may cause a problem if her teeth need doing.

If she is leaning on the bit because she is on her forehand then changing the bit wont help- she just needs time to get stronger and be able to carry herself better.

Is the kk a single joint? If so, thats the cause of the nose poking- the joint is digging into her palate and/or pinching the tongue.
 
Sarah1 said:
As I know your mare a little bit I would agree that she's not one to be naughty for the sake of it, there's usually just cause, but she is a very sensitive mare isn't she?!
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Most of the time there is cause with any horse, the hard bit is working out what! :)
 
I think she's trying to tell you something.

School work and hacking will effect them differently, just because a horse is ok out hacking, doesn’t mean to say there will not be in any discomfort (no matter how little) when schooling, it could be just the slightest of things that could be niggling her when your riding her in the school but then makes either a huge fuss over it or tries to relieve themselves from it by going differently, even something as simple as different surface, working on circles etc could make the problem flare up.

I would checking everything and then double checking it again until you find out what it is.
 
To add to teddyt's very sound point that bitting and saddle issues often cause more problems when schooling for very basic, mechanical reasons, there can also be a mental element to it. If your horse enjoys hacking she might be more tolerant of discomfort (after all, if something is bugging her she's already shown tolerance by getting gradually worse not turning you into a lawn dart the first day ;) ) in the way you might feel "better" when you have a cold if you're out with friends for a nice walk, vs sitting at school/work having to think a lot.

In addition to the back and teeth, what about having an instructor look at the situation and have a sit on her? Another eye, especially an experience one, might be able to pick up something subtle and suggest a beneficial change.
 
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