Bit/Bitless.

[jaspejoo]

I recently made the change to riding pony in a hackamore for hacking and jumping, and he really loves it and goes 100% better in it, however, when dressage schooling, I have noticed a massive change in his attitude towards his snaffle.
Firstly, he seems to have forgotten how to work in a proper outline with his bit in, and just argues and ignores what you are asking for, and it seems that no matter how much hand or leg you use, he just ignores you. Its almost like he has "forgotten" how to work in a bit.

Secondly, he is really ignorant to you trying to slow him down from canter to trot and just yanks me forward.

Lastly, he pulls the reins out of my hands in walk when trying to ask him to soften through his neck.

I feel like i'm taking 30 steps back each time i sit on him to school. Has anybody else noticed any changes like these when they changed to bitless?

 

[horsey_jo]

Can he be ridden into an outline with his bitless?

I rode my horse everywhere in a Dr Cooks bitless but would occassionally school in a snaffle just to keep him accepting of it.
One thing I did realise with this is I had to be SO AWARE that he was bitted... the signals to a bitless are duller than that of a standard bridle and I had to ride a lot 'softer' than I did in the bitless.

Regardless of this he did always protest at first at being bitted. I think he thought he was being punished in some way and, like your horse, would pull the reins through my hands and go about with his arabby nose in the air. I used to hack him out for a little while in it when I could just to try and get him to relax into it again. I suggest that maybe you mix it up a bit - do some 'fun' things in your snaffle as well

But this might just be me. I am aware that a hackamore will be different to a Dr Cooks.

Good luck with him though - I am glad that he is clearly so happy bitless.

My horse always rode a better dressage test bitless. I used to compete HC with a bitless sometimes just to see and he was always so much softer and relaxed.

 

[Jennyharvey]

I recently made the change to riding pony in a hackamore for hacking and jumping, and he really loves it and goes 100% better in it, however, when dressage schooling, I have noticed a massive change in his attitude towards his snaffle.
Firstly, he seems to have forgotten how to work in a proper outline with his bit in, and just argues and ignores what you are asking for, and it seems that no matter how much hand or leg you use, he just ignores you. Its almost like he has "forgotten" how to work in a bit.

Secondly, he is really ignorant to you trying to slow him down from canter to trot and just yanks me forward.

Lastly, he pulls the reins out of my hands in walk when trying to ask him to soften through his neck.

I feel like i'm taking 30 steps back each time i sit on him to school. Has anybody else noticed any changes like these when they changed to bitless?

I think it sounds like your trying to hard to get him onto the bit with your hands. Your hands should provide the contact for the horse to find, not to make him accept the bit.
You might just need to take your horse back a few steps and remind him what the aids mean. And you want to teach the horse to come off the pressure, instead of leaning into it. Lots of walk to halt transitions, using your voice and seat, then the reins, to teach him to soften to the bit. If he tries to take the reins away, what can help is to fix your hands on the saddle, so that he cant pull your hands forward. All he will be doing is pulling on himself, but release him as soon as he softens. What you want to do is block him, instead of pull on him, so soon he realises its easier to stay soft than pull on the rein.
When he softens, release the contact and reward him, so that he gets the idea. Incorperate backup too, as this helps to get the horse lighter in front and softer on the rein. Just because the horse goes well in a bitless, doesnt mean that they will go as well bitted. He might just need reminded of what is expected of him when he is bitted, and just remember that light hands makes a light horse, and heavy hands makes a heavy horse. Either bitted or bitless.

 

[jaspejoo]

it's funny cuz its seems whatever i try with him, more leg, no hand, transitions etc, he just ignores it all....i try and ride him forward into my hand and he just runs off with his head in the air, then when i try and slow him with my hand, seat and voice, he snatches or just ignores me. i think i'm gonna get the lady back who brought him on to have a sit on him and do some propper schooling with him to get back to where he was. I love riding him bitless, but i almost regret it because of how he is now reacting to the bit. Ive even tried changing his noseband, saddle, hacking in it...but literally, its like he is ignoring me as if to say, well if i act up in this, all she will do is put me in that nice one with nothing in my mouth!...(well if horses can think in such a complex manor) Thanks for all your advice...i'll just keep working on getting him to ride into my hand etc, and maybe one day he will remember