Bit for very strong horse that leans

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bobster66

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Can anyone help with bitting advice for a big strong ISH that is prone to leaning and using his strength to tank off with me, especially when jumping? I had success for a while with a pelham and a martingale but now he has learn to lean on the straight bar mouthpiece. He doesn't like a kimblewick or a 3 ring, I have also tried a bombers gag and a ns verbindend gag, both of which were supposed to be for horses that lean but had no effect on him! He is well schooled and normally respon.sive and has had teeth, back and saddle checked recently. TIA
 
I used to ride a horse that would lean on you and tank off, we put him in a waterford snaffle and that seemed to work. The links make it hard for them to hang on to it.
I think you can get gag versions too if the snaffle isn't enough.
 
Personally I would go with a Waterford - after much experimenting the Waterford elevator works really well for our ISH.

Trying new bits can quickly get very expensive. Do check out the bit bank. Speak to the staff as they are very knowledgeable. You can then hire bits with the hire cost being deducted from the price if you buy. Much more cost effective than rushing out and buying loads that might not work!
 
I like my Myler Long Shank combination. A three in one bit.

I use them on all my Endurance horses. Good as they can be strong at the start but as the ride goes on they have settled so do not needs a stronger bit.
 
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A Waterford mouthpiece is a good idea, not much to lean on there :) Anything with a broken mouthpiece is hard to lean on, I think you can get waterfords with all sorts of rings if you need that bit of leverage.

Not sure I would recommend a hackamore for a leany horse, because if they lean on it, it lowers the head, putting them on the forehand, therefore more inclined to rush. I won't canter our young one in his (he had to have a bitless briefly when he injured his mouth) because he would totally tank off in it, and he's normally a light snaffle mouth!
 
I do like waterfords.
A friend has a really interesting combination bit but the name of it has escaped me, she used it on her eventer after he tried to tank off XC, worked a treat for him though without a name it's not much good!

I cannot personally recommend it as I have never tried this bit but I have always be fascinated by the wilson bradoon. Though it does seem relatively harsh and I've rarely seen one out and about in use, perhaps it's a bit out of date?

Neue Schule have some interesting bits, they've a waterford pelham which could be nice with sympathetic hands and have some interesting "jumper" bits too.
 
You could try a kineton noseband -doesn't come into effect until you need it. We have a big irish draught that leans and he's in a Waterford Cheltenham gag and kineton noseband -brilliant -he comes back really nicely
 
Have you tried a different way of applying the 'breaks'? If he leans you could try pull, release, pull, release - really exaggerated half halts so he has nothing to grab on to. If you hand on to the mouth they can lean and they can be running through the bit to get away from the discomfort. A horse will not soften if they have nothing to soften into... By applying a big half halt you can check the speed and as soon as you get a slight response then release. If he speeds up, check firmly again and release. The horse should soon cotton on that if they stop pulling/tanking, you stop hanging on their mouth. By doing it this way you are teaching the horse how to go in a softer contact, rather than increasing the contact. If he doesn't stop in a waterford where do you go from there?

When I was a teen I rode a highland who was a pain for being strong and leaning and his owner told me to 'drop' him as soon as he leaned. This made him carry his own weight and stop using me for balance. I suppose this is a bit like big half halts too...

Edited to add - I ride my sec D stallion with a double bridle (and two reins) using a double jointed hanging cheek and a hackamore. He sometimes objects to the bit (he is very recently broken and quite green) and I back up with the hackamore if needed.
 
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I have a gelding who likes to lean on the bit on XC and used to tank off when jumping. This is made all the more difficult by the fact he doesn't slow down to conventional seat aids thanks to his old owners.
I use this bit on him and he is like a different horse. http://www.stuebben.com/start.php?lg=gbgb&id=753&top=2&top2=182&ukat=770

He is still strong, but he no longer leans and is a lot more responsive than he was in any other bit I tried him in... pelhams, dutch gags, kimberwick, gags, waterford, thick bits, thick bits, mullen mouths, french link, egg but, steel, copper, rubber... you name it, it felt like I tried it. This was the only one that gave me the responsiveness I needed that he was happy with.
 
Fides said:
Have you tried a different way of applying the 'breaks'? If he leans you could try pull, release, pull, release - really exaggerated half halts so he has nothing to grab on to. If you hand on to the mouth they can lean and they can be running through the bit to get away from the discomfort. A horse will not soften if they have nothing to soften into... By applying a big half halt you can check the speed and as soon as you get a slight response then release. If he speeds up, check firmly again and release. The horse should soon cotton on that if they stop pulling/tanking, you stop hanging on their mouth. By doing it this way you are teaching the horse how to go in a softer contact, rather than increasing the contact. If he doesn't stop in a waterford where do you go from there?

When I was a teen I rode a highland who was a pain for being strong and leaning and his owner told me to 'drop' him as soon as he leaned. This made him carry his own weight and stop using me for balance. I suppose this is a bit like big half halts too...

Edited to add - I ride my sec D stallion with a double bridle (and two reins) using a double jointed hanging cheek and a hackamore. He sometimes objects to the bit (he is very recently broken and quite green) and I back up with the hackamore if needed.
Click to expand...

hi, thank you that is actually exactly the approach we have started working on trying to slow down his brain (he is a super bright horse who always tries to anticipate what you are going to ask him to do!!) and to get him to work more towards self carriage so he is not replying on me to hold him up. Unfortunately when we jump all this goes out the window as he gets so excited and he has such a huge jump that even if I can hold him into a fence he tends to get away from me on landing.........we are doing lots of polework etc to try to switch his brain off but I do need a way of holding him just so I am safe - last week he got away from me in the school in canter and literally went round the school about 40 times before I managed to pull him up - unfortunately I am not brave enough in that situation to just let go of the reins lol!!
 
NaeNae87 said:
I have a gelding who likes to lean on the bit on XC and used to tank off when jumping. This is made all the more difficult by the fact he doesn't slow down to conventional seat aids thanks to his old owners.
I use this bit on him and he is like a different horse. http://www.stuebben.com/start.php?lg=gbgb&id=753&top=2&top2=182&ukat=770

He is still strong, but he no longer leans and is a lot more responsive than he was in any other bit I tried him in... pelhams, dutch gags, kimberwick, gags, waterford, thick bits, thick bits, mullen mouths, french link, egg but, steel, copper, rubber... you name it, it felt like I tried it. This was the only one that gave me the responsiveness I needed that he was happy with.
Click to expand...

thank you, that looks brilliant, he was great in a pelham until he learnt to lean on the mullen mouth!! - unfortunately it only seems to go up to 5.25"? he takes 5.75"
 
spacefaer said:
You could try a kineton noseband -doesn't come into effect until you need it. We have a big irish draught that leans and he's in a Waterford Cheltenham gag and kineton noseband -brilliant -he comes back really nicely
Click to expand...

thank you, I am actually going to try and find a kineton noseband to try - they don't seem that easy to get hold of though!!
 
Pigeon said:
A Waterford mouthpiece is a good idea, not much to lean on there :) Anything with a broken mouthpiece is hard to lean on, I think you can get waterfords with all sorts of rings if you need that bit of leverage.

Not sure I would recommend a hackamore for a leany horse, because if they lean on it, it lowers the head, putting them on the forehand, therefore more inclined to rush. I won't canter our young one in his (he had to have a bitless briefly when he injured his mouth) because he would totally tank off in it, and he's normally a light snaffle mouth!
Click to expand...

thank you that is good to know, looks like a waterford might be better then, I certainly don't want to put him any more on the forehand lol!!!
 
I ride a 17.2 ISH, who is VERY strong and young so leans awfully. For hunting he is in a waterford snaffle, and it works wonders - just check him slightly and he comes back to me plus he can't lean.

For schooling/hacking he is in a copper rollerball full cheek snaffle, which also helps a lot with the leaning.
 
Fides said:
Have you tried a different way of applying the 'breaks'? If he leans you could try pull, release, pull, release - really exaggerated half halts so he has nothing to grab on to. If you hand on to the mouth they can lean and they can be running through the bit to get away from the discomfort. A horse will not soften if they have nothing to soften into... By applying a big half halt you can check the speed and as soon as you get a slight response then release. If he speeds up, check firmly again and release. The horse should soon cotton on that if they stop pulling/tanking, you stop hanging on their mouth. By doing it this way you are teaching the horse how to go in a softer contact, rather than increasing the contact. If he doesn't stop in a waterford where do you go from there?

When I was a teen I rode a highland who was a pain for being strong and leaning and his owner told me to 'drop' him as soon as he leaned. This made him carry his own weight and stop using me for balance. I suppose this is a bit like big half halts too...

Edited to add - I ride my sec D stallion with a double bridle (and two reins) using a double jointed hanging cheek and a hackamore. He sometimes objects to the bit (he is very recently broken and quite green) and I back up with the hackamore if needed.
Click to expand...

Dropping the contact doesn't work for horses who are comfortable to go with head on floor. Dropping contact on mine does not unbalance her in the slightest!
 
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