Bit Help Please (sorry long)

G

Gorgeous George

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 April 2007
Messages
6,268
Location
Essex
Visit site
I am beginning to despair of ever finding a bit to school in that George is happy and settled with. Whatever I try he either protests straight away :(, or he goes well in it for 2 or 3 sessions but then decides to go back to leaning, not wanting to bend/flex, chomping on the bit and so on. It is so frustrating because for those 2 or 3 sessions he is such a joy and I realise he can do it, and perhaps I’m not such an awful rider after all – but then back we go!

When we go to dressage comps we either use a mullen mouth loose ring snaffle or a mullen mouth hanging cheek which he goes well in and we don’t do too badly (only unaffiliated prelim mind you), but if I rode for the rest of the week in the same bit we would be back to square one.

When I hack and jump I use a mullen mouth dutch gag with roundings and this works well, but I have tried schooling in it and it is a bit ‘blunt’ – probably because of the roundings, but it really suits him for jumping and hacking :)

Our latest schooling trial was with a straight bar ported kimblewick with an elastic curb (ok, a slightly odd choice for schooling!), I nearly cried with joy the first time I schooled him in it as he was like a different horse :). He bent/flexed nicely, his canter felt lovely and balanced and to me he felt like he was using his back end, also transitions (of which we do a lot every session) were just great, popping into canter :). The next 2 sessions he was the same and despite previous experience I really thought we’d cracked it as he felt so different, but on Sunday he went well in walk and trot, but when I asked for canter he was fighting for his head and trying to charge off and then we had the same again yesterday :(.

So other than changing the bit every 3 days can anyone help / offer suggestions?? For info his back, saddle and teeth are all fine, he is also a hefty chap being a 16.3 shire x – so a lot of horse to hold together, I am also a pretty average rider.

The bit doesn’t need to be dressage legal I just want something for schooling that he is comfortable, and of course I know the bit isn’t a quick fix, but it’s hard to concentrate on transitions and movements when he isn’t happy.

Thanks and cookies if you’ve got this far! :)
 
i'm presuming teeth done recently, back and saddle checked ;) (ETA - sorry missed that bit :o ok - so we can rule them out :))

do you have regular lessons - in which case what does your RI suggest?
and if not - might be worth having a few so someone can watch him and you from the ground/maybe try him to see if its a schooling issue...sounds v much like my mare when i started out with her - a good RI sorted us ;)

back to bits - from his description it sounds like he'll have a fleshy mouth - have you tried a tounge saver type bit?
 
I'd be inclined to think it is more of an issue with his way of working than the bit he has.

Alot of what you say sounds v similar to my mare who likes v much to work on the forehand. When she is working nicely she is light in the hand, supple, relaxed, excellent brakes and a joy to ride. When she isn't (ahem, rather alot of the time - although with new dressage man we are def getting there!) it is like trying to manouver a tanker, stiff necked, no brakes or steering, slow off the leg etc.

I always try and make our transitions snappy (up and down), if I squeeze with my leg and no reaction then she gets a flick with a schooling whip - every time. If she is having a lazy session then she catches on v quick this way! You can't get him working from behind if he isn't responsive to your leg. Don't try and hold him up or together - you can't do it so don't try other wise you are just offering him a nice comfy prop, while pulling your arms out of their sockets! If you feel him going to lean then make sure he is going well and forwards and give a quick half halt with your outside rein (always in conjunction with leg on). V different to sawing!! Circles and serpentines are your friends! Make sure he doesn't loose omph on the turns. Don't nag with your leg though, ask once, then back up with your schooing whip - very black and white. If he is getting a bit stuffy then it can help to really send them on in trot down the long side.

Until he learns to carry himself and learns that this is the only way to go then any bit will leave you with a bit of a heavy lump on the end of it after a few sessions (when he has worked out it isn't much different from the last one and won't bite!).

Have you tried anything with more movement in it? My mare is def better in a shaped french link lozenge than a straight bar. If he has a large tongue then a std french link can give alot of tongue pressure which some dislike (my mare hated it and was a nightmare in it as she was so uncomfortable, we ditched it asap), but you can get them with a shaped mouthpiece which gives movememt but enough space for the tongue too. These are just fab http://cotswoldsport.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=467
 
My mare goes really well in her loose ring waterford. She tended to lean and be on her forehand and it changed all that. We hack out in it too, she seems really happy in it.
 
hmm have you tried a different type of metal for the mouthpiece - neue scheule or kk make ones which encourage the horse to soften.

I have used a couple of kk aurigan mouthpieces and found my horse settles in these well. The hanging cheek helps a bit with the becoming softer and I have found my horse has started popping into canter rather than fighting and running through the bridle with this style of bit but only with the aurigan metal rather than stainless steel!
 
Sometimes though horses will have the odd few days where they won't go as well as they perhaps did in a previous schooling session when they have worked quite hard or perhaps not used to working in a relaxed and correct outline, it could be his way of saying ''mum this feel like too much hard work for me, I aint trying no more'' kinda thing, sometimes (providing they are sound, like you have checked) you've just got to stick with it and work them through it (despite it being quite hard at times), but in easy stages so you keep him sweet and reduce the chances of any sore muscles the next day, if you keep changing his bit when he gives in (although I'm not suggesting that this is what you are doing...but if you are), he'll never really learn to accept what you are wanting him, accept the bit and basically teach him to carry himself and slog his own back side round the school, rather than you doing all the work once he gives in, do you see what I'm saying? or have you already tried what I'm rattleing on about? :D
 
Agree with everything ThePony said - I'm inclined to think it's a schooling issue in the main.

Bit-wise you could try a waterford snaffle in the short term as it will help prevent him from leaning but in the long term, he has to learn to hold himself up and not expect you to do it.

You could also try a straight bar pelham with 2 reins.
 
I also agree with what ThePony has said, I have two cobs who find schooling hard work as they are inclined to go on the forehand. My instructor makes me ride without using the reins her quote is 'reins are for shaping' the horse has to learn to balance itself. We do lots of figures of eight without reins (reins not allowed for steering!) and as thePony said lots of transitions.

I am currently riding my horse in a Myler Comfort Snaffle and she seems very happy in this - I know they are expensive (I managed to get one second hand) but wouldnow pay for one as I think they are worth it.
 
Try a myler mullen barrel(no: 32 I think) - it is dressage legal and I have had great success with loads of different types of horses but especially the heavier types.
They almost seem to go 'O I get it now' and many of the horses whose owners I teach have been amazed at the difference. There also does not seem to be a 'it will work for 3 days and is then back to square one' phase.
Whilst I agree with the schooling thoughts of others, it can be darned difficult sorting out that aspect if the mouth has attitude!
Try and hire before you buy, I tend to buy the next size down in myler as they are generous so if you have a 6 normally go for a 5 1/2.
Good luck
Bryndu
 
I also agree with The pony. My mare was great at leaning I changed bits fairly often but always went back to a loose ring with a losenge in the middle. I found a 3 ring gag with the same mouth piece and sometimes would do the odd flatwork session in that with 2 reins so I could put more or less pressure when needed. Then would go back to the snaffle.
But the best thing I ever did was find a dressage instructor that I really liked. She gave me loads of exercises to help and sorted out my position. I tended to sit more to one side and viola you get a one sided horse.
Exercises like rein back to canter really put her on her hocks and plenty of transistions within a pace. Great one was as I turned up the center line giving her a quick flick with the schooling whip encouraged her to engage her quarters more. My instructor rode her for 10 mins on one of my lessons and when I got back on she felt like a different horse. It was great because it made me realise my horse could carry herself I just had to show her how.
 
Thanks all for your replies, I do have lessons but I can only afford one once a fortnight or once a month sometimes - but we do seem to have got stuck with this particular issue.

I have got a mullen mouth myler, so I will maybe give that a go and try to forget about what his head and neck are doing when I'm schooling and concentrate on getting him working from behind and if I can keep that up see if it helps - do you think it will take a long time before I see any improvement?

Some advice I have been given is to lunge him in tight side reins first so he knows what is expected of him and then get on and he should submit - but to me that seems completely wrong, I want him to go nicely willingly, or am I just being soft?
 
When you ride your boy, go a bit slower in each pace than you would normally, he obviously seems to have no forwards issues, but possibly a fast issue?
Going a little slower will make him concentrate on his own balance instead of leaning on you, you can always be more forward when balance is sorted.
Also, in the myler mullen barrel, get your reins to a comfortable length to trot from and put the reins together at the top of his withers, so you put him in a mode which would be similar to the arms from a carriage (I can't remember what they are called!), so he has to move forwards without bending his head and neck too much. He seems like he can bend but may have straightline issues.
As the myler acts independently you will be able to turn him by just turning your body and the inside rein, whilst allowing with the outside.
Gradually, when all is going well, move your hands slightly apart and aim to keep the little barrel in the centre of the myler in the middle of his tongue, so he is still straight. If he is not quite ready go back to the wither position and try again.
Best of luck
 
Gorgeous George said:
Some advice I have been given is to lunge him in tight side reins first so he knows what is expected of him and then get on and he should submit - but to me that seems completely wrong, I want him to go nicely willingly, or am I just being soft?
Click to expand...

Can I ask who gave you that advice? If it was your instructor then I think I'd be looking for a new one! You aren't soft, I want my horse to go willingly as well, not because his head is being forced in. However, maybe he would benefit from lunging with the draw rein setup that is often talked about on here (do a search, you should find it), though no one can tell you that for sure via the internet.

If you have become "stuck" on this bitting/ schooling issue and you don't feel your schooling is improving then it might be worth trying a different instructor. There is no shame in trying someone else if your current instructor has run out of ideas. Sometimes a different pair of eyes is just what is needed, as a new person won't be used to seeing things.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top